Occasional starting problems!

[Huffski]

Sorry not sorry to revive this thread but has anyone got a resolution to this problem. Skoda say they cant find the 320f update and are wanting to do a diagnostic run on it for £75 to which im unsure wether they will find a problem. 9 times out of 10 its not starting properly and is beginning to bug the hell out of me.

[Greenliner1]

The TPI did exist as I had it applied some years ago to my vRS Tdi. It only worked for a few months though as whatever was causing it came back. Possibly a software fix to a hardware problem.

 

What I would say is though that’s it’s normally reported as quite intermittent and (my one was twice a week, say 1 in 7 journeys) not the 9 out of 10 times you say you are experiencing. This will hopefully help a technician diagnose it easily.

 

There are many suggestions to what it may be, injector drift, fuel pumps, non return valves, batteries, the list goes on. My car never showed an error code but I videoed it long cranking and this was enough for the dealer to act.
 

Hope you get it sorted, perhaps the diagnostic fee is an annoyance but may be worth paying to get a result (possibly)

 

Hope you get it sorted as they’re a nice car and this sort of thing lets them down badly.

[OctyJackt]

Sorry to reawaken this particularly annoying sleepy dog ...

 

Just bought a 2014 Octavia vrs Tdi and experienced the cranking problems reported here. Love the car to bits, and the engine does start, just sometimes non- immediately.

 

Any chance this could be connected with a dpf that is needing to regenerate and/or was trying to actively regenerate and was unable to do so when engine was last switched off?

 

I have little tech knowledge of cars so this is a complete shot in the dark, but I noticed that the cranking delay happened at around the same time as the car was heard furiously trying to perform an active regen. Took it for the recommended high rev spin yesterday and today no cranking delay whatsoever ...

 

 

[varaderoguy]

1 hour ago, OctyJackt said:

Took it for the recommended high rev spin yesterday and today no cranking delay whatsoever

Good call - I know how we love/care/cherish our beloved Octy's, but the Italian tune-up is really recommended for the TDI and TSI engines.  Nice tank of Super diesel or unleading will also help.  Its about getting heat into components (whether it be the DPF or Carbon Particulates Filter) and letting the re-gen processes kick off properly.  I took my TSI out for a 120 mile spin (for work)  - used the right pedal lots - car seems to be super quiet and happy now!

[OctyJackt]

4 hours ago, varaderoguy said:

Good call - I know how we love/care/cherish our beloved Octy's, but the Italian tune-up is really recommended for the TDI and TSI engines.  Nice tank of Super diesel or unleading will also help.  Its about getting heat into components (whether it be the DPF or Carbon Particulates Filter) and letting the re-gen processes kick off properly.  I took my TSI out for a 120 mile spin (for work)  - used the right pedal lots - car seems to be super quiet and happy now!

Cheers for this, ok now my next fuel will be the snazzy looking diesel I usually ignore

[cheezemonkhai]

I would still ignore it on a diesel and just give it a good drive from time to time.

 

Should it happen again it’s worth checking the better charge, the temperature sensors and coolant temperature sensors are reading as they should be and that the glow plugs are all heating.

Also has the fuel filter ever been changed?

[OctyJackt]

6 hours ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I would still ignore it on a diesel and just give it a good drive from time to time.

 

Should it happen again it’s worth checking the better charge, the temperature sensors and coolant temperature sensors are reading as they should be and that the glow plugs are all heating.

Also has the fuel filter ever been changed?

 

Will do, tx for your advice. I checked the battery charge twice a few days ago and it was at 70% then 80% which I take it is fine? Glow plugs all seem fine and no dash lights or other signs of anything unhealthy happening. Car has done 55K but all servicing looks very up together so I guess the fuel filters will have been replaced at least once ?

[cheezemonkhai]

Fuel filter is not necessarily due or part of standard servicing, but when I did mine I got a reasonable jump in MPG on long gentle runs.

The dealer charges a huge amount for it, but depending on where you are in somerset, I can point you at a very good indy if you need.

Edited 17 March, 2021 by cheezemonkhai

[OctyJackt]

1 hour ago, cheezemonkhai said:

Fuel filter is not necessarily due or part of standard servicing, but when I did mine I got a reasonable jump in MPG on long gentle runs.

The dealer charges a huge amount for it, but depending on where you are in somerset, I can point you at a very good indy if you need.

 

Checked history and fuel filter was replaced at 28k after 2 years, so will look to get it changed at next service in a year or so, and in the meantime look to give it the odd glug of premium deez. Click Mechanic are quoting just over £100 to change it on its own so presume (hope!) it will be considerably less if done with a service.

 

I'm in Shepton ... not intending to take it to Skoda for servicing unless some distant relative leaves me a lot of money as the previous services were done electronically by (what look like decent) Indys.

 

 

[Huffski]

My car has stopped with this problem ever since i have been doing 3 hour long drives twice a week. I believe its a battery problem. I will change it before next winter.

[OctyJackt]

2 hours ago, Huffski said:

My car has stopped with this problem ever since i have been doing 3 hour long drives twice a week. I believe its a battery problem. I will change it before next winter.

 

It could be the battery but I don't think so as I kept a check on the charge of mine when I was experiencing problems and it was always either 70 or 80%. At the moment my money is on a build up of pressure caused by too few and infrequent completed dpf regenerations, possibly exacerbated by cloggy fuel filter. If your problems have stopped now you've started doing regen-inducing trips then that might support said hypothesis ...

[Huffski]

Do you have the reader to see how clogged your dpf is

[OctyJackt]

No I didn't know that was a thing actually. But no dpf lights have come on or anything as yet ... and indeed the cranking delay has now completely disappeared since I gave it a high rev 30 mins on the A303, so for the moment, I think it's resolved (famous last words) ...

[foregonereality]

Apologies for reviving an old thread but thought I'd add here -

 

I have a 2015 VRS fully serviced at the local dealer and have had the same problem since the car was about 1yr old. I mentioned it while it was still under warranty and told the usual 'we haven't heard of that before' classic line. They couldn't replicate the problem as I had driven an hour to get there so the engine was nice and warm when they tried to start it.

 

I find that 100% of the time the car will start without bother if I press the start button once and let the glow plugs go out before then depressing the clutch and pressing the button again to start. I was under the impression the ecu would look after all of that so that I wouldn't have to do it the old fashioned way?

 

Does this problem still exist and Skoda simply don't care?

[Huffski]

I still have this problem. If there is heat in the engine bay and the engine is still cold it excessive cranks until firing up. If its a cold day it starts fine. If its a cold day and run the car quarter mile or less, turn the car off leave it a minute it will struggle to start again

[foregonereality]

I love my Skoda but I'm strongly thinking that my next car is going to be Japanese for the sake of not having to deal with these odd issues. 

 

I don't want electric, but I hope when that time comes either Hydrogen or Synthetic Fuels will finally be an option.

Edited 7 December, 2022 by foregonereality

[Gabbo]

I think this is a common problem on VAG diesel engines, I have seen several threads with the same.

In-fact my car has experienced the same thing for a few years. Dealer cannot find any problem & tells me long cranking of a diesel is normal (which is of course not true).

 

In summer I have no problems but around 10 to 0°C ambient temperatures my car can take up to 10s to crank (not always but often).

It is dead-cranking without any combustion, i believe no fuel is being injected during this time.

When its very cold, it will start almost instantly after the 3-4s automatic delay for the glowplugs.

 

I am 100% convinced this issue comes from the software/calibration & not from a fault on the engine/glowplugs etc.

I found an easy way to prevent this happening is to "abort" the first start by raising the clutch pedal (which cuts out the starter) if it didn't start in 2 revolutions.

Then press depress the clutch & press start again.

My car will start immediately 100% of the time afterwards, it could be that 1 or 2s longer gives the glowplugs more time but I believe that the fuelling of the 2nd start behaves differently & allows the engine to start.

 

My guess is this comes from injector or fuel pump/rail pressure learning algorithms which are not well adapted to ageing injectors (I have driven ~200k km currently).

However, I could not convince the dealer to reset these functions for me & I would have to pay myself for it.

 

I believe VAG could easily fix these problems, but I guess updates on a >10 year old engine will not come.

It would be interesting if the more recently diesel engines experience the same thing.

 

[foregonereality]

On 08/12/2022 at 10:36, Gabbo said:

I think this is a common problem on VAG diesel engines, I have seen several threads with the same.

In-fact my car has experienced the same thing for a few years. Dealer cannot find any problem & tells me long cranking of a diesel is normal (which is of course not true).

 

In summer I have no problems but around 10 to 0°C ambient temperatures my car can take up to 10s to crank (not always but often).

It is dead-cranking without any combustion, i believe no fuel is being injected during this time.

When its very cold, it will start almost instantly after the 3-4s automatic delay for the glowplugs.

 

I am 100% convinced this issue comes from the software/calibration & not from a fault on the engine/glowplugs etc.

I found an easy way to prevent this happening is to "abort" the first start by raising the clutch pedal (which cuts out the starter) if it didn't start in 2 revolutions.

Then press depress the clutch & press start again.

My car will start immediately 100% of the time afterwards, it could be that 1 or 2s longer gives the glowplugs more time but I believe that the fuelling of the 2nd start behaves differently & allows the engine to start.

 

My guess is this comes from injector or fuel pump/rail pressure learning algorithms which are not well adapted to ageing injectors (I have driven ~200k km currently).

However, I could not convince the dealer to reset these functions for me & I would have to pay myself for it.

 

I believe VAG could easily fix these problems, but I guess updates on a >10 year old engine will not come.

It would be interesting if the more recently diesel engines experience the same thing.

 

I think you've nailed it Gabbo. They're more than likely well aware of the issue but aren't too concerned given that they've moved on.

 

I have to admit it can be embarrassing when I forget to manually let the glow plugs heat up first as it can crank for 10s+ which sounds like an old tractor trying to start. Serious downer when the rest of the car looks well.