EA288 Euro 5 to Euro 6

 

Anyone know for sure how VAG managed this.

 

I am beginning to think that this could be at the root of widely varying reports of DPF regen behaviour regarding the EA288

Me too. Same feelings here. That's why I also feel little more confident about the filter. I think they force on fixed interval in town and outside town driving - no matter the soot levels.

Between the introduction of Euro 6 Emissions from the Euro 5 in 2009 you have VW Group engines (software / engine management)

that are 5.5 in preparation for Euro 6.

Also, how have the petrol engines coped with those Euro changes?

Also, how have the petrol engines coped with those Euro changes?

According to this:

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/car-news/consumer-news/90816/euro-6-emissions-standards-what-do-they-mean-for-you

 

No real change for petrol

Late 2015 after the VW Defeat Device Scandal broke there was the 'Co2 Irregularities Investigation' into VW Group Euro 6 Emissions vehicles.

That then meant that there were some Petrol & Diesel VW Group engines in VW, Audi & SEATS's with 'Implausible Co2 Results.

VW Group had some that had errors EU Testing Results and then had to Suspend some Sales & Leasing until the VED Classes were 'readjusted', or as it was increased.,

Some vehicles were actually Repurchased by the VW Group.

 

It gets lost in the whole Euro 5 Scandal of Cheats & Lies, but it is there to be found in  AutoCar, Autoexpress etc, 

but the VW Group did manage to spin the 'MISTAKES' in Testing quite well.

Edited 8 January, 20179 yr by Offski

You are spot on octy0gg, the current, "compliant" diesel operating system in use in the Octavia III relies in on rigorously used EGR system with the recirculation of both "clean" low pressure exhaust (post DPF sourced) together with "dirty" high pressure/temp gasses directly from the manifold.

 

This appears to be the only NOx reduction process used by VW in the UK. In my opinion, they should be looking at both AdBlue together with the Oleys? additive as used by the French to sort out this problem.

 

With this "enhanced" or "overworked" EGR system, there must be an enormous amount of soot to be processed by the DPF with a significantly higher and parasitic demand for diesel to combust all this carbon. Is this why we are getting a great deal less than the brochure published mpg figures?

 

I have recently changed my 59 Mk II 1.6Tdi Octavia Greenline for a 66 Mk III equivalent. Previously my old car hardly ever performed an active regen, travelling on a 10 mile route at 60 seemed an ideal journey to keep the DPF passively clean. With the new car, it performs active regens randomly and sometimes bizarrely when fully warmed up, approaching home.

 

What has changed? The route is the same. The driving style is unchanged, the only change is the way the EGR system is abused!

 

I think there is case for a class action legal procedure to be pursued by Octavia Mk III diesel owners against Skoda/VW into why we are getting no where close to their published figures!

 

What do you think?

 

I can only suggest that these were obtained by not only having a "random"? car on a rolling  road (no air resistance) but a vehicle devoid of both EGR and DPF systems?

You get less than the Brochure Published MPG figures if you do because you are taking a vehicle out of a temperature controlled building and filling with fuel, 

maybe weigh more than 60 kg and take in passengers / luggage and have options fitted.

 

The Brochure does not say anything about EU test results being as maybe achieved as real world MPG's, nor do the Skoda, SEAT,Audi or VW Fuel Statements..

http://skoda.co.uk/pages/fuel-consumption-statement.aspx

Edited 8 January, 20179 yr by Offski

Further to my previous post, what I should have also mentioned is the major problem on the horizon, blockage of the inlet manifold. What I have noticed on my new car is the welded up monstrosity bolted onto the front of the engine containing the charge air cooler. how long will it be until the benefit of a turbo charger will be completely negated due to excessive carbon build up?

 

Now would have been a good opportunity for VW to have fitted cleaning access ports and offered this service as part of the routine maintenance, to inject cleaning chemicals into the manifold and exhaust system to keep everything nice and clean, (such as Hydrogen (if this really works)).

 

Seems to me that VW has been concentrating all their effort on dodging criticism and mitigating legal damages and have taken there eye off the goal of designing super diesels. Result is going to be the death of diesel engines in passenger cars.

You are spot on octy0gg, the current, "compliant" diesel operating system in use in the Octavia III relies in on rigorously used EGR system with the recirculation of both "clean" low pressure exhaust (post DPF sourced) together with "dirty" high pressure/temp gasses directly from the manifold.

 

This appears to be the only NOx reduction process used by VW in the UK. In my opinion, they should be looking at both AdBlue together with the Oleys? additive as used by the French to sort out this problem.

 

With this "enhanced" or "overworked" EGR system, there must be an enormous amount of soot to be processed by the DPF with a significantly higher and parasitic demand for diesel to combust all this carbon. Is this why we are getting a great deal less than the brochure published mpg figures?

 

I have recently changed my 59 Mk II 1.6Tdi Octavia Greenline for a 66 Mk III equivalent. Previously my old car hardly ever performed an active regen, travelling on a 10 mile route at 60 seemed an ideal journey to keep the DPF passively clean. With the new car, it performs active regens randomly and sometimes bizarrely when fully warmed up, approaching home.

 

What has changed? The route is the same. The driving style is unchanged, the only change is the way the EGR system is abused!

 

I think there is case for a class action legal procedure to be pursued by Octavia Mk III diesel owners against Skoda/VW into why we are getting no where close to their published figures!

 

What do you think?

 

I can only suggest that these were obtained by not only having a "random"? car on a rolling  road (no air resistance) but a vehicle devoid of both EGR and DPF systems?

Not good.

I had an even bigger adjustment as I went from a 1.9 PD Octavia 2 (no dpf) to a Euro 6 2.0 TDI  Octavia 3, disliked all the regens so much I gave up on it took the financial hit and quickly changed to a 1.4 SE Sport - And I'm someone who usually keeps cars a good while.

As I've said elsewhere the petrol is not all good news - fuel consumption and lack of low down torque.

Hope they get the diesels sorted out soon as I would like to return to diesel in a few years time.

Further to my previous post, what I should have also mentioned is the major problem on the horizon, blockage of the inlet manifold. What I have noticed on my new car is the welded up monstrosity bolted onto the front of the engine containing the charge air cooler. how long will it be until the benefit of a turbo charger will be completely negated due to excessive carbon build up?

 

Now would have been a good opportunity for VW to have fitted cleaning access ports and offered this service as part of the routine maintenance, to inject cleaning chemicals into the manifold and exhaust system to keep everything nice and clean, (such as Hydrogen (if this really works)).

 

Seems to me that VW has been concentrating all their effort on dodging criticism and mitigating legal damages and have taken there eye off the goal of designing super diesels. Result is going to be the death of diesel engines in passenger cars.

The dirty high pressure egr enters the inlet manifold after the charge cooler, there is a passage after cylinder 4 in the head that joins the exhaust and inlet manifolds the high pressure egr valve is on the inlet side of the head. The low pressure egr is taken from the clean side of the dpf so no soot to block things up.

This dirty, soot laden high pressure exhaust is still being directed back into the engine where some of this soot is going to be deposited in the induction throat upstream of the inlet valves. What facilities have VW built into the induction system to periodically remove this deposit.......none!

 

How long will it take to clog up sufficiently, to impact on performance, 20,000 miles?  What engineering company worth it's salt would design an engine with this built in disaster? How much will it cost to get your car engine "decoked" at the dealer?   I suggest an additional  £4000? at every service and with half the bodywork to be removed before you can even get near it?

 

Back in the thirties up to the fifties, this was routine maintenance required by every motorist and was considered to be part of the joys of motoring. Only then, this job could be completed easily in a couple of hours by the owner himself with a few open ended spanners and a new side valve head gasket. Further more, there was plenty of access room around the engine to do the job unlike today?

 

Have we learnt anything from the past? Are we going to put up with this nonsense?

This dirty, soot laden high pressure exhaust is still being directed back into the engine where some of this soot is going to be deposited in the induction throat upstream of the inlet valves. What facilities have VW built into the induction system to periodically remove this deposit.......none!

 

How long will it take to clog up sufficiently, to impact on performance, 20,000 miles?  What engineering company worth it's salt would design an engine with this built in disaster? How much will it cost to get your car engine "decoked" at the dealer?   I suggest an additional  £4000? at every service and with half the bodywork to be removed before you can even get near it?

 

Back in the thirties up to the fifties, this was routine maintenance required by every motorist and was considered to be part of the joys of motoring. Only then, this job could be completed easily in a couple of hours by the owner himself with a few open ended spanners and a new side valve head gasket. Further more, there was plenty of access room around the engine to do the job unlike today?

 

Have we learnt anything from the past? Are we going to put up with this nonsense?

There's companies out there who do induction system cleaning in different ways.

They system we use by Bg products we remove the induction pipe attach to the inlet manifold and inject a cocktail of chemicals which basically dissolves the residue in the manifold and is burnt in the cylinders. The exhaust temperature is raised to active regeneration temperatures for the specific vehicle so the extra soot being burnt does not clog the dpf.

Stuff

Wow :)

This dirty, soot laden high pressure exhaust is still being directed back into the engine where some of this soot is going to be deposited in the induction throat upstream of the inlet valves. What facilities have VW built into the induction system to periodically remove this deposit.......none!

 

How long will it take to clog up sufficiently, to impact on performance, 20,000 miles?  What engineering company worth it's salt would design an engine with this built in disaster? How much will it cost to get your car engine "decoked" at the dealer?   I suggest an additional  £4000? at every service and with half the bodywork to be removed before you can even get near it?

 

Back in the thirties up to the fifties, this was routine maintenance required by every motorist and was considered to be part of the joys of motoring. Only then, this job could be completed easily in a couple of hours by the owner himself with a few open ended spanners and a new side valve head gasket. Further more, there was plenty of access room around the engine to do the job unlike today?

 

Have we learnt anything from the past? Are we going to put up with this nonsense?

Totally agree. If you want a real laugh though investigate the routine for changing a front indicator bulb on an Octavia 3, but watch out, this type of 'grumpy old man'  thinking is highly frowned upon in these modern times.

 

You need to remember everything new is progress, all progress is good, you should not be meddling with your own car, multinational companies are full of clever people who know what they are doing and have your interests at heart, intelligent machines and 'assists' are in no way making humans weaker or stupider - repeat 3 times hourly and you should be fine. 

 

I might not quite want to go back to sidevalves but OHV pushrod engines were nearly as easy to work on and fine for anything other than ultra high revving engines, with high mounted cams and short pushrods they could even rev.

Had a Euro 5 Leon FR184 and a Euro 6 VRS 184 and I'm not noticing regens any more often tbh. What I do notice is that the low down shove is lacking more on the Euro 6 (even taking the weight difference into account).

This dirty, soot laden high pressure exhaust is still being directed back into the engine where some of this soot is going to be deposited in the induction throat upstream of the inlet valves. What facilities have VW built into the induction system to periodically remove this deposit.......none!

 

How long will it take to clog up sufficiently, to impact on performance, 20,000 miles?  What engineering company worth it's salt would design an engine with this built in disaster? How much will it cost to get your car engine "decoked" at the dealer?   I suggest an additional  £4000? at every service and with half the bodywork to be removed before you can even get near it?

 

Back in the thirties up to the fifties, this was routine maintenance required by every motorist and was considered to be part of the joys of motoring. Only then, this job could be completed easily in a couple of hours by the owner himself with a few open ended spanners and a new side valve head gasket. Further more, there was plenty of access room around the engine to do the job unlike today?

 

Have we learnt anything from the past? Are we going to put up with this nonsense?

 

Hysterical much? :D :D

How can you tell if it's performing a Regen apart from when you stop the engine and the fan keeps running?

How can you tell if it's performing a Regen apart from when you stop the engine and the fan keeps running?

Higher revs at idle & start stop not working

How can you tell if it's performing a Regen apart from when you stop the engine and the fan keeps running?

As well as all the above there is a fairly distinctive smell.

Mr Adamwood, can you still get BG diesel induction Cleaner? Powerenhancers seems to have dropped it from their web-site, possible problems with detachment of large lumps of carbon causing internal engine damage? The holy grail is to internally clean an engine periodically during it's life to ensure optimal performance not only driveability but also to maintain the emissions systems. All this good stuff without expensive mechanical disassembly by dealers. I suggest not a lot of cleaning will be done by them but a lot of expensive new parts would be fitted and loads of serviceable but dirty bits binned.

 

My suggestion that VW should have taken the opportunity fit a handy system cleaner port. This would have opened up a brand new and profitable service they could exploit and keep their customers happy by keeping their cars running at peak performance.

 

As to recognising when an engine is performing a regeneration, any driver with a modicum of technical sensitivity should instantly know the symptoms, failing that just look at the fuel gauge.

 

Octy0GG, you are spot on about the nonsense of changing an indicator bulb on the Mk III Octavia, another "SIMPLY STUPID" idea. What was wrong about the simplicity of removing the entire headlamp assembly on the Mk II?

 

What I disagree with you about is that everything new is progress. (are you like VW with a lack of an ADblue system, taking the P**s?)  Someone once said that to forget their historical errors forced one to repeat them in the future. I think this applies more so to engineering. As to "meddling" with my own car, I have successfully serviced every car I have owned, unfortunately many more servicing tasks are becoming absolutely impossible due to complexity and accessibility. in not to many years time, access to the bonnet release will restricted to the dealer only and any infringement will be rewarded with the cancellation of warranty.

 

When that happens, give me a Google autonomous vehicle with a bed in the back!!!

You need to remember everything new is progress, all progress is good, you should not be meddling with your own car, multinational companies are full of clever people who know what they are doing and have your interests at heart, intelligent machines and 'assists' are in no way making humans weaker or stupider - repeat 3 times hourly and you should be fine. 

 

 

Yes - joking.

Just in case there should be any doubt