VRS 4X4 Haldex/ transmission noise?!

[thomas5265]

Update - collected the car on Saturday morning and all seemed ok until I drove on the motorway today. There is now a strange whine/ humming noise most noticeable between 65-75mph but always there.

 

I went out on a roadtest with the master tech (who I completely trust BTW), he acknowledged the issue and it's now booked back in AGAIN for Thursday/ Friday this week!! Tearing my hair out now!!

 

This can't be acceptable on a 16 plate 8000 mile car surely!?!

 

I have spoken to sales manager and asked whether anything can be done in terms of replacing the vehicle with another one and they are prepared to look into it but have asked if i'd consider a Scout instead of a VRS (basically because they have a few in stock).

 

Should I really be demanding like for like (another VRS estate)?

[Ootohere]

Was no consideration given to trying 4 standard wheels and tyres on to see what the noise was like then?

[thomas5265]

Was no consideration given to trying 4 standard wheels and tyres on to see what the noise was like then?

It has been tried with summer tyres 

[thomas5265]

The other option is they've offered me a non 4x4 VRS DSG plus some cash back. What should I do?

I could still see whether the garage get to the bottom of the issue but the technician seems as confused as me!!

[pist0nbr0ke]

Ask if you could use a Scout with the same engine as yours whilst they attempt to fix your car? Then if it drags on, and you like the Scout, do a deal? I appreciate you may not end up with the options you want, but think you'll regret going back on the 4x4. The Scout just might hold it's value better, although it's a bit unknown how the 4x4 will perform on resale, I'm hoping it may be reasonable due to rarity.

Thankfully my 4x4 vRS is not making any strange noises, 10000 miles in.

[thomas5265]

It's unfortunate really that my car has such a high spec (Columbus, winter pack, park assist etc....) because it's going to be very difficult to replace it with something similar! I just wonder if the Scout is abit 'OAP'!? ???? They have a 4x4 VRS hatch but it has no extras on it. What do people think of the hatch?

[turbotaxi]

Does the scout have the same drive train as the vrs?. If so, could it not be a case of potentially the same problems. Vrs will be under warranty so just give it back to the dealer every time the diff or whatever defective part starts playing it's tune.

[thomas5265]

The issue is that the dealer, despite trying, are so far failing to rectify the problem. As a result I'm getting incredibly frustrated!!! ???????? I've told them they can have one more attempt at diagnosing and repair (this Thu/ Fri) and if unsuccessful I want a like for like replacement.

I bought the car cash and was planning to keep it for 4 years or more so don't really want continuous issues for that length of time!

[Cymru Blackline]

Changed my 2WD vRS for a 4WD vRS, expecting it to be a bit noisier due to the extra rotating parts, as with most 4WD vehicles.

(As far as I'm aware with Haldex systems, the 2 x propshafts running from front to back of the car, spin to the back axle all the time, but don't actually engage drive to the rear wheels until the electro/hydraulic unit on the back axle senses slip. So you still have more rotating parts even when in 2WD nominally).

 

But in fact, my 4WD vRS is somehow quieter than my previous 2WD !? and has now done 11000 miles. It's the DSG box sluggishness and noise which usually annoy me, especially when you're trying to go a bit quick.

 

 

I did have a high mileage 2006 VW 2.0 TDI Golf 4-motion, with an older version of the Haldex system, so Haldex issues I had with it if it helps, were (but check the more normal problems like wheel balance/damage, tyres sawtoothing, brakes etc 1st) :- 

 

1) Vibrating/judder when accelerating, getting worse over time - known issue with rubber 'doughnut' drive coupling on propshafts.

2) Vibration/judder a bit like wheel balance - propshafts are balanced and need to be re-fitted in the same alignment they came off. Or sometimes need re-balancing.

3) Traction control light constantly on - after checking normal ABS bits, etc, turned out to be faulty Haldex rear electro/hydraulic control unit. Not cheap !

4) When they were diagnosing my ABS light, they did look at the rear diff, which showed some wear. But I ran it for another 40000 miles with no issues.

With that bit of wear though, it always had that sort of rear axle/pinion bearing whine when you lifted your floor off the throttle.

 

Anyway, sorry for going off in to much detail. Hope you get it sorted as they're pretty good all season cars - even better if they start doing them with a manual gearbox !

[thomas5265]

Thanks! The original issue was noise when lifting foot off the throttle (at mortorway speeds). That noise has been cured by fitting a new rear diff. However, now what I've got is a whine when accelerating, more noticeable at higher speeds, but it is there all the time if you listen. Definitely coming from the rear.

[pist0nbr0ke]

Is it worth running it for a few thousand miles, or drive one with a few thousand on, to see if it's newness and will quieten down once run in? Just a thought.

Not that I can remember any strange noises with mine at all.

[thomas5265]

It's done 8.5k now and as I say, every time they have a fiddle with it, the noises change! ????

[AndyO2]

It's unfortunate really that my car has such a high spec (Columbus, winter pack, park assist etc....) because it's going to be very difficult to replace it with something similar! I just wonder if the Scout is abit 'OAP'!? ???? They have a 4x4 VRS hatch but it has no extras on it. What do people think of the hatch?

I suspect you've answered your own question - I've gone from a MK2 hatch to a MK3 Estate, had always preferred the estate so found the hatch a compromise - don't like the looks as much, found getting a roof rack on a hassle etc. This is a purely personal thing - lots of people prefer hatches & would not be seen dead driving an estate. You would also miss the options - on that first frosty morning.

If you can get the issue fixed, would you have confidence in the repair & stop worrying about the history?

If you've not already, then consider getting Skoda UK involved (escalation, gives you more options). Consider getting Skoda UK to set up a conference call with yourself & the dealer to review what they are doing, and timescales, push them to explain how they will fix to your satisfaction, reduce the impact to yourself (dealer collect car & deliver appropriate courtesy car to location to suit you etc). It sounds likethe dealership are guessing what is wrong & replacing components to see if this fixes it, as this may be cheaper & easier than diagnosing - can they change the approach / send to third party for diagnosis, will they cover the costs of you arranging this & provide courtesy car for you?

 

Also consider what you would like:

a) as compensation for the hassle caused, trips to the dealer, chasing etc. (cheque, extended warranty, service etc?) if the issue is fixed

b ) if the issues are not corrected - at present you probably won't get a 4x4 estate with those options and that colour as they are not being made, though the dealer should be able to check UK stock etc.

There are lots of owners who are happy with their 4x4 vRS as it has no issues (myself included @ 5k miles, ignoring some errors reported through VCDS! - this is not the right thread...).

 

Given you trust the lead mechanic & the dealership are owning the issue, you are in a fairly good place - these cars are robust, sadly you've got a significant issue - the important thing now is how it is resolved to your satisfaction. If I were in your position I think I'd be fuming - but would hate to back myself into compromising at short notice into a different vehicle (especially after than 3+ month wait).

 

Good luck - and please update with progress.

Edited 17 January, 2017 by AndyO2

[thomas5265]

Soooo.......

After my car being at the dealer since last Thursday, I have an update!

skoda Technical advised the dealer to try the car on another set of wheels/ tyres (which seems laughable, seen as though the car has already had the diff replaced twice!!)

Surprise surprise that hasn't rectified the issue.

The technician at the dealer has now decided to take a prop shaft off another Octavia and fit that to my car.......,

So I guess I'll have another update tomorrow as to whether that has made any difference.

Turning out to be THE WORST car I have ever bought (and I've had a lot of cars!).

[furn]

im feeling your pain i got rid of my last car insignia vxr because of ongoing haldex issues, they really are a complex piece of kit and trying to diagnose the problems are quite tough, also expensive the haldex probably costs around 2.5k not something you want problems with without a warranty.

Many people mistake the haldex for the diff when they are 2 seperate items , the haldex through a set of wet clutch plates controls how much drive goes to the rear diff. in normal running not very much drive is sent to the rear wheels only once the front wheels loose traction does the haldex controlled by the haldex ecu send drive to the rear diff.

you should should be able to unplug the haldex it will put a fault light on the dash but the car will drive front wheel drive only, the prop shaft will still be turning  but not driving anything , this could be tried to see if the noise is still there. possibly pointing towards the prop shaft.

other thing could be the actual rear diff itself.

Fantastic bits of kit when they are working correct but a pain when they arent, these problems seem to come up in most cars that have haldex 4wd systems which these days is quite alot.

[thomas5265]

I decided to call into the dealership on my way home this afternoon.

 

I spoke directly with the technician who has been working on my vehicle and he told me the following info:

 

They removed a prop shaft from a brand new Octavia Scout and fitted it to my car - this made no difference to the issue.

 

He also told me that when he disables the Haldex system (presumably by pulling the fuse??) and drives the car in front wheel drive only mode then the problem disappears.

 

Sooooo....... tomorrow's task is to remove the rear differential from the brand new Scout and fit that to my car. That will then be the FOURTH rear diff that has been fitted to my vehicle since new!!!

 

He is also going to remove the exhaust from the Scout and fit that to my car!?

 

Starting to lose the will to live!!!!!

 

From a dealers point of view - I have asked what they can do in terms of replacement vehicle and they are telling me that currently SKODA UK do not have any 4x4 VRS estates available.

 

When I asked them if they'd buy the vehicle back from me they didn't want to comment or give any indication as to what price they might give me!!

 

This is turning out to be a lesson badly learnt, don't buy a car with cash!!! From a consumers point of view, you seem to be in a much stronger position if you purchase your car on finance!

 

I'm still wondering if I should just cut my losses and run?? 

 

Webuyanycar is putting £19000 on my car, I paid around £24000 for it.

 

So should I just swallow the 5k loss and move on??

 

Oppinions please???

[furn]

surely not all the units are faulty the fact that the noise comes at 65-70 to me points away from the haldex diff etc and to possibly the rear drive shafts etc, with all the on and offs of the diff has one got damaged not seated correctly. ask them to try the rear drive shafts from the scout as well to see if it makes a difference

The dealer seems to be having a good go at sorting it out maybe give them a bit more time, depends on how much you really want 4wd.

I miss it i really do this time of year its brilliant i hate wheelspin.

Edited 24 January, 2017 by furn

[thomas5265]

I'll mention this to them tomorrow!

[thomas5265]

The technician thinks it's the rear diff unit as each time it's been changed, the sound has changed also! 

[furn]

Yes but every time the diff gets changed the rear drive shafts need taking and putting back in again same as the prop shaft if they arent aligned or balanced properly you will get some sort of noise coming from them. the noise might not be apparent until you hit a certain speed etc like what you seem to have now.

 

i really hope you get it sorted mate.

like i said its a tough one ive read so much about this topic when i had my insignia vxr from different people and different garages.

[thomas5265]

I just phoned the garage. Still no good news! They changed the exhaust today (just to eliminate it) and that made no difference.

 

So tomorrow they will remove the diff and rear drive shafts from the donor Scout and fit to mine. The master technician there has said that this is the final thing.

 

He has spent in excess of 40 hours working on my car, alot of which he will not get paid for through warranty. He's a really decent chap and clearly wants to get to the bottom of the issue, for his own sanity, if nothing else!!

 

He says there is nothing else it can be, so if tomorrow doesn't fix it then we're stuck!!

 

Keeping everything crossed!

[furn]

fingers crossed for you hopefully it gets sorted

[Adcooper]

From what my local dealer said last weekend there are defiantly no more VRS 4x4 estates left unregistered only the one I had, hopefully they get it sorted for you soon 

[thomas5265]

I wouldn't be expecting a brand new replacement as mine was 6 months old when I bought it. There are plenty of used ones on auto trader but they are not at the dealer where I purchased mine!

[Ootohere]

Not to worry as Skoda UK the Warranty Provider will be able to find a 'Management Car' in the UK.

The Dealership should have already been in touch and arranging a suitable replacement vehicle and recompense for your out of pocket expenses.