Rear brake shoe alignment

[gordyboy1]

Hi all

 

First post to the forum.

 

After lots of searching I have come to ask the experts.

 

I have a 2002 Fabia hatch 1.9 SDi. When renewing the rear brake shoes, should the little lug on the cylinder piston be at the back to stop the shoes falling off the back of the piston, or at the front to stop it coming forward.

 

The reason I ask is that on both sides the lug is at the front, but the shoes seem to fit almost at the back edge of the piston

 

Cheers

[TMB]

Lugs on pistons should be at the front

[gordyboy1]

Cheers, do your shoes look to sit to the rear of the pistons??

[TMB]

6 hours ago, gordyboy1 said:

Cheers, do your shoes look to sit to the rear of the pistons??

 

Haven't looked at them for a while now so can't remember tbh.

 

I need to get into them soon as I noticed the drivers side rear has started to drag so something is seized up. I'm going to refresh the lot so have ordered a full TRW kit with shoes pre-assembled to the springs etc and new wheel cylinders. Only other thing it could be is the handbrake cable but I'll check that before installing the shoes.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/SKODA-FABIA-6Y-Brake-Shoes-Rear-1999-on-Set-TRW-Genuine-Top-Quality-Replacement/232361593917?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Edited 30 July, 2017 by TMB

[TMB]

...Nice TRW kit has arrived...

 

 

 

Just waiting for the 'glide pieces' to arrive from Skoda now as I want to renew them all (pic not mine)...

 

 

 

Also got new wheel cylinder bolts and drum screws....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 2 August, 2017 by TMB

[rum4mo]

Oh, I'm very jealous, now that is a proper refurb for the rear brakes - drums as well? 

 

New hub nuts bought yet?

 

I gambled on buying just a set of shoes for the late 2009 Ibiza, which cost me just over £20 on an ECP big discount period, I bought them before looking at these brakes as I knew from memory that I could not move the wedges up or down, I also bought a pair of hub nuts to make life easier I thought.

So when I removed the hub from the first side, I could see that with a bit levering with screwdriver(s), I could get the load off the wedge and remove it clean the area and refit it, that gave me enough of an idea how to attack the other side without taking the hub off, though it sounded like I did not clean the other side up as well as the first side as only one side made a "wedge moving" noise when I applied the brakes when everything was back together. I used a spot of "super lub" on all these glide pads, though as you probably found, they do end up getting a depression in they over time and replacement is the smart way forward.

 

Another Edit:- the reason for grabbing a set of shoes was that the last Ibiza daughter had, ended up, at about the same age, with many cracks across the shoes on its rear brakes, this Ibiza was okay when opened up.

Edited 2 August, 2017 by rum4mo
"that" was missing!!

[TMB]

4 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

Oh, I'm very jealous, now is a proper refurb for the rear brakes - drums as well? 

 

New hub nuts bought yet?

 

I gambled on buying just a set of shoes for the late 2009 Ibiza, which cost me just over £20 on an ECP big discount period, I bought them before looking at these brakes as I knew from memory that I could not move the wedges up or down, I also bought a pair of hub nuts to make life easier I thought.

So when I removed the hub from the first side, I could see that with a bit levering with screwdriver(s), I could get the load off the wedge and remove it clean the area and refit it, that gave me enough of an idea how to attack the other side without taking the hub off, though it sounded like I did not clean the other side up as well as the first side as only one side made a "wedge moving" noise when I applied the brakes when everything was back together. I used a spot of "super lub" on all these glide pads, though as you probably found, they do end up getting a depression in they over time and replacement is the smart way forward.

 

The drums were OK last time I looked at them. I can't afford to chuck much more money at it right now tbh.

 

Don't need hub nuts as the shoes can be fitted with the hub still in place. I will do what Wino suggested in another thread and fit the shoes first then open the top of them and slot the new wheel cylinder in.

 

I haven't inspected the glide pads but will renew them as a matter of course. They might have been on the car since it was new for all I know. There is a sachet of special ceramic grease in the shoe kit to put on them.

[indars]

19 hours ago, TMB said:

...Nice TRW kit has arrived...

 

 

 

Just waiting for the 'glide pieces' to arrive from Skoda now as I want to renew them all (pic not mine)...

 

 

 

Also got new wheel cylinder bolts and drum screws....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Installed same TRW kit too- but with TRW new drums and new handbr.cables. MOT passed, work brakes are ok- but handbrake still is uneven.

To be honest, handbrake never was mega strong and even in my Fabia- even when it was new.

Pity- because just tried 10 years old Hyundai Getz :-) with drum brakes- and blocked wheels on dry tarmac easy = works perfect. But possibly that handbrake self-adjusting system there is different.

 

Manual lowering of wedge? Tried- but after press to pedal wedge pops up in old place. Didn't greased wedges, of course.

Seems, manufacturing tolerances of are not really ok, hmm.

[Breezy_Pete]

@indars Did  you fit them with hubs in place, or removed?

I'm not 100% sure they will go, fully-assembled with all springs fitted, over the hubs? Seems a shame to have to partially dis-assemble them when they come fully assembled like that.

 

I have one spare hub nut I'd be happy to send you Lee; if you bought one more you'd have hub-removal as an option that you could fall back on?  If you don't use them you could just hang onto them for if/when a rear bearing goes.

[mogwye]

That kit is an excellent budget buy, pity they did not include the pads as well.

 

It further helps by being able to see how it all assembles on the backplate.

 

Let's hope the shoe material is good quality too.

[rum4mo]

I'd not expect that TRW do manufacture the shoes and friction material by the way, I cleaned up the brakes on my wife's August 2015 Polo and I could not work out which brake pad manufacturer - rebranded TRW and some VWG stuff added were fitted at the rear, the fronts were Jurid rebranded as ATE with some VWG stuff added.

 

Some of these rear shoe springs are beasts, in the past I'd frequently remove/clean/refit rear brake shoes, but I'd guess that the reason for offering these kits now is to avoid garages messing up or wasting time.

[indars]

3 hours ago, Wino said:

@indars Did  you fit them with hubs in place, or removed?

I'm not 100% sure they will go, fully-assembled with all springs fitted, over the hubs? Seems a shame to have to partially dis-assemble them when they come fully assembled like that.

 

I have one spare hub nut I'd be happy to send you Lee; if you bought one more you'd have hub-removal as an option that you could fall back on?  If you don't use them you could just hang onto them for if/when a rear bearing goes.

 

Hubs wasn't removed so I disassembled shoe kit.

But have done it many times and it's easy: just grab with pliers lower part of shoe and install it with lower spring preassembled to both shoes and upper spring preassembled to one shoe, with horizontal bracket.

 

[indars]

2 hours ago, mogwye said:

That kit is an excellent budget buy, pity they did not include the pads as well.

 

It further helps by being able to see how it all assembles on the backplate.

 

Let's hope the shoe material is good quality too.

 

Material is ok. But why pads are not included / why pity? There ARE pads/shoes on picture ;-)

If you mean glide discs (white ones)- they're cheap.

https://www.trwaftermarket.com/en/catalogue/#market=gb&vehicleType=P&manufacturerId=106&modelId=4383&vehicleId=|13362%2CFront+Wheel+Drive+(12%2F99+->+03%2F08%3B+100HP+%2F+74KW)|15107%2CFront+Wheel+Drive+(12%2F99+->+03%2F08%3B+75HP+%2F+55KW)&variantId=13362&productGroupId=70

All you neeed ^ excellent catalogue btw

Edited 3 August, 2017 by indars

[mogwye]

Yes Glide discs - But still it's a pity they are not included, a kit is a kit, but in this case you have to source them elsewhere.

 

DB.

[indars]

45 minutes ago, mogwye said:

Yes Glide discs - But still it's a pity they are not included, a kit is a kit, but in this case you have to source them elsewhere.

 

DB.

 

That's true, agree. Usually manufacturers don't include parts which is needed for some car models, but for some- no. But am not sure if this is that situation.

Same can be said about br.cylinder bolt- specific length and big shoulder...

In worst case you can turn glide discs for 90* and/or place the worst ones in upper or lower bores. And good ones- in middle bores.

 

In general, that VAG drum brake system looks ok- but it's sensitive to dimensions of all concerned components and tension forces of springs, hmm.

But that's just my personal/non-professional opinion.

 

Wheel cylinders is another story- starts to leak every time when I touch them- even for routine shoe replacement. If not touching- works fine for few years- but meantime handbr.lever starts to rust to pin...

Tried aluminum and cast iron versions, from different manufacturers- the same issue. Pitting on cylinder + teared seals.

Am replacing brake fluid every 2 years, am using handbr.daily, placed brake mounting grease under dust bellows- nothing helps.

 

So, at any drum br.repair am keeping new cylinders for spare ;-)

[TMB]

7 hours ago, Wino said:

@indars Did  you fit them with hubs in place, or removed?

I'm not 100% sure they will go, fully-assembled with all springs fitted, over the hubs? Seems a shame to have to partially dis-assemble them when they come fully assembled like that.

 

I have one spare hub nut I'd be happy to send you Lee; if you bought one more you'd have hub-removal as an option that you could fall back on?  If you don't use them you could just hang onto them for if/when a rear bearing goes.

 

Thanks for the kind offer, Pete. I will take you up on it. Will PM you my details.

[TMB]

3 hours ago, mogwye said:

Yes Glide discs - But still it's a pity they are not included, a kit is a kit, but in this case you have to source them elsewhere.

 

DB.

 

The glide discs (6N0609589) arrived today. They were 52 pence each from skoda. Bloody rip-off merchants

 

 

 

 

[indars]

6 minutes ago, TMB said:

 

I can't see any glide pads in the picture. All I see are the four circular retainers for the shoe hold-down springs.

:-) mogwye talked about pads but meaned plastic glide discs. But with word "pad" brake pad/shoe came in my mind and I commented. True, glide discs aren't in scope of trw kit.

[TMB]

Yeah sorry, I deleted my post when I reaslised I made a mistake

[indars]

1 hour ago, TMB said:

 

The glide discs (6N0609589) arrived today. They were 52 pence each from skoda. Bloody rip-off merchants

 

 

 

 

http://www.iparts.lv/search/m-6N0609589/l-1

price in Latvia

[TMB]

I don't know how much that is in our currency.

[indars]

3 minutes ago, TMB said:

I don't know how much that is in our currency.

1eur is 0.9pounds

[TMB]

Ah OK

[indars]

2 minutes ago, TMB said:

Ah OK

And that's not most friendly price ;-) That's official Škoda webshop here in LV.

[TMB]

I don't know why they bother with the glide pads. Every other car I've had just had the shoes rubbing against raised metal areas on the backplate. German engineering I suppose. Ha