DSG advice please?

[simon1304]

I'm thinking of buying a Fabia with the DSG box (currently have a SEAT 1.2 tsi but manual).   Have driven various autos over the years but have never owned one.   I've spent a good while reading through some of the DSG threads here but not found mention of issue - which is...

 

Local dealer says that they never see/sell/have any DSG Fabias (?) so offered me a test drive in a Rapid Spaceback (90PS 1.2 tsi - I think).   Being confident that the DSG box would be fine in 'open road' conditions, I insisted that we drove mainly around the outskirts of town - lots of roundabouts and junctions, etc., and mainly 30/40 limits.

 

Well, I wanted to be impressed, but wasn't.   In fact, put off completely.   The DSG box was smooth enough, no problems with starting/stopping, but I found that (in D) it was changing up so early that the engine was vibrating/"grumbling" and didn't sound happy at all.   It would be quickly into 5th at 30mph and held this gear even going up hill - despite the protests from the engine and enough vibration for me to feel it under my right foot.

 

Switching into S caused a change down to 4th so I left it in S;   but having stopped at a junction and moved off again, it would then hold 3rd at 30mph when 4th would have been OK.   Of course, I could (and did) use manual mode but that that defeats the point for normal driving (for me, anyway).

 

I tried to have the "am I doing something wrong/is there something wrong with this car/is this normal" conversation with the salesman but he had only been at the dealership for a few weeks and knew no more than me.   His only comment was "well, it's good for mpg".   Surely, but probably very bad for the engine and all the bits bolted to it.

 

So, freely accept that I'm not familiar with DSG boxes.   Was I doing something wrong or this normal?   All advice appreciated/accepted.   Thanks in advance!

[Rooted]

Must have been a bad Rapid which is why they sell so few of them.

Obviously why as you now see.

 

Call Skoda UK Customer Services and get them to arrange a test drive in a Fabia DSG.

?

Which Dealership has not sold or seen many Fabia with DSG?

[simon1304]

Thanks - I was hoping that someone would say that it was this particular car and not typical of the breed...

 

This was Progress Skoda (Bedford).    To be fair to the dealership, the salesman who said that they do not see/sell DSG Fabias told me that he had only been there a few weeks (nine IIRC).    So maybe it was just him who hadn't seen or sold any!

[Robjon]

My previous Roomster was a 105 DSG and my current Yeti is a 110 DSG.  Neither had/has the issues you describe.

 

As Awayoffski has advised, get a test drive in a Fabia DSG.  You'll love it

[Rooted]

Like with clothes, if available in every colour and in every size they are not selling like hot cakes.  

Progress Skoda maybe need to get some cars ordered up,

but the new 1.0 TSI's are coming so maybe why none there.

 

[simon1304]

3 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

but the new 1.0 TSI's are coming so maybe why none there.

 

 

Agree, more than likely.   No Fabias in showroom at all.   Can't really blame a dealership for not wanting to order run-out cars into stock.

[RickW]

I love my DSG Fabia and haven't encountered any of the problems you had in your test drive.

 

As has been,said find a DSG Fabia somewhere for a drive if possible (come up to Preston and try mine if you like )and I believe you'll notice the difference and realise you had a bad experience.

Edited 28 May, 2017 by RickW

[Rooted]

The 7 Speed DSG does change up the gears very quickly for the sake of economy.

But when needed to change down to get a move on or up a hill it should change down.

As to 'S' that has it holding gears longer so revving higher and it then has 6 gears not 7.

Personally i use 'S' to decelerate in winter or in some situations when not changing gears manually, & never use 'S' to accelerate putting it back into 'D' for upshifts because it shifts better than i can do it....

 

The thing with a DSG is you can use it as it suits you, and it is a automated manual so manual shift if you want, or when you might feel that suits the situation.

Edited 28 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[norsko]

Remember that the DSG is adaptive and is learning from the driver. When you just testdrive a car it will behave like it learned from the driver before you.

If you buy a second hand car with DSG tell the seller that you want them to reset the the gearbox before you get it.

[Rooted]

You do not require to reset anything, you do as you do if you lend your car to someone else and when you get in it feels different, 

go drive, then do a bit of 'Dynamic Driving', then drive as normal, it will behave as you want.

 

T-Shirt's fill my drawer from the experience of nearest and dearest borrowing cars and then driving like Car Sales people. 

Normally within a gallons worth of fuel the car is back driving as i like.

 

Dealers Demonstrators and Used cars are never really a good guide of how a car goes with just a short test drive.

For one thing you never know what the tyre pressures are at, or if the car has been sitting with sticky brakes, and the car might not be run in.

[simon1304]

12 hours ago, RickW said:

I love my DSG Fabia and haven't encountered any of the problems you had in your test drive.

 

As has been,said find a DSG Fabia somewhere for a drive if possible (come up to Preston and try mine if you like )and I believe you'll notice the difference and realise you had a bad experience.

 

Many thanks for the offer but Preston is a bit far from sunny Cambs.    Actually, if I was going that far I'd be more interested in a ride in your A40!   Old girlfriend of mine once had one (her mum's, really).   Happy days.   Ahem.

[simon1304]

Thanks to all for advice/comments.

 

I do understand that the DSG is an automated dual-clutch manual, not a TC, and that is going to have its own quirks.   My main, if not only, concern was that it seemed to be selecting, and holding, gears that were keeping the revs too low for the engine to be running efficiently and smoothly for the prevailing road speed and conditions.

 

As a by-the-by, I also know that - in theory - the tsi engines develop max torque from very low revs (1400rpm for my tsi 110, not sure about the engine in the Rapid I was test driving).   I say "in theory" because dyno graphs I've seen tend to show that max torque actually arrives just above 2000rpm;    and that is how it feels when driving it.

 

I've only ever driven one other 'automated manual' for any time/distance.   That was a Grand Picasso (sharing driving duties on a holiday in France).   I don't remember there being any issues with that at all.

 

Anyway, grateful for the feedback that this wasn't typical tsi DSG behaviour.   Not in a tearing hurry so will wait until the new 1.0 tsi Fabias start to appear at dealers and try again.

[RickW]

1 hour ago, simon1304 said:

 

Many thanks for the offer but Preston is a bit far from sunny Cambs.    Actually, if I was going that far I'd be more interested in a ride in your A40!   Old girlfriend of mine once had one (her mum's, really).   Happy days.   Ahem.

Happy days indeed! Borrow my A40 for the weekend if you like?

[Rooted]

I think you will find the DSG is changing gear to have the engines delivering the best fuel efficiency.

I doubt very much you can drive manually and use less fuel than with the DSG in 'D'.

 

[simon1304]

40 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

I think you will find the DSG is changing gear to have the engines delivering the best fuel efficiency.

I doubt very much you can drive manually and use less fuel than with the DSG in 'D'.

 

 

I'm sure that you are spot on there.   Whether having the engine delivering best fuel efficiency is the same as operating in a way that is good for longevity of itself and its ancillaries (e.g. minimising vibration), and comfort for occupants, may or may not be the same though.

 

In my current manual tsi I don't tend to let the revs drop much below 1500, especially if there is anything more than minimal load on the engine, even though the shift indicator would appear to be happy for me to do so.   Maybe I am sacrificing a tiny bit of fuel consumption for perceived smoothness and having at least a little throttle response available.   The Rapid DSG that I drove last week - in 5th at 30mph - was running barely above tick-over revs and grumbling accordingly, especially up hill.   Maybe this is 'normal' and it is me expecting the car to behave in a similar way to how I drive my manual tsi?

 

If it is me simply being out of step, so to speak, then I don't think that me and a DSG are going to get on...

 

Confession time.   Having decided that it is 'time' for an auto (not for any medical reason but because I simply can't be bothered to stir the pudding anymore - thinking that the Cousins were right all along...), my first instinct was to find a suitable TC.   Mainly because TC autos have been around for years and have generally had any problems sorted.    VW Group DSGs... well, you understand...    But TC autos in superminis are thin on the ground (and I no longer need/want a bigger car).

 

Drove a Mazda 2 with TC auto a couple of weeks ago.   Generally pleasant car, if ride a bit hard, but 1.5 n/a engine has minimal torque at low revs (and not much at any revs).   So calling for even modest acceleration from low speed meant waiting for the thing to shift down a couple of gears.   The imperial thumb was turned down I'm afraid.

 

Have a test drive in a Suzuki Baleno (TC) auto booked for tomorrow.   On paper it looks interesting.   One reservation is that it isn't really a Suzuki at all, it's a Maruti Suzuki.   Anyone who has spent any time in India will understand...  we shall see.

 

I haven't given up on the Fabia and will find a test drive when a 1.0 tsi DSG is available.   Have driven Skodas and a Seat for a few years and generally been happy with them.

[Rooted]

LOL,  the VW Group / Skoda have messed up plenty engines and gearboxes over the decades but there was a bit of thought, failures and experience went into things by the time the 'All new 3rd Generation Fabia' was released, Vorsprung Durch Technik.

 

The 7 speed wet clutch DSG is going in bigger cars now but the latest DQ200 7 speed twin dry clutch surely does not decrease the longevity of the 1.2TSI's.

 

PS.

Why not go to a Seat or VW Dealership and get a drive in a car with a DSG that is running properly, 

maybe one without binding brakes or the likes.

Edited 29 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[norsko]

19 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

You do not require to reset anything, you do as you do if you lend your car to someone else and when you get in it feels different, 

go drive, then do a bit of 'Dynamic Driving', then drive as normal, it will behave as you want.

 

T-Shirt's fill my drawer from the experience of nearest and dearest borrowing cars and then driving like Car Sales people. 

Normally within a gallons worth of fuel the car is back driving as i like.

 

Dealers Demonstrators and Used cars are never really a good guide of how a car goes with just a short test drive.

For one thing you never know what the tyre pressures are at, or if the car has been sitting with sticky brakes, and the car might not be run in.

My wife has a 2015 Fabia 1,2 TSI DSG (110hp). Bought second hand in december. I had this car at the local Skoda shop last week because she wasnt totally happy with the DSG. A technician took a testdrive and said that it was nearly perfect but he wanted to reset gearbox and clutches. The car is going in for this job 1th of june.

[Rooted]

You can do a DIY reset if you know the procedure.

 

Yes you can have a Reset done if required, but not many will have had done.

As to as your suggested 'tell the seller of a second hand car to have it done', 

i can imagine the reaction from most. Get it done yourself the car runs perfectly.

 

Main Dealers selling Skoda Approved used cars do not even set things like Steering or Brake assist to Factory Setting let alone check what they are at. Reset various setting people have had changed, maybe big Digital Speedo etc.

 

It will be interesting to know if the technician does a reset or a software update on your wife's DSG.

Edited 29 May, 2017 by Awayoffski

[simon1304]

I do intend to go for another test drive but there is no urgency so I shall wait until the Fabia 1.0 tsi DSG is available at dealers.   In the meantime I'm going to have a good look at whatever else is available (like the Baleno tomorrow).

 

I take the point that the 7 speed dry-clutch DSG has been around for a while now and there is a fair chance that, by now, they may have sorted it out;   but I still read of issues (as above) and the way the box worked with the engine in the Rapid I drove last week was not encouraging.

 

It sometimes occurs to me that I have retired from my main career and should think about retiring from the second one (as unpaid product tester for VAG).

[James777]

I should imagine you will not have half the build quality from Suzuki compared to Skoda.

The DSG always adapts to your current driving of you are going steady it is always in the best hear gear for economy. If you are leaving em standing at the lights it will hold gears right almost up to red line and the changes are so quick only a an F1 car could change quicker.

[Rooted]

You are right you will not get half the build quality from Suzuki. 

They build them very well in Hungary and you get better quality then turned out in the Czech Republic.

[norsko]

My wifes Fabia was at the dealer today and had the adaption reset, the clutches reset and got the new software update for the DSG.

And finally she has a car with a proper automatic gearbox!

She was very pleased when she got home, and I understand why after I had a testdrive.

Now you dont have to wait for the take off, it doesnt increase the rpm for every gearshift and it is a lot smoother in every way.

Even though the technician said it was nearly perfect before it is in my opinion a lot better now.

[simon1304]

I'm grateful for everyone's input on this thread but I think that I'll be staying with a manual.

 

I do get that some folks are very happy with their DSGs and respect those opinions;   but for me, quite apart from the historical outright failures, there are too many reports around about DSGs needing various fettling or software updates in order to get them working properly.

 

In over 40 years I can't recall having a problem with a manual 'box or clutch (albeit some are definitely better than others).   Maybe I just can't remember .   My clutch foot was calibrated when I learned to drive and has never needed adjusting or updating...

[GeneralPurpose]

Simon, obviously buy what pleases you most. But I'm thinking you could miss out on a fabulously well sorted car. I've had 3 Skoda autos, one with torque converter and two DSG's. Never ever had an issue with any of them. I know lots of folks with Skoda DSG's (dry clutches) and everyone praises them. No problems whatsoever. I have teched on this box recently and was very surprised at how simple it is. Failures are rare, of any kind. It's easy to read on forums about some problem or another but it can give the impression that a particular car or gearbox is problematic. There are no actual intrinsic problems with the DSG's, in fact it's one of the most problem free boxes on the market. But as I say, remember the view you may get on sites like this can sometimes give a skewed viewed of the actual facts. Good luck!

 

[simon1304]

17 hours ago, Estate Man said:

Simon, obviously buy what pleases you most. But I'm thinking you could miss out on a fabulously well sorted car. I've had 3 Skoda autos, one with torque converter and two DSG's. Never ever had an issue with any of them. I know lots of folks with Skoda DSG's (dry clutches) and everyone praises them. No problems whatsoever. I have teched on this box recently and was very surprised at how simple it is. Failures are rare, of any kind. It's easy to read on forums about some problem or another but it can give the impression that a particular car or gearbox is problematic. There are no actual intrinsic problems with the DSG's, in fact it's one of the most problem free boxes on the market. But as I say, remember the view you may get on sites like this can sometimes give a skewed viewed of the actual facts. Good luck!

 

 

Thanks.   Points taken.   I agree that, on forums generally, someone is more likely to comment on a problem than if everything is fine and dandy (I'm no different).   I will have that test drive on a 1.0 tsi DSG (when available).

 

There just may be something else going on here, though, that I hadn't been expecting.   In the last couple of weeks I've now had test drives in 4 autos (1xDSG, 2xTC and 1xCVT).    No problem with the fact that the gears were being changed for me - but not always happy with which gear was being selected - and when.    Maybe losing this element of control after many years of owning manuals isn't as easy as I thought it would be (but I would get used to it?).   Or maybe I just have latent control freak tendencies.