I've decided I want to improve handling of my vRS, so I've decided to replace either the springs or go for coilovers. Problem is, I can't decide which. I already have an ARB.

 

It sounds like lowering springs merely increase the ride firmness solely due to a higher spring rate because they're lower (shorter). Both are within my budget, and I'm aware of the differences between them (coilovers seem to be the way to go if they're within budget) but can anyone tell me downsides of going coilovers? I understand it changes suspension geometry entirely, are there any downsides to doing that? Will I need a camber or caster kit?

 

Coilovers I'm looking at are the KW V1 / V2's. Have read good things about both.

Edited 26 February, 20179 yr by mabnz

Take a look here mabnz

 

https://www.awesomegti.com/shop-by-car/skoda/octavia-mk3-5e/?search_query=&page=1&limit=16&sort=newest&Sub Part=Coilover Kits&category=182&is_category_page=1

 

I prefer the Bilstein kit personally even thou the KW will lower more but if I was on a budget & money is a little tight etc then the AP kit looks pretty decent.

If you lower it too much on springs, you will be working outside the proper range for standard dampers. If you then go for shortened dampers (bilstein B8 etc) then you may as well go coilover to start with, all other things being equal.

 

If I was going for KWs it would be V1's or V3's. As spend on V2's there is a lot more actual benefit to V3's

 

With the V3's you get to adjust the slow compression (body roll) but the fast compression (pot holes) stays fixed that way you can tighten the handling without making it crashy. You also get to adjust the rebound. You only get that with the V3 and AFAIK no other coilover available for the Octy works like that.

 

With the Bilsteins etc as you stiffen the settings, you stiffen both the fast and slow compression together. Most work like that and it would make the V3s stand out for me. It is why they have a reputation for having a good ride whilst handling well.

 

The V3 rear shocks are made in house. The others (V1/V2) are bought in (Koni units I think) and are not as good.

 

Some coilovers have had a bit of a reputation of spring sag when used at the limits of their height range (high or low) they seem to work best in the mid ranges (makes sense really)

 

What you need to do to the geometry will depend entirely on how much you lower it

I would completely disregard the idea of coil overs and opt for a decent spring & damper setup. 

1 minute ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

I would completely disregard the idea of coil overs and opt for a decent spring & damper setup. 

 

Why?

5 hours ago, flybynite said:

If you lower it too much on springs, you will be working outside the proper range for standard dampers. If you then go for shortened dampers (bilstein B8 etc) then you may as well go coilover to start with, all other things being equal.

 

If I was going for KWs it would be V1's or V3's. As spend on V2's there is a lot more actual benefit to V3's

 

With the V3's you get to adjust the slow compression (body roll) but the fast compression (pot holes) stays fixed that way you can tighten the handling without making it crashy. You also get to adjust the rebound. You only get that with the V3 and AFAIK no other coilover available for the Octy works like that.

 

With the Bilsteins etc as you stiffen the settings, you stiffen both the fast and slow compression together. Most work like that and it would make the V3s stand out for me. It is why they have a reputation for having a good ride whilst handling well.

 

The V3 rear shocks are made in house. The others (V1/V2) are bought in (Koni units I think) and are not as good.

 

Some coilovers have had a bit of a reputation of spring sag when used at the limits of their height range (high or low) they seem to work best in the mid ranges (makes sense really)

 

What you need to do to the geometry will depend entirely on how much you lower it

 

Awesome, thanks for the very comprehensive reply! 

 

I don't want to lower it much from stock at all (don't want hassle with getting over things) so it sounds like camber etc might not be a problem.

 

I'll check out the V3's. The DCC system looks interesting but I don't know if I want to tear up the interior enough to lay the cabling.

Because they always tend to remove any ride comfort by making the suspension as hard as a rock, a decent kit is mega money and they don't offer the same flexibility that a spring and damper kit do. I'd go as far as to say they ruin the car and don't necessarily provide the result people want. 

 

Having fitted lots of coil over and spring & damper kits to various cars ranging from £150 eBay specials to £1200 flagship units - the latter option always comes in cheaper and provides a better compromise of ride quality and handling. 

 

One of of the most beneficial suspension modifications that wins time and time again is a decent upgraded front and rear anti roll bar setup with a correct geometry adjustment post work.

 

Eibach provide a "blue light kit" for emergency response vehicles which consists of thicker anti roll bars and stiffer springs (slightly raised) - despite the fact that the cars often have 500kgs of extra equipment compared to a regular vehicle they stick to the road like glue, often with all seasons tyres on. 

1 hour ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

Because they always tend to remove any ride comfort by making the suspension as hard as a rock, a decent kit is mega money and they don't offer the same flexibility that a spring and damper kit do. I'd go as far as to say they ruin the car and don't necessarily provide the result people want. 

 

Having fitted lots of coil over and spring & damper kits to various cars ranging from £150 eBay specials to £1200 flagship units - the latter option always comes in cheaper and provides a better compromise of ride quality and handling. 

 

One of of the most beneficial suspension modifications that wins time and time again is a decent upgraded front and rear anti roll bar setup with a correct geometry adjustment post work.

 

Eibach provide a "blue light kit" for emergency response vehicles which consists of thicker anti roll bars and stiffer springs (slightly raised) - despite the fact that the cars often have 500kgs of extra equipment compared to a regular vehicle they stick to the road like glue, often with all seasons tyres on. 

 

Out of interest do you know the spec of the ARBs on that Eibach kit? I have not had much to do with it as AFAIK it still does not fit 4x4s

 

The fronts on many standard Octys are 24mm which is the same as a Golf R. Whilst I would agree with the need to upgrade the rear ARB, not so sure I would go above 24mm on the front for road use.

 

I don't have coilovers on any of my machines, I have been a springs and damper person for decades, however I can see the benefit in being able to tweak the ride height and damping rates easily if the use of the car changes. With springs and dampers you are committed to one setup.

 

There are a lot of cheap, bad, rock-hard coilover units out there, however we were talking about the KW V3 (which comes in way over £1200 ) and seems to bring a unique set of abilities. I have driven an Octy with these fitted, set to mid levels and it seemed to me very sorted. Made an old dog like me learn new tricks

2 hours ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

Because they always tend to remove any ride comfort by making the suspension as hard as a rock, a decent kit is mega money and they don't offer the same flexibility that a spring and damper kit do. I'd go as far as to say they ruin the car and don't necessarily provide the result people want. 

 

Having fitted lots of coil over and spring & damper kits to various cars ranging from £150 eBay specials to £1200 flagship units - the latter option always comes in cheaper and provides a better compromise of ride quality and handling. 

 

One of of the most beneficial suspension modifications that wins time and time again is a decent upgraded front and rear anti roll bar setup with a correct geometry adjustment post work.

 

Eibach provide a "blue light kit" for emergency response vehicles which consists of thicker anti roll bars and stiffer springs (slightly raised) - despite the fact that the cars often have 500kgs of extra equipment compared to a regular vehicle they stick to the road like glue, often with all seasons tyres on. 

 

Definitely agree, though I guess 'hard as a rock' may be what some people like, and comfort may be what some other people like. I'd prefer something a bit harder than what the Octy is stock.

 

The blue light kit Eibach do sounds interesting. We get access to almost nothing here in NZ (nothing that fits a Skoda anyway) so I'm forced to import from places like the UK  

The eibach kit is detailed on page 5 of this PDF article:

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/emergencyServicesDec14Newsletter.pdf

16 minutes ago, James@RRGRochdale said:

The eibach kit is detailed on page 5 of this PDF article:

 

http://www.skoda.co.uk/SiteCollectionDocuments/Brochures/emergencyServicesDec14Newsletter.pdf

 

Thanks, I have seen that somewhere in the past, guess they never got there with the 4x4

 

What I was getting at was the size of the upgraded ARBs, Thought you may know as you sound like you have fitted/seen some in action

I'm not 100% sure but I would say somewhere in the region of 24-28mm

28mm f and 25mm r is the standard Eibach upgrade so I guess they use that and just paint it blue.

 

From the way mine handles with a 24mm front I would be worried about lifting a wheel with a 28mm but I guess they don't have that problem with an extra half ton in the back holding it down

Quote

The upgraded suspension kit is fully TUV approved and available through VWG as a UK-approved accessory option;

 

From the article.... so is this accessory available to consumers? If so, how much and what's the part numbers for torsion and multi?

There's an email address in the article for ordering. 

On 2/27/2017 at 01:10, flybynite said:

With the V3's you get to adjust the slow compression (body roll) but the fast compression (pot holes) stays fixed that way you can tighten the handling without making it crashy. You also get to adjust the rebound. You only get that with the V3 and AFAIK no other coilover available for the Octy works like that.

 

The V3 rear shocks are made in house. The others (V1/V2) are bought in (Koni units I think) and are not as good.

 

Against my better judgement I went for the V3's, just waiting for them (and my 22mm rear sway bar) to arrive. Have read some glimmering reviews of them so really looking forward to getting them in!

Edited 1 March, 20179 yr by mabnz

B12 kit (B8 dampers plus eibach prokit) totally transformed the MK2 Octy and combined with solid wishbone bushing when they were worn rather than the voided ones, made a car that was fun to drive.

1 hour ago, mabnz said:

 

Against my better judgement I went for the V3's, just waiting for them (and my 22mm rear sway bar) to arrive. Have read some glimmering reviews of them so really looking forward to getting them in!

 

I think it should be choice you won't regret. Be sure to let us know what you think of them when it settles down. They felt a long way from the cheap and crashy things people generally think of as coilovers when I drove them (so they should at the price!). Although people say start from hard or soft, personally I would leave them at the factory setting (I think about half way) and work from there. Be sure to check the number of clicks already in so you know where you are and no one has messed with them

 

Good choice on the roll bar, 22mm will go well with the 24mm front ( I think Octys are light on RARB even for an under-steered standard car) You don't want to go too high and overpower the coilovers. 24/22 should be about right

Yeah I've been looking at more sway bar options but I think 22mm will be enough, I don't want oversteer and stock being 20mm (rear) I think 24mm (H&R) might be a little too much. Will post some thoughts once I have the suspension in.

 

Really wish the Octavia had an option of having DCC fitted from factory. Totally would have gone for that. The KW DCC is a little too crazy expensive (along with the wifi unit).

Edited 1 March, 20179 yr by mabnz

Got them installed today, really pleased with them so far. Didn't have a chance to have a long drive so I'm sure my thoughts will change in time.

 

22mm Superpro rear sway bar, KW V3's, lowered a further 20mm from stock.

 

Edited 14 March, 20179 yr by mabnz

Got them installed today, really pleased with them so far. Didn't have a chance to have a long drive so I'm sure my thoughts will change in time.

 

22mm Superpro rear sway bar, KW V3's lowered a further 20mm from stock.

 

 

Does anyone have any experience with spacers on the O3? I've read 10mm is probably fine, but not sure if I need longer stud bolts?

Edited 14 March, 20179 yr by mabnz

1 hour ago, mabnz said:

Got them installed today, really pleased with them so far. Didn't have a chance to have a long drive so I'm sure my thoughts will change in time.

 

22mm Superpro rear sway bar, KW V3's lowered a further 20mm from stock.

 

 

Does anyone have any experience with spacers on the O3? I've read 10mm is probably fine, but not sure if I need longer stud bolts?

 

I have 10mm front and 15mm rear hubcentric spacers, with the same wheels as yours. Don't use any non-hubcentric spacers, you will get vibrations. 

 

Longer bolts definitely needed, and make sure you get radius seated ones to fit OEM wheels. Makes a big difference to the look IMHO.

 

Also remember to keep standard bolts in the car for your spare wheel, or make sure you keep the spacer in place with the spare, otherwise the longer bolts will go right through the hub...

 

7 hours ago, pist0nbr0ke said:

 

I have 10mm front and 15mm rear hubcentric spacers, with the same wheels as yours. Don't use any non-hubcentric spacers, you will get vibrations. 

 

Longer bolts definitely needed, and make sure you get radius seated ones to fit OEM wheels. Makes a big difference to the look IMHO.

 

Also remember to keep standard bolts in the car for your spare wheel, or make sure you keep the spacer in place with the spare, otherwise the longer bolts will go right through the hub...

 

Awesome thanks. What brand spacers and bolts are you using? 

1 hour ago, mabnz said:

 

Awesome thanks. What brand spacers and bolts are you using? 

 

They are from Watfields Engineering through eBay.

 

Very good vfm, others are available...