So try one with wider track to see,

then if it makes a difference fit rear wheels with a different offset, wider rear tyres or some wheel spacers. 

Cheap options.

Is tail happy not the sort of handling you want for Scandinavian / Finnish flick type driving..

15 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

 

Is tail happy not the sort of handling you want for Scandinavian / Finnish flick type driving..

 

Nope - this is the cornering fast with the back twitching between oversteer and understeer, making the car less predictable and the driving experience less enjoyable.

Also can be noticed when breaking hard and the rear has a tendency to try and get ahead of the front wheels.

 

A good handling car is neutral - the Megane RS, which I drove, belongs to this group. It was very well balanced and although you could also get the rear out, it was way more planted and much more predictable.

We know what good handling cars are and who builds then at the price of an Octavia, even fast estates that go stop and handle well.

Honda, Renault, Ford,sometimes  Audi, VW, Seat, Mercedes, Toyota, Subaru, Volvo / Polestar etc even Hyundai now.

 

Problem is you never bought a Renault with Race Tuning suspension experienced engineers, 

you bought a Skoda with 'Simply Clever' hype and spin & 'Motorsport Heritage' and Motorsport Success only most recently from Fabia R5 AWD's that Skoda do not sell to the general public unless chosen to take them rallying.

 

So what you got was Vw Group bargain parts and the 'vRS' trim and show without go, and suspension suited to a Family Car / Taxi just a bit lower and with low profile tyres more for economy and noise than actual sporting driving.

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

18 minutes ago, Awayoffski said:

We know what good handling cars are and who builds then at the price of an Octavia, even fast estates that go stop and handle well.

Honda, Renault, Ford,sometimes  Audi, VW, Seat, Mercedes, Toyota, Subaru, Volvo / Polestar etc even Hyundai now.

 

Problem is you never bought a Renault with Race Tuning suspension experienced engineers, 

you bought a Skoda with 'Simply Clever' hype and spin & 'Motorsport Heritage' and Motorsport Success only most recently from Fabia R5 AWD's that Skoda do not sell to the general public unless chosen to take them rallying.

 

So what you got was Vw Group bargain parts and the 'vRS' trim and show without go, and suspension suited to a Family Car / Taxi just a bit lower and with low profile tyres more for economy and noise than actual sporting driving.

 

You always seem to have an agenda to push - guess any topic will do for you, frankly

 

Guess a chip in your shoulder with something?

 

The Octavia VRS is a platform close cousin of the Golf GTi, the Leon Cupra and the Audi S3 - those are all great handling cars and great cars by any account.

If you don't like getting performance out of cars, you are in your right - but don't come preaching on every thread... It gets boring, really.

I am a fan boy, like sporty cars, just have my eyes open and know that Skoda build what they build and hype is just why the vRS name is devalued now by poor handling and not sporty cars anymore, it is a trim level.

That is not just about the Octavia, other models are just so so IMO.

 

'All great handling cars by accounts' but many of us drive them, and know why VW do the likes of the Clubsport and had to do a Clubsport S. Why the GTI was available with the Performance Pack...

Cousins and Sister cars from the VW Group do not make a Octavia vRS hatch or estate the same with 220, 230 or even 245ps.

 

Autocar fast Estate test this week is good, only the typo on 296ps for the vRS tells a story that needs addressing, 

the Octavia vRS is adequate but thats it, it is no Sports Combi.

 

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

It is a good balance of performance and space - large boot, spacious interior.

That doesn't mean the performance cannot be improved upon - a decent remap and some bits and bobs and it can be quite decent.

 

I beg to disagree with you - yes, in standard form it has some flaws, but there are things to do about it.

 

For instance, I love the Cupra looks and performance, but when I saw the interior space and boot size... It was a deal breaker.

You are sorted then, s good value estate, sort the suspension and handling out and you will have a well rounded vehicle.

That is why people do upgrades to vRS, GTI's RS, Cupra etc because they want better or different from OEM VW parts.

2 hours ago, Jaco2k said:

I don't think that Skoda did it for looks - they did it to improve the handling and stability.

 

I think they did it for looks. It is why many Octavia 3s they put on public show had spacers and suspension held down with ratchet straps. In a lot of photographs you can actually see the spacers through the spokes. It has been a big criticism of the design that the rear wheels were 'lost' in the arches.

 

2 hours ago, Jaco2k said:

My car is quite "tail happy" when driving in a spirited way, so I would like it to be a bit more neutral. I think a wider rear track will help with that...

 

Try a 10mm spacer. On the rear it will have the same effect. If you notice a huge difference then it may be worth doing a 'better' solution

 

On the front, changing the offset or adding a spacer (as opposed to moving the hub face) would in theory affect the handling and steering more, although with such a small amount I have never felt much difference in practice either way on either axle.

 

My money is on the change being on the length of the suspension arms for the multilink and the length of the torsion beam on others. That is cheap to do in manufacture and keeps the consumables (brakes, wheels, bearings and bushes etc) and complex castings (like the hubs) common with previous generation and others in the group.

7 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

I think they did it for looks. It is why many Octavia 3s they put on public show had spacers and suspension held down with ratchet straps. In a lot of photographs you can actually see the spacers through the spokes. It has been a big criticism of the design that the rear wheels were 'lost' in the arches.

 

 

Try a 10mm spacer. On the rear it will have the same effect. If you notice a huge difference then it may be worth doing a 'better' solution

 

On the front, changing the offset or adding a spacer (as opposed to moving the hub face) would in theory affect the handling and steering more, although with such a small amount I have never felt much difference in practice either way on either axle.

 

My money is on the change being on the length of the suspension arms for the multilink and the length of the torsion beam on others. That is cheap to do in manufacture and keeps the consumables (brakes, wheels, bearings and bushes etc) and complex castings (like the hubs) common with previous generation and others in the group.

 

Sounds plausible, but then we now need to cross-measure other components

 

I am currently on holiday and will only be back to my car on the beginning of next month, so...

 

Any takers from both the pre-FL and FL stables want to grab measuring tapes and get under the cars?

 

Easiest way to do this would really be with the two cars side by side, to be honest, but failing that...

 

Oh, and if we are now measuring suspension components, it would make sense to have it with VRS models

Try some weight in the rear since the estates and hatches need set up not just for solo drivers but as family 5 seaters, 

so suspension and ESP / Stability has to cope across maybe 300-400 kg weight differences.

Many do not drive with nearest and dearest in the car as sportingly as when alone for the safety of the nearest and dearest, but the suspension is set up to 

be safe and capable at max gross load, or should be.

They are no RS6 Avant , but then the drivers should know that.

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

Just had a quick look at the UK brochures...

 

FL non VRS has wider front track than rear track...FL VRS has wider rear track than front...

 

Golf still has wider front track on all versions by the looks of it.

 

Also had a quick look at various F1 etc forums & having a wider front track reduces the strain on the front wheels & reduces understeer & makes the rear easier to bring around  in a corner...

 

Spacers can mess up the scrub radius etc...

 

I prefer to bring my wheels "in" & go as light weight a possible...

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by fabdavrav

21 hours ago, rob_e said:

have you specifically ruled out the wheel having a different offset?  That would prob be the easiest change for the factory to implement..?

 

Isn't it only the rear track that has changed? If the wheel offset had changed the front would change too, assuming all wheels the same (fairly reasonable assumption)  

Front & rear tracks have been increase on certain models...

 

Right then facts from the brochures (UK)

 

MK3 Hatch:-

Front Track:- 1549mm, VRS = 1535mm

Rear Track:- 1570mm, VRS = 1506mm

 

MK3 Estate:-

Front Track:- 1543mm, VRS = 1535mm

Rear Track:- 1514mm, VRS = 1506mm

 

************

MK3 FL Hatch:-

Front Track:- 1549mm, VRS = 1535mm

Rear Track:- 1540mm, VRS = 1544mm

 

MK3 FL Estate:-

Front Track:- 1549mm, VRS = 1535mm

Rear Track:- 1540mm, VRS = 1544mm

 

FL hatch & estate are now the same track specs, & notice how the VRS has a narrower front track & wider rear track compared to the standard Octavia.

 

For this thread the rear pre FL is 1506mm, which FL is now 1544mm, so 38mm increase, 19mm per side, I wouldn’t like to try this just using spacers or different wheel offsets, as you will ruin your tyres & scrub radius etc., even on the rear. I recon it has to also include longer arms etc.

I'd agree; to effect that change in rear track without having different offset wheels front and rear, you would have to change the rear suspension arms and/or hubs.

Re different wheels of the same design, Audi manage that rather well where you can have a RS3 with wider front wheels if you want.

That is on a AWD.

Just think how easy it is to use a set like that but the wider to the rear.

 

As to different offset or and spacers on the rear do you think that people with the cars with the wider track as OEM might not still be fitting those, 

or have already?

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

4 hours ago, Awayoffski said:

 

As to different offset or and spacers on the rear do you think that people with the cars with the wider track as OEM might not still be fitting those, 

or have already?

 

I'm covering very old ground here & basic suspension design mechanics...

 

Yes you can use a different offset & spacers to widen the track & get the look etc. However you have problems if you go beyond what is considered the "rule of thumb" ..that 10mm each side above what the car came with from the factory is asking for trouble.

 

When you go above this you move the scrub radius way off what the suspension was designed for, make the handling worse, increase loading on the wheel bearings, which in turn increase more vibration into the wheel hub/suspension, resulting in worn bearings etc. way quicker than before..

 

The MK3 FL requires 19mm per side..try it with a different wheel & or spacers & that's way more force on the wheel bearing as you have moved the main weight of the wheel away from the bearing!

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by fabdavrav
splelling...

Yes there are so many out there asking for trouble, so just do not go 'one step beyond...' that would be 'madness'..

Edited 18 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

53 minutes ago, Frallan said:

I got h&r monotubes with lowering springs and 9" wide rims with et 41, so far no problems with the bearings, but the grip in rain "S" ucks. 255 25 20 was a stupid combo together with vacation trips with fam.

 

Might handle crap in the rain, but it sounds awesome! Any pics? Ha! 

But let's still try to find what the difference is

 

Does anyone know a Skoda mechanic that could shed some light?

...although, given my experience with the dealerships here, what they call mechanics here are a bunch of oil changers that plug diagnostic machines to cars and yap computer says 'NO' in a drone voice.

 

I am banging at this because I want to avoid the spacers - if I use them, I will go 12mm per side (not more, not less).

...or get some wider wheels with a different ET - most other cousins on the same platform have a different wheel circumference/radius, at 235 width instead of 225.

Yes, I've never understood why skoda has 225. I've had 3 a4's now, and only the b5 shared the 225 width as standard. For both the b6 and b7 the standard tyre width at 18" is 235. 

 

Don't give up! Haha

I have very good experience with spacers on my previous cars. Not likely something serious will occur, probably slight handling improvement.

 

@Jaco2k, interesting impression from your car. Could be that combi and saloon are different in weight balance so much that it affects handling. I am pretty much impressed how this car handles, especially braking. It brakes sharp as arrow, no dancing, very predictable. Please take note I come from nicely upgraded Alfa Romeo, which handled like charm, glued to tarmac.

 

Where I can feel torsional dance of the chassis is over bumpy roads, going straight. This may be severely improved adding spacers to the back. Upgrade of looks we all agree is beyond compare, as I have been driving besides and after FL vRS, back of the cars looks as pre-FL should have been.

 

Since we are talking about +19mm difference, I am seriously thinking of adding 20mm spacers to the back. Do not plan to change tyre dimension, as it seems 225 is more then enough for this car size and weight.

The Spacers & bearings issue is an interesting one, and has been for decades.

Ever since people without a clue and also those with all the gear and an idea and specific needs at different times might use them.

 

If anyone is interested then they should maybe look at the MSA Rule Book & Regs and use of spacers in Motorsports and where Spacers up to 25mm are allowable.

Then checkout who and where spacers are used in all sorts of Motorsport Events, and where they are not allowed.

Take into account that rear is quite less under stress due to front weight balanced car, so adding a spacer shouldn't actually influence bearings significantly. Spacer will exaggerate any weaknesses suspension, rim or tyre have. Car can suffer vibrations on higher speeds as a result.

 

Anyway, this is easily reversible process and as you can do it, you can undo as well. As I can see in this thread, cars are young, and not on the race track, so spacers should be fine.

 

A member in Qatar bought a Skoda CZ Show car which was a Mk2 Fabia vRS Body Kitted up,  a S2000 look a likey as they do.

Not sure if the pictures are still available of the billet spacers that they fitted to give it this stance.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/265505-my-skoda-fabia-s2000-built-for-the-street 

 

Edited 19 July, 20178 yr by Awayoffski

3 hours ago, nidza said:

Take into account that rear is quite less under stress due to front weight balanced car, so adding a spacer shouldn't actually influence bearings significantly. Spacer will exaggerate any weaknesses suspension, rim or tyre have. Car can suffer vibrations on higher speeds as a result.

 

Anyway, this is easily reversible process and as you can do it, you can undo as well. As I can see in this thread, cars are young, and not on the race track, so spacers should be fine.

 

That's an interesting piece of physics, where the load on a wheel bearing is dependent on the unloaded kerb weight on the axle rather than the rotating mass of the wheel and any offset between the centrelines of the wheel and bearing.

 

Could you supply a link to an English language version of your original research please?