Most ideal Spark Plugs

[planehazza]

What is the correct torque value for those NGK plugs on CCZA?

[rayx]

For all EA888, incl. CZZA, workshop manual indicates 30Nm, what is 22.12 lb.ft.

 

NGK says Torque Specs: Cast Iron: 18-25.3 lb. ft. Aluminum: 18-21.6 lb.ft.

 

With some uncertainty, 28-30Nm or 20.6-22.1lb.ft. should be OK.

 

What you think about that?

Edited 6 June, 2017 by rayx

[rayx]

On 6. 6. 2017 at 00:44, rayx said:

Concerning resistance, as you can see, Bosch plug 06H905611 is F5KPP332SBN and acc. their catalogue it is 1KOhm too. What is a bit strange, Bosch has for the same VAG Nr. yet plug  FR5KPP332S, and yes, this one is 6KOhm, but according the info from ETKA not the right one ... When links does not work, try this one and search http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-search

Seems Bosch people watch us their catalogue updated concerning FR5KPP332S, no more info to the resistance ... Gap updated on F5KPP332SBN

 

Some internet history still available

[TheClient]

Might be my fault, I posted an enquiry to Bosch today asking why the difference and can SBN plug be obtained!!!! They haven't yet replied but very co-incidental.

[rayx]

What a surprise

[TheClient]

Yes, helpful, not. They (Bosch) don't respond (or not yet) but instead remove evidence and any detail for future. You can still measure but why should it be a secret!

 

If they respond I'll post up but it seems they may not want to provide much insight!

Edited 7 June, 2017 by TheClient

[rayx]

They are VAG siblings, same manners

[promethian]

Sorry I am totally confused by this discussion, excuse me for being a total numpty, but I've read it through and I'm still not sure what is the best spark plug for a remapped EA888 CDAA 1.8 TSI. (2011)

 

Can someone put me right?

 

 I too remember the days, which seem so very recent, when spark plug selection was much simpler. 

Edited 8 June, 2017 by promethian

[rayx]

I guess no universal answer exists same as "most ideal" ... What we have disscused here are standard plugs, best plugs for remapped engine should give you your Tuner.

My personal vote, for standard double platin, for mapped double platin one grade colder.

[TheClient]

16 hours ago, promethian said:

Sorry I am totally confused by this discussion, excuse me for being a total numpty, but I've read it through and I'm still not sure what is the best spark plug for a remapped EA888 CDAA 1.8 TSI. (2011)

 

Can someone put me right?

 

 I too remember the days, which seem so very recent, when spark plug selection was much simpler. 

Yes, "what is the best threads" are a bit of fun and there can be some good technical information and fun along the way.

 

Trouble is, there is no capability to empirically test all the comments and the effects, so a lot is either based on preferences or trying to as closely mirror genuine manufacture specs, which this thread has become. And, what is best, most power, longest life, best fuel economy, longest engine durability, best torque...?  All beyond my capability of accurately gauging between different plugs. 

 

For a standard car, if you can stomach the genuine price, the genuine plug is a safe bet. I can't stomach the price if there is a similar quality alternative. If you want closest in after market to manufacturer genuine plug specs, I now believe, based on what rayx has provided the NGK PFR7S8EG is probably the best bet for aftermarket due to the impedance 1kohm being the manufacturer spec.

 

Having said that, aftermarkets must test, the Bosch aftermarket and commonly used (not on compatibility charts though) NGK BKR7EIX match up in all published aspects except carry higher impedance.  I have not come across any threads that point to any concern using them. I use those NGKs in our car for the last year, no problems so far.

 

On a stage 1 map, I don't see the need for a colder plug really. More extensive mods than a stage 1, like bolt on bigger turbo etc. yes, probably.  All my opinions of course. If you did want to, use those options discussed in here and go down one rating colder.

 

Edit: And worth get your tuners input when doing the map, surely they ought to have some experience and preferences? Once you map, you have already moved the car from manufacturer specs so the baseline is already changed. From information in a few other recent threads, it seems a lot of the mapping places, some even quite reputable ones, pay little attention to anything other than getting the map on the car. Even immediate faults are met with shrugged shoulders, not what I would have expected TBH.

 

Edited 9 June, 2017 by TheClient

[Ecomatt]

As a rule the standard plugs are fine for standard/stage 1/ stage 2/ stage 2+. All worked fine on my Octy. You can go a step colder to 8's if you drive hard or do track days. If you do short runs, the 8's will carbon up quickly and lead to running issues.

I would just stick with either Bosch or NGK std plugs. I preferred the Bosch plug personally in my old car.

[promethian]

21 hours ago, rayx said:

I guess no universal answer exists same as "most ideal" ... What we have disscused here are standard plugs, best plugs for remapped engine should give you your Tuner.

My personal vote, for standard double platin, for mapped double platin one grade colder.

 

How does this info tie in with the information in this video?

 

 

[TheClient]

Well, I think on the durability aspect, I assumed iridium / hybrid at the minimum. I wouldn't consider running copper and changing every 10k miles.

 

I'm not sure what levels of tune this guy is talking about, probably some truth for very highly tuned motors. I would think though the heat rating of the plug takes the electrode coating into account, so should be comparable to different plug material types.

[rayx]

As I said, all manufactures test and recommend something. To guarantee you on standard EA888 interval 90000km/6years, you need some durability. Do you think that standard engine would need anything else? That I said for mapped engine double platin as for standard but one grade colder - only my generall view, the Mapper/Tuner is the King for you.

 

Yet I believe TSI and any other direct injection engine is more happy with double platin, but again, just my personal vote.

http://www.hstuning.com/blog/uncategorized/explaining-the-spark-plug-options-for-the-fsi-tsi-engines/

The primary difference is the price. The iridium plugs are cheaper than their platinum counterparts, and not without reason. Each spark plug has two electrodes, a firing electrode and a ground electrode. In the iridium plugs, the firing electrode is iridium plated, while the ground electrode is still bare copper. NGK’s double platinum plugs are platinum plated on both electrodes. What this means is the iridium plugs, while longer lasting than the bare copper, also suffer from a reduced lifespan when used in a direct injection application. Only the platinum plugs can offer reliable long life service in FSI and TSI engines.

 

By the way, do you know BriskUSA closer, are you aware they are in fact Czechs, same as me?

http://www.briskusa.com/about_brisk

http://www.brisk.biz/who-we-are

[TheClient]

In terms of durability though, in terms of plugs I see readily available, it is copper, then Iridium IX, Double Platinum, Iridium (with platinum ground). Lowest to Highest.

 

The NGK Laser Iridium is Iridium centre, platinum ( Edit Plated) ground. But if I am remembering back to our thread correctly, they are also 5kohm, despite being the listed aftermarket "upgrade" plug. But in this sense, I think the term "upgrade" is really meaning durability upgrade in terms of plug life.

 

http://www.ngkntk.com.br/automotivo/en/produtos/velas-de-ignicao/laser-iridium-spark-plugs/

 

The NGK Iridium IX, BKR7EIX is as you say iridium centre, standard ground.  It is not even listed on NGK aftermarket charts for these engines, but is commonly used. In this application, it is also 5k ohm. Edit: It won't last 60k miles, which is probably why it is not listed as it is inferior to OEM fitment in terms of durability service life.

 

http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/iridium-spark-plugs

 

https://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/////IFR7X8G//

 

https://www.ngk.de/nc/en/product-finder/produktfinder/////BKR7EIX/

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 June, 2017 by TheClient

[TheClient]

For NGK, this was the most succinct in house description of plug material types, design and service life I could find for NGK on their Australian site, maybe it is there on the european as well but easier to find here.

 

https://www.ngk.com.au/products/spark-plugs/

[TheClient]

Well Bosch, did reply. At first saying simply there was no difference. Then, after me reverting and saying there was, a fuller explanation of their opinion, as pasted below, with personal details removed.  Take it as you choose to.

 

The Question:

 

When replacing spark plugs for Skoda, Octavia 1Z5, 2011, CCZA engine, the Bosch automotive catalogue suggests FR 5 KPP 332 S as the replacement part. However, OEM plugs replacements are all 1Kohm resistance, where as those listed as Bosch replacements are 6kohm. This would be a suboptimal match to coil packs and ignition system wouldn't it?

 

The 2nd Answer:

 

"Thank you for your email. We have been in touch with our technical team and they have advised the following.

There is no negative impact to any of the components mentioned in the inquiry below.
Functional no difference between 1 kOhm and 6 kOhm. Interference suppression with 6 kOhm is better
 
In IAM we don’t have 1kOhm plugs available as it would mean more pn on the platform with less coverage.
The OEMs will anyway have to bring up resistance in the ignition system by having resistors somewhere else. In IAM we just have “it all” in the plug. It has no effect to any components or functionality that extra resistance is added because of higher resistance in IAM plugs

I hope that this helps with your query."
 

[rayx]

Great, thanks for sharing with us. I checked again and their catalogue is really messy too, I would say more than VAG´s ETKA ...

 

That one which VAG has at ETKA, what I see still detailed for YETI, is F 5 KPP 332 SBN. For this Bosch has two Nr.

0241245670 http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0241245670?country=GB they have for that yet one number 0242245576???

0241245671 http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0241245671?country=GB obsolete from 09/2010 ...

 

and that 0242245576 they know yet as 0241245674, 0241245665, FR 5 KPP 332 S

http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0242245576?country=GB

 

0241245665 http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0241245665?country=GB this one as F 5 KPP 332 SBF

0241245674 http://www.bosch-automotive-catalog.com/en_GB/product-detail/-/product/0241245674?country=GB and this one F 5 KPP 332 SBZ

 

Yes, all simplified for IAM ... And resistors somewhere else? Yes, in OEM Bosch coils

[TheClient]

A mess of one genuine plug spec to many alternative replacement parts, even with the same aftermarket manufacture!

 

I was not that convinced by the response really. If they do have resistance values added on elsewhere, that will also be added into the circuits by coil pack circuitry, with Bosch aftermarket plugs, will always be running +5kohm more regardless. But as to how much difference that makes? Also an unknown. They don't seem too concerned, but why would they...... I wonder if the aftermarket Bosch coil packs in IAM have a lower catch up resistance compared to Genuinie.  All a bit messy really.