hi all!

I registered here to get the opinion/solution to the problem of my 1.4tsi Yeti (year 2012).

The problem is that cca for 30 sec after the start I get:

- high rev idle around 1100/min

- jearky ride if I try to drive away

- no power ...

This happens when:

- the outside temperature is more than 20°C (trough the winter it start us like a charm - no problems)

-the car is parked for several hours

(so first start after several hours rest and outside temperature higher than 20°C)

 

I was to the dealer several times (first they didn't have a clue, checked everything, no fault found,...checked again,...)

and long sorry short the final answer was live with it this is the engine warm up procedure.

 

I cannot agree to that as the engine is working fine in the winter. So if this is ECU program I would like to have the same start up procedure as in winter:)

Any such experience on the forum and how did you solve this. Any ECU upgrade that can solve this?

 

Did a little digging around and here are some links with the similar story but no final answers:

http://www.sciroccocentral.co.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=8017&start=20

https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=105830

http://www.vwaudiforum.co.uk/forum/showthread.php/73218-VW-Golf-1-4-TSI-Match-High-Revs-at-Start-up

 

movie with similar symptoms

 

 

 

Edited 6 June, 20178 yr by villvk

Welcome.

So at 69,590 km has your car had new spark plugs fitted, is the Air Filter new, and maybe just you need a New Fuel filter even though it is a 'For Life' filter.

Hi Villvk

 

My 1.4 Tsi (2012) has always done this fast idle / jerky running  thing, but only when there is a certain combination of warm/humid weather or warm engine temperature, for example a few hours after it was last running (not hot or cold but in between).

 

I believe this is a deliberate engine management strategy to get the catalyst warmed up more quickly to reduce emissions, it is not a fault.  The idle speed is raised and the ignition timing is retarded, giving a strange exhaust sound.  Most dealers have no idea about this.

 

I just play with the stereo and wait 20 or 30 seconds until it has finished and the idle speed has dropped to normal.  It then drives fine.

3 minutes ago, Austin 7 said:

Hi Villvk

 

My 1.4 Tsi (2012) has always done this fast idle / jerky running  thing, but only when there is a certain combination of warm/humid weather or warm engine temperature, for example a few hours after it was last running (not hot or cold but in between).

 

I believe this is a deliberate engine management strategy to get the catalyst warmed up more quickly to reduce emissions, it is not a fault.  The idle speed is raised and the ignition timing is retarded, giving a strange exhaust sound.  Most dealers have no idea about this.

 

I just play with the stereo and wait 20 or 30 seconds until it has finished and the idle speed has dropped to normal.  It then drives fine.

Yup, 

 

This is normal behaviour, the start up procedure varies depending on conditions / temperature. The idea is to get the emissions controls active and the engine warmed up as quickly as possible. Before the exhaust is warmed through you can also hear a strange noise from the exhaust as the tsi initially generates a lot of water vapour that condenses on the cold exhaust. When warm the tsi engine is uber quiet but just after starting you can get a few noises from the direct injection, secondary air injection pumps etc. 

 

Mine can rev up to 1100 rpm sometimes for the first few seconds but usually set-off smoothly. Correct spark plugs are critical on this engine

 

 

Correct, emissions and warming up. Just to add, they call it HOSP or just HSP phase (Homogeneous split)

 

http://aa-boschww-uk.resource.bosch.com/media/__uk/workshop_world/ww/news_special_workshopworld_1/pdf/sms_tips_technology_2014_nr76_en_58954.pdf

 

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/289827-superb-18tsi-2011-cold-misfire/?do=findComment&comment=4843660

 

It is not supposed to be rough running though.

Car parked up and you open the drivers door, fuel pump primes even before key in the ignition.

You start the car and the rpm is higher, drops withing 45 seconds.

 

The hot air in some environmental conditions can cause the rough running feeling, (Black Air Box & air intake pipe sitting full of very hot air, say 25*oC Ambient Temp but even parked up under the bonnet can be 10*oC hotter from Sun on the bonnet, dark cars more so than a light coloured bonnet. Hotter when stopping after a run, over 40*oC under the bonnet,

but actually you should be able to get in, seatbelt on start car, no need to watch 'Needle Sweep' or such, just drive off.

(no needle sweep enabled anyway on this Yeti.)

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

10 hours ago, bigjohn said:

Yup, 

 

This is normal behaviour, the start up procedure varies depending on conditions / temperature. The idea is to get the emissions controls active and the engine warmed up as quickly as possible. Before the exhaust is warmed through you can also hear a strange noise from the exhaust as the tsi initially generates a lot of water vapour that condenses on the cold exhaust. When warm the tsi engine is uber quiet but just after starting you can get a few noises from the direct injection, secondary air injection pumps etc. 

 

Mine can rev up to 1100 rpm sometimes for the first few seconds but usually set-off smoothly. Correct spark plugs are critical on this engine

 

 

Ok then I am not the only one on Yeti with this.

But everywhere is stated that this is warming up in warm conditions! - this is not normal or logical for that matter...

Because in colder conditions this "warming up" is omitted an the engine works fine.

1 hour ago, Awayoffski said:

but actually you should be able to get in, seatbelt on start car, no need to watch 'Needle Sweep' or such, just drive off.

well the warming up effect is so strong that I can crawl of the parking lot.  Could this have to do with something like:

10 hours ago, bigjohn said:

Correct spark plugs are critical on this engine

the dealer sad they cleaned the fuel filter etcetera (but didn't mentioned the spark plugs).

I sill cannot get to the grips with the notion that other cars (even much older ones) can drive off more quietly and smoothly without unnecessary warming up procedure...

 

 

 

There is a Catalytic Converter and systems that require the rpm and the rich running that happens, not just like auto chokes that followed manual chokes decades ago.

 

Best ask if the Fuel Filter was changed because no idea how they would have cleaned it.

The spark plugs might well need replaced or at least checked and if checking they are as well to be replaced IMO.

The air filter should be checked and quite possibly replaced.

 

No idea what country you are in but if you are using unleaded fuel currently maybe try a tank or 2 of super unleaded and see if the car is any smoother on start up and moving off in warmer weather.

The rpm should still be up at around 1,100 rpm then drop to 800.

Hope these TPI will clear up a bit more this issue, but not sure if 1.4TSI has another specific TPI Nr.xxx released. My experience is very rough idling / jerky ride could salvage new spark plugs, better petrol, throttle body cleaning and alignment and few cold starts and rides. TPI 2028088 mention new software too, you can ask your dealer if new update available for your engine.

Technical product information 2028088_2.pdf

Technical product information 2029868_1.pdf

Technical product information 2038459_1.pdf

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by rayx

8 hours ago, villvk said:

 

I sill cannot get to the grips with the notion that other cars (even much older ones) can drive off more quietly and smoothly without unnecessary warming up procedure...

 

 

 

 

It's progress! Many other petrol (especially older) cars don't have the efficiency of the tsi - they need advanced contol systems around the direct injection , air wash , turbo, two circuit cooling. As such the airwash and direct injection can be somewhat noisy on startup. Saying that whilst my Superb tsi starts at about 1100rpm in some circustances quickly dropping to 750-800rpm it always drives smoothly and has power from first starting. Check those plugs and / or coil packs

 

On a Superb I 2.0 115bhp petrol you'd average about 30mpg , on my Superb II 1.4tsi 125bhp I'm averaging a real life economy of 46mpg

 

2 hours ago, rayx said:

My experience is very rough idling / jerky ride could salvage new spark plugs

So the effects of the warming up could be mitigated if I replace the spark plugs but as Awayoffski is saying necessary.

Many thanks for the TPI will ask what the locals here (Slovenia) has to say abut the mentioned software.

 

4 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

here is a Catalytic Converter and systems that require the rpm

why is this not required in autumn/ winter time?

 

2 minutes ago, bigjohn said:

my Superb tsi starts at about 1100rpm in some circustances quickly dropping to 750-800rpm it always drives smoothly

also in warmer climate?

 

 

It is required in Autum / Winter, maybe you were just not aware because in the cool air it was smoother.

You also have winter spec Petrol in the Winter and now you do not.

 

Just suggesting the spark plugs checked because by the 'Service Schedule / Guidelines' they are due.

I can only say, that anything what is not in 100% proper condition will make the warming phase worse. Retarded timing and double injection will be there always, new plugs can help on condition current ones are heavily used. Have you ever replaced them and what mileage is your TSI now? I see the video was posted only as sample one

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by rayx

2 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

It is required in Autum / Winter, maybe you were just not aware because in the cool air it was smoother.

You also have winter spec Petrol in the Winter and now you do not

Well this thing is happening for at least last three seasons. Every spring I start noticing this "problem" (will continue to call it that :P )

And it is definitely temperature and not petrol (winter type) dependent.

 

But I will definitely try the suggested remedies.

Thank you all for help

 

15 minutes ago, rayx said:

Have you ever replaced them and what mileage is your TSI now? I see the video was posted only as sample one

Uh sorry missed that. The mileage is 65000 km all regular services done - but don't know what in whole. But the behaviour is as shown in sample.

 

 

I see. Your engine CAXA or CAXC has plugs interval 60000km/4years, according VAG details should be Nr. 101 905 626 (NGK PZFR6R, gap 0,9-0,1 mm). Of course can be changed sooner

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by rayx

44 minutes ago, villvk said:

 

 

also in warmer climate?

 

 

 

Yes, when driving in Germany when 40deg just after I got my car in 2015 . The engine sounded different on initial startup but ran smoothlly and had power (although I drive gently out of mechanical sympathy when

any engine is cold)

 

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by bigjohn

1 hour ago, rayx said:

I see. Your engine CAXA or CAXC has plugs interval 60000km/4years, according VAG details should be Nr. 101 905 626 (NGK PZFR6R, gap 0,9-0,1 mm). Of course can be changed sooner

 

My plugs were changed at about 40k miles 3 years

 

Edited 7 June, 20178 yr by bigjohn

I went trough my service book.

At 49000 km (last year) the fuel filter was changed, together with the spark plugs and air filter.

nowhere I could found the data on the spark plugs used.

But you can see this didn't help (One option is that some of the changes were not made - hope not as it was after all an official service)

any more ideas?