Skoda Fabia 1.4 MPI suspected head gasket leak?

[nicolasn]

I have a 2001 Skoda Fabia 1.4 MPI (8-valve, engine code AME) which I suspect has a leaking head gasket.

 

The engine is running smoothly, but has the following symptoms:

 

• Water level is normal when cold but after being driven, it will be higher than normal.
• After being driven and then standing overnight (i.e. cold again), opening the coolant reservoir cap releases pressure. Significantly so, such that it appears to be boiling!
• There is no apparent sign of water in the oil, and no apparent sign of oil in the water

 

I would like to be able to do a gas test on the coolant, but nobody here seems to know about such a test let alone offer to do it. The only test offered is a pressure test, but it is obvious that pressure is successfully being maintained in the cooling system if there is pressure after standing overnight, so that test is pointless.

 

The engine had a complete head gasket kit done recently (about 10,000km / 18 months) ago, before I purchased the car. It appears from invoices, that the head also had a repair done although it is not clear exactly what was done - my guess is that some corrosion was built up with welding and the face re-machined.

 

My assumption (yes, I know!) is that there is a leak on the head gasket which is allowing combustion pressure to leak into the cooling system. Is there any other possible way that the cooling system could be being pressurised?

 

Thanks in advance.

[Breezy_Pete]

Are you losing any coolant?

Does the engine sometimes/often /always run a bit roughly for the first few seconds after a cold start?

[nicolasn]

Hello Wino,

 

I am loosing coolant but very little, like the difference between min and max marks. But then, I am not using the car much until I can sort this out.

 

Yes, the engine is a bit rough on a cold start. It will idle ok, but tends to want to just die if you drive at all during the first minute or two.

[Breezy_Pete]

Sounds very much like you have a tiny (fire-ring) leak between a combustion chamber and a waterway. If I'm right, it will steadily get worse over coming days/weeks. 

 

A very convincing test that I once did when in similar circumstances was to remove all the spark plugs, then look at the piston crowns in each cylinder (looking for coolant that may have leaked onto them during the time between engine shutdown and a few hours later). They should all look bone dry if all is well.

This was relatively easy for me as it was a twin overhead cam engine with central spark plug holes that looked vertically down onto the piston crowns. A small bright torch showed the wetness, and a clean white cloth on a stick was enough to sample the fluid and confirm by colour/smell/taste that it was coolant.

 

Not sure how easy it is on an 8-valve MPI engine to attempt something similar?

Edited 15 June, 2017 by Wino

[nicolasn]

Hi Wino, thanks for corroborating my assumption.

 

The spark plugs are on the front of the engine, at about 45deg into the head. I don't know how easily you would see the crowns of the pistons at the bottom of their stroke but worth a try. As I said, I am trying to use the car at all until I can get hold of the new gasket set. In the meantime, if I do use it, it has been only for short trips (+/- 5 minutes) and with the coolant cap loosened to avoid the build-up of pressure. I will have to deliberately set up a test to look for those symptoms but I agree it would be pretty conclusive.

 

I have been trying to avoid the build up of pressure in the cooling system firstly exactly to prevent coolant entering the cylinder bores (I had a VW once which got coolant into the cylinder bores and it was never the same again) and secondly I am worried about the excess pressure damaging the radiator or other cooling system components.

 

The head looks like this - 8V with camshaft in the block!

 

Edited 15 June, 2017 by nicolasn

[Breezy_Pete]

You're welcome.

With all the plugs out it should be easy enough to turn the engine over to sequentially present each piston at or near TDC for examination.

Please let us know how you get on.

 

Is Barbados a good place to live? I feel quite envious.

 

 

[nicolasn]

Don't be too envious, it is not all it is made out to be.

 

But to keep on topic , most of all practically every car here is of Japanese origin. Finding parts for European branded vehicles is difficult to impossible depending on what you need, and expensive! In fact cars in general are expensive due to 45% import duties plus another 50-120% (depending on factors) excise tax.

[sepulchrave]

Yes head gasket, of course head gasket.

 

Forget the gas test, a pressurised system when cold = head gasket failure.

 

Notwithstanding your import tax a new head gasket is still cheap, you probably have a VAG group dealer near you, and since the OEM gasket is the best you can order it from them even if they're not a Skoda dealer per se.

You just have to find a machine shop you can trust to properly skim the head flat again.

[nicolasn]

13 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

Notwithstanding your import tax a new head gasket is still cheap

 

Sorry, the crazy duties were a reference to complete vehicles, not parts. We were drifting off topic!

 

14 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

you probably have a VAG group dealer near you, and since the OEM gasket is the best you can order it from them even if they're not a Skoda dealer per se.

 

Actually not VAG group dealer anymore, but they still source OEM VAG group parts. I purchased a brand new radiator there earlier this year. That said, I am planning to purchase a FAI Auto branded kit (https://www.faiauto.com/) and replacement bolt set. This appears to be a reputable supplier. The dealer which carries this brand will receive new stock later this month - gasket kits, bots sets, etc.

 

14 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

You just have to find a machine shop you can trust to properly skim the head flat again.

 

He he. Pretty much everything is heath robinson here! You will only know whether to trust them once you have tried to use them.

[Torbo]

Check the thermostat! I changed mine and it has a weak clostruction. I rebuilt by installing a regular thermostat in brass in the old house, and making new seal gasket, and now the temperature is stable and no leakage. 

Otherwise, the head bolts should be retracted on these motors with a soft and thick gasket.

 

If you are in doubt about the head gasket, you can measure HC (hydrocarbon) emissions from the fish ball. It will give the 100 percent (almost) answer. It takes 5 minutes at a workshop.

Edited 16 June, 2017 by Torbo

[VWD]

Eliminate the HG- get a place to do a sniff test on the coolant. Or if possible, get the kit and do it yourself.

A sniff test tests the coolant for the presence /absence of combustion gases.

Positive- it's head gasket change time , and perhaps time to check the head/ block.

Negative- time to go looking.

 

[sepulchrave]

On 6/15/2017 at 21:34, nicolasn said:

That said, I am planning to purchase a FAI Auto branded kit (https://www.faiauto.com/) and replacement bolt set.

 

Good luck, FAI gaskets are crap, I wouldn't use them for beermats, let alone head gaskets.

 

Seriously, get the upgraded OE head gasket from Skoda, you can use all the FAI crap for everything else just don't use the actual head gasket. Bolts are bolts when it comes to the MPI, you can even re-use the old ones if money's tight.

[nicolasn]

On 2017/06/16 at 18:00, VWD said:

Eliminate the HG- get a place to do a sniff test on the coolant. Or if possible, get the kit and do it yourself.

 

 

As I said in my original post, nobody here seems to know about gas testing - not as a service or a kit that I can find.

[nicolasn]

On 2017/06/16 at 12:17, Torbo said:

If you are in doubt about the head gasket, you can measure HC (hydrocarbon) emissions from the fish ball. It will give the 100 percent (almost) answer. It takes 5 minutes at a workshop.

 

It take about 5 minutes, but you have to find someone in the country who has even heard of such a test.

[nicolasn]

On 2017/06/16 at 18:09, sepulchrave said:

 

Good luck, FAI gaskets are crap, I wouldn't use them for beermats, let alone head gaskets.

 

Seriously, get the upgraded OE head gasket from Skoda, you can use all the FAI crap for everything else just don't use the actual head gasket. Bolts are bolts when it comes to the MPI, you can even re-use the old ones if money's tight.

 

Thanks, Sepulchrave & Co for the comments. I am 99.9% sure the gasket that went on about a year ago was an beermat too (that is all that is available besides ordering an OEM) and seeing as it has problems already, I will rather wait and order in an OEM part.

 

Will post again once I have the parts and the engine is open...

[Torbo]

Ask TMB about gasket: 

He says: "If the gasket you bought doesn't have TEMAC on it my advice would be to not use it".

 

I will check that more...

 

 

[TMB]

Yes that's right. The TEMAC gasket is the revised version. Not totally sure if they still have that marking on new ones but as long as it's a genuine Skoda one it will be fine.

 

 

 

Edited 20 June, 2017 by TMB

[nicolasn]

Thanks, TMB.

 

Any comments on using sealing compounds as well? I am not a fan of extras myself, but a sealer (Indian Head) was suggested by the locals here in case of imperfections in the head. I prefer to make sure that there aren't imperfections but sometimes you can only do so much...

 

 

[Torbo]

Be careful about silicon sealer! on the in- and out gasket. It can destroy the catalyst and lambda-sensors. Oil on the lambda cables cam also destroy measuring, since the sensors has can feel the outside air! Someone in the leads. I use Permatex® Thread Sealant with PTFE right or wrong, but it smells well...

https://www.permatex.com/products/thread-compounds/thread-sealants/permatex-thread-sealant-with-ptfe/ Im not sure about the PTFE?

I have not have problem, but silicon is bad near combustion parts! Some other places to, but thats another discussion...

 

 

 

Edited 20 June, 2017 by Torbo

[TMB]

Don't use any sealer on the head gasket at all!

[Torbo]

On this engine may be not? I have not done that on the 1,2 engine, but in other engines i use it on exhaust and intake gasket. newer on the head gasket in any engine! I should be more presice. 

I used gasket sealant on the exhaust system, but it is may be wrong? Wrong in front of catalyst and near lambda sensors .

 

 

[TMB]

39 minutes ago, Torbo said:

I used gasket sealant on the exhaust system, but it is may be wrong? Wrong in front of catalyst and near lambda sensors .

 

 

 

You mean exhaust assembly paste/fire putty? That stuff is ok on the exhaust and it's usually catalyst friendly (but check!). Personally, I'd probably avoid it upstream of the catalyst but that's just me. Silicone sealants can damage lambda sensors.

Edited 21 June, 2017 by TMB

[nicolasn]

On 20/06/2017 at 17:44, nicolasn said:

 

Thanks, Sepulchrave & Co for the comments. I am 99.9% sure the gasket that went on about a year ago was an beermat too (that is all that is available besides ordering an OEM) and seeing as it has problems already, I will rather wait and order in an OEM part.

 

Will post again once I have the parts and the engine is open...

 

Sorry for the late feedback. Just to confirm that it was indeed a "beermat" head gasket problem which was successfully repaired with a new OEM part after a long wait.