Their gonna have to make to warning sounds very loud the way those Model S's can take off......

4 minutes ago, themanwithnoaim said:

Their gonna have to make to warning sounds very loud the way those Model S's can take off......

 

In a year or two the car will probably just detect postmen who look as though they are going to step out and stop.    

It's the new e-dog you will have to worry about - its bite is infinitely worse than its bark. 

On 24/07/2017 at 14:52, Gizmo said:

 

On the Tesla forums several links have been posted which prove that even taking the production and power generation into account a pure EV is still much less polluting than any ICE car.

 

 

 

 

 Doesn't that depend on the method of electricity generation, if you are getting power from the remaining coal, current Oil and probably some gas burning stations which still have to in the main have their fuel  transported in, was that factored into the Tesla equation ? along with most of these cars are sold in the USA and this is one of the top polluters on the planet so these claims are already looking shakey    

If Trump get his way the USA will be re opening coal pits !!!.

 

 With ref to charging,  scale up induction charging, which currently is a method that some electric toothbrushes and phones can be charged ? 

3 minutes ago, lfc958 said:

 With ref to charging,  scale up induction charging, which currently is a method that some electric toothbrushes and phones can be charged ? 

 

I think the Nissan Leaf can (or could) be had with induction charging.  I've thought previously that taxi ranks would work well with induction charging.   

4 hours ago, lfc958 said:

 

 

 Doesn't that depend on the method of electricity generation, if you are getting power from the remaining coal, current Oil and probably some gas burning stations which still have to in the main have their fuel  transported in, was that factored into the Tesla equation ? along with most of these cars are sold in the USA and this is one of the top polluters on the planet so these claims are already looking shakey    

If Trump get his way the USA will be re opening coal pits !!!.

 

Apparently they are less polluting than a ICE car no matter how the electricity is produced,

Obviously energy coming from a solar or wind farm etc will have almost zero pollution.

1 hour ago, Gizmo said:

Apparently they are less polluting than a ICE car no matter how the electricity is produced,

What about when you take into account the pollution produced to both manufacture and recycle the respective vehicles?

 

I remember reading an article a few years ago that compared the "whole life" energy usage and pollution from raw materials to fully recycled state of a Jeep Cherokee and a Toyota Prius....

 

The whole life figure for the Jeep Cherokee was lower. How come? Because the higher energy usage during production and more complex to cleanup byproducts of production caused by the more exotic materials used in the Prius (Lithium batteries, Rare Earth elements in the motors, etc.) more than offset the higher energy usage and pollution during the driving life of the Cherokee.

 

So we may be taking pollution away from where people are, but are we actually reducing the pollution on Planet Earth by switching to hybrids and EVs? Just asking...

2 minutes ago, SWBoy said:

What about when you take into account the pollution produced to both manufacture and recycle the respective vehicles?

 

That includes everything, from production to recycling the dead cars at the end of their life.

 

when you add all the environmental impacts, they still come out in favor of electric vehicles. (The Union of Concerned Scientists agrees; it found that even when you add in emissions from battery manufacturing, EVs generate half the emissions of a conventional car over the course of its life.)

 

Don’t get me wrong EV's are far from perfect... but it looks like they are still better than an ICE vehicle.

Just been searching company cars, the BMW 330e (249 BHP plug in hybrid, with a co2 figure of 44 g per K and a 9% BIK rate this year), works out with benefit in kind of £70 a month less than a 2.0 TDi Octavia. Even though the list price is about £9K more.  The Octavia has a BIK of 24% due to the 113 gram co2 figure. 150 BHP TDi or 249 BHP hybrid and £70 in your pocket. Skoda et al better hurry up with some hybrids.

16 hours ago, HotVRs said:

Skoda et al better hurry up with some hybrids.

 

Skoda have said their first will be a Superb PHEV in 2019. 

29 minutes ago, juan27 said:

 

Skoda have said their first will be a Superb PHEV in 2019. 

Well behind the curve...

16 hours ago, HotVRs said:

..., the BMW 330e .... works out with benefit in kind of £70 a month less than a 2.0 TDi Octavia. Even though the list price is about £9K more.  ....

 

Maybe this just shows how overpriced the BMW is. I know some think they are the Bavarian mutt's danglies, but having owned one of their badly made and expensive-to-keep-running motorbikes I can tell you they are not all that. 

26 minutes ago, SWBoy said:

Well behind the curve...

 

Depends how important the UK company car market is I guess. The BMW mentioned doesn't make all that much economic sense as a private buy.  

 

I think everything is there in the VW group parts bin (Golf GTE) to do a plug in hybrid Octy now, so presumably its a marketing decision?

Edited 3 August, 20178 yr by juan27

16 minutes ago, TDIum said:

 

Maybe this just shows how overpriced the BMW is. I know some think they are the Bavarian mutt's danglies, but having owned one of their badly made and expensive-to-keep-running motorbikes I can tell you they are not all that. 

I'm not a BMW fan boy, never even owned one, I'm under no deleusions and I think most are driven by idiots. I'm talking about money in my pocket, as I started with this topic if you don't have a hybrid right now, you are dead in the water with BIK going up at 3% a year. That's my only dog in the fight. I have had 5 Skoda's. Badly built might well be true of the BMW, (and probably is off many cars TBH), and for balance that includes my current Octavia 3 (currently 6 unplanned repair visits in 47K miles for the same thing) and the 2013 Octy 3 that preceded it which was so dangerous that the lease company had it returned to Skoda within a year as a reject, and some time before that a brand new Fabia vRS (MK1) delivered with defective ABS and a gearbox that would not engage 2nd when warm, that ended up with 3 'clutch adjustments, then a independent engineer report, and then a solicitor letter to Skoda who then had the box rebuilt and all costs refunded).  What it does show is that if you can lease a £34K BMW 330e for £45 a month more than a £22,500 (ish) Octavia 2.0TDi SE Technology, and then the BIK saving still leaves you about £35 a month better off - then the residuals on the Skoda must be poop to make those relative figures. These are company cars in the main, both the 330e and the Octavia, so no first owner is paying any repair or running costs are they are under warranty/included in the lease. 

Edited 3 August, 20178 yr by HotVRs
My keyboard can't spell :-)

1 minute ago, HotVRs said:

These are company cars in the main, both the 330e and the Octavia, so no first owner is paying any repair or running costs are they are under warranty/included in the lease. 

 

Is the Octavia mainly bought as a company car?  

56 minutes ago, juan27 said:

 

Is the Octavia mainly bought as a company car?  

I'm pretty sure you can use the internet as well as I. The majority of UK registrations are to fleets. The Octavia is a fleet car stalwart so it is a safe bet. Somewhat unlikely all those filthy dirty Octavia's banging up and down the Motorways all day full of 'stuff' are private buys, with 20% VAT and showroom tax...  Anecdotal as it is, I have never met a private NEW buyer of an Octavia, though I have met plenty of CC users. Even the one I bought privately (a lovely 2008 L&K 2.0 TDi PD) was ex LEX lease. 

3 hours ago, HotVRs said:

 Anecdotal as it is, I have never met a private NEW buyer of an Octavia, though I have met plenty of CC users. Even the one I bought privately (a lovely 2008 L&K 2.0 TDi PD) was ex LEX lease. 

 

I bought my current Octavia new privately in 2010 and have another new one on order for Sept delivery. 

Judging by posts on here l am not alone. 

I can honestly say I don't personally know anyone with an Octavia as a company car....which proves nothing of course. 

I do agree that currently a plug in hybrid seems a no-brainer choice for company car drivers.

 

Edited 3 August, 20178 yr by juan27

3 hours ago, HotVRs said:

I'm pretty sure you can use the internet as well as I. The majority of UK registrations are to fleets. 

 

I was genuinely interested in an answer to my question so I've had a search. All could come up with was in 2016 about 51% of overall sales were to fleets. Of course the market is hugely skewed by model. My expectation would be that the majority of Fiestas (for example) would not be company cars and the majority of Mercedes C class will be company cars. Just interested in where the Octavia sits.  

 

 

Edited 3 August, 20178 yr by juan27

The Fleet/Private split on the Octavia is 60:40 according to Skoda customer services. 

I dont really think this is a fair comparison.

Residuals for the Octavia are pretty low because of their high volume & BMWs are much more desirable second hand & hold their value well.

I'm sure you could lease a 330D BMW cheaper than an Octavia despite the difference in list price.

I can see EVs / plug-in hybrids becoming more popular in the near future, but as a private buyer looking at long-term ownership, they don't make sense...

- added weight of hybrid batteries affects handling (look at Golf/Passat)

- no real gains with non-plug-in hybrids

- battery only range is quite small for plug-ins

- if going for plug-ins, I feel they're only beneficial with longer battery-only ranges, to justify cost and disruption for installing the wallbox

- bearing in mind the wallbox and extra purchase/depreciation costs, is it really outweighed by the fuel savings?

- battery only could work for me (driveway) but range anxiety for trips in all seasons... what if we go to a holiday cottage, likely no charging point and sometimes no parking next to house?

- as a 5-8 year ownership for a private buyer with relatively low mileage, why choose a hybrid family (estate/large 4x4) car, over a petrol vrs? I may have similar total cost of ownership, but it's a more agile car and can burn off boy racers with family and flight luggage in the car!!

 

EVs could make sense for the second car (shopping cart), but they're too expensive compared to a Citigo/UP/Fiesta etc. 

 

I see these factors swinging the other way in 5 years time when it becomes more mainstream, efficient manufacturing and better battery tech comes into play. Tesla Model 3 is the start of that change.

48 minutes ago, Gabbo said:

I dont really think this is a fair comparison.

Residuals for the Octavia are pretty low because of their high volume & BMWs are much more desirable second hand & hold their value well.

I'm sure you could lease a 330D BMW cheaper than an Octavia despite the difference in list price.

 

I think the main point is that if the leasing costs are in the same ballpark for the company and the tax burden for the employee is so much lower on the hybrid then its a no-brainer to choose a BMW hybrid over a conventional diesel Skoda as a company car, and hence if Skoda want to remain in the fleet market they need to step up to the plate and offer a hybrid.

 

Under a different tax regime (like as a private buyer for example, or in other markets outside the UK) a BMW Hybrid doesn't have such a strong economic case, and is rather a niche product.

 

Edited 4 August, 20178 yr by juan27

You can get a £500 grant for the wall box, some EVs will even charge off a normal socket (a lot slower though) 

 

 Not all EVs are slow, 0-60 in 5.1 seconds for the long range Model 3, but yes at £40k they are dearer (and another £4,500 grant from the government)

1 hour ago, MattChr said:

I can see EVs / plug-in hybrids becoming more popular in the near future, but as a private buyer looking at long-term ownership, they don't make sense...

- added weight of hybrid batteries affects handling (look at Golf/Passat)

- no real gains with non-plug-in hybrids

- battery only range is quite small for plug-ins

- if going for plug-ins, I feel they're only beneficial with longer battery-only ranges, to justify cost and disruption for installing the wallbox

- bearing in mind the wallbox and extra purchase/depreciation costs, is it really outweighed by the fuel savings?

- battery only could work for me (driveway) but range anxiety for trips in all seasons... what if we go to a holiday cottage, likely no charging point and sometimes no parking next to house?

- as a 5-8 year ownership for a private buyer with relatively low mileage, why choose a hybrid family (estate/large 4x4) car, over a petrol vrs? I may have similar total cost of ownership, but it's a more agile car and can burn off boy racers with family and flight luggage in the car!!

 

EVs could make sense for the second car (shopping cart), but they're too expensive compared to a Citigo/UP/Fiesta etc. 

 

I see these factors swinging the other way in 5 years time when it becomes more mainstream, efficient manufacturing and better battery tech comes into play. Tesla Model 3 is the start of that change.

 

I totally agree, current 30 miles PHEV are completely pointless. More of a tax dodging tool than a real car. Might as well buy a long range EV.

 

Have you considered BMW i3 REx? I think it's the only viable hybrid worth considering. You get benefit of mid-range EV, and have a tiny petrol engine to fall back on.

 

 

 

After Model 3 delivery event last week. I'm completely sold on buying one. The size is similar to 3-series/C-class, but with all the benefit of owning a Tesla: free OTA updates, future autonomous driving capability, supercharging access. The best part for me personally, as a not fussy second hand buyer, is that the very very basic car looks good enough, any extras is a bonus. That means any second hand car at the right price will do. I can then purchase autopilot unlock through Tesla (ACC is a must for me). Unlike when buying current Octavia, I searched for 5 months for the right one with ACC installed and the right engine/gearbox configuration.

 

(just hope my Octy can last until I can buy a second hand Model 3, that will be least 3 years, more realistically 5-6 years)

1 hour ago, wyx087 said:

 

I totally agree, current 30 miles PHEV are completely pointless. More of a tax dodging tool than a real car. Might as well buy a long range EV.

 

 

Funnily enough 30 miles would nicely cover my daily commute.  But as a private buyer its not attractive due to the up front cost of a hybrid offering similar space to an Octavia.  

 

It does seem insane that we are making it tax efficient for sales reps to haul around all that weighty PHEV gubbins 100s of mile a day up and down the motorways.  I would imagine the real world  CO₂  isn't really significantly better and could in fact be worse?

 

Edited 4 August, 20178 yr by juan27
Speeling