Variable service query

[DH- Leeds]

Hi

Can anyone more technically minded (probably everyone on here) help me with a query?

I have had my new Superb estate (L&K 4WD DSG) since the end of July and love it.

One thing slightly concerns me though - the computer tells me (and via the app) that it is due an oil service in 10960 miles/475 days and an inspection in 15800 miles/613 days.

Does this sound about right? It'll probably take me another year or so to get another 11000 miles on the clock (4000 done so far).

Thanks

[penguin17]

There can easily be a disparity between the inspection service and oil service deadlines as the inspection service counts down in days since last service/reset whilst the oil service count down is dictated by oil quality and various other sensor readings.  As a general rule, the harder you drive the quicker the oil service will come around.   

 

IME the oil inspection does roll round slightly quicker in petrol models, I was getting 14-16k miles between services whereas I typically get 17-18.5k miles on diesels. 

 

HTH

[DH- Leeds]

Thanks - It seemed a long time to the first oil change - but if its all computer controlled these days I guess that explains it.

 

[nicknorman]

Yes this sounds right. However IMO it might be better to have the oil changed earlier, or do it yourself. My 280 would have gone to around 14,000 miles but I had it done a little early. One thing to be aware of is that some (probably most) garages seem to scam thus: The car is delivered with variable servicing and long life oil. But that means the dealer only gets to change the oil every couple of years for many people. So they change the service schedule to fixed servicing, that way you have to come back every year. They did this to me despite me saying I wanted it left on variable servicing so I took it back and made them change it back to variable!

 

Mind you, if you are not the DIY type perhaps an oil change every year is a good thing. But for me, the strategy is to keep it on variable servicing but do an intermediate oil change myself. I have just bought some Mobil 1 oil from Opie oils, a genuine filter from TPS and also the little plastic drain plug (the sump is plastic and has a plastic drain plug that you are supposed to replace each time you take it out). Around £15 for the genuine filter and drain plug, plus however much you want to spend on oil (£46 in my case, with a bit spare because these cars do seem to use a little oil). So the change is going to cost me £61 which is a lot less than the garage want, and probably better quality oil. I am by nature sceptical about garages but I will know that at least this time, the oil was drained not pumped out, the new oil is high quality and the filter has definitely been changed!

Edited 23 November, 2017 by nicknorman

[silver1011]

Variable service interval is up to 2 years or 20,000 miles, sensors monitor the engine and determine when it needs a service.

 

Fixed service interval is 12 months or 10,000 miles, whichever is reached first.

 

Given your mileage I'd be going for fixed to ensure fresh oil at least once a year (fresh oil is the lifeblood of any engine and turbo).

 

Especially if the car is privately owned and you plan to keep it long term.

 

Variable / long life services are designed for fleet mangers who are looking to minimise running costs over 3 years and not necessarily long term mechanical longevity.

[rtj70]

When I got my car in mid October the oil and inspection service were similar miles/days (not identical). After only 600 miles (mostly local and little motorway) the oil service is due in 14600 miles (down a fair few thousand from new) and 551 days but the inspection service is 19300 miles and 662 days.

 

Maybe the first service (oil) will be due within 12 months. The same engine/gearbox in an Audi needed the first service around the 2 year mark for me.

[Rainmaker]

I posted a thread about this exact thing a while ago. Skoda (the manufacturer) agree with everyone above. VARIABLE servicing is just that - it changes with the type of driving conditions to which you subject the car. Most other country's Skoda sites (eg .com.au) also agree. In fact the Aussie site goes so far as to explain all the oil diagnostic sensors in the engine (water content, viscosity, particulates etc) and how ignoring a variable servicing light WILL damage your engine. 

 

In their 'wisdom' however, my old (note, old) Skoda dealer said my service light coming on after about 11k and a year was 'too soon'. They wanted to reset the service light without doing an actual service. 

 

I rang Skoda UK, and their official reply (after some arguments from me, and showing them the owner's manual AND other country's Skoda sites) was that the dealer was correct. Variable actually just means fixed 2 year / 20k servicing and if the car calls for it any sooner, just reset the light and ignore it for another year. This is my last VAG vehicle. My wife has just ordered an S-Max and I'm replacing the Superb 220 with a Mustang in a year or so when it goes.

Edited 23 November, 2017 by Rainmaker

[nicknorman]

59 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

I posted a thread about this exact thing a while ago. Skoda (the manufacturer) agree with everyone above. VARIABLE servicing is just that - it changes with the type of driving conditions to which you subject the car. Most other country's Skoda sites (eg .com.au) also agree. In fact the Aussie site goes so far as to explain all the oil diagnostic sensors in the engine (water content, viscosity, particulates etc) and how ignoring a variable servicing light WILL damage your engine. 

 

In their 'wisdom' however, my old (note, old) Skoda dealer said my service light coming on after about 11k and a year was 'too soon'. They wanted to reset the service light without doing an actual service. 

 

I rang Skoda UK, and their official reply (after some arguments from me, and showing them the owner's manual AND other country's Skoda sites) was that the dealer was correct. Variable actually just means fixed 2 year / 20k servicing and if the car calls for it any sooner, just reset the light and ignore it for another year. This is my last VAG vehicle. My wife has just ordered an S-Max and I'm replacing the Superb 220 with a Mustang in a year or so when it goes.

 

Yes I remember it. Ridiculous! Anyway are we sure there is actually some kind of oil quality measurement? I suspect it is simply an algorithm that looks at how the car is used, eg long steady speed driving vs a lot of short runs barely getting hot. Thus it calculates what the oil condition should be, based on the usage, rather than measuring what it actually is.

[rtj70]

I'll have a comparison to an Audi A3 with a 1.4TSI COD/DSG and a Skoda over the next 12 months. The Audi needed it's first service of any kind around 2 years. Oil service due and so inspection service done the same time.

[Rainmaker]

5 minutes ago, nicknorman said:

 

Yes I remember it. Ridiculous! Anyway are we sure there is actually some kind of oil quality measurement? I suspect it is simply an algorithm that looks at how the car is used, eg long steady speed driving vs a lot of short runs barely getting hot. Thus it calculates what the oil condition should be, based on the usage, rather than measuring what it actually is.

 

The Aussie Skoda site does mention oil quality sensors, yes. A quick search also found this patent registration for VAG's oil quality sensor, which seems pretty definitive:

 

The chemical and/or physico-chemical determination of the ageing of a motor oil is very expensive and requires measuring methods which cannot be carried out on board a motor vehicle. The determination of only one oil condition parameter, for example the viscosity, only enables conditional statements to be made with respect to oil quality since conflicting effects may exist to varying degrees in this case. According to the invention, oil quality can be determined by a quartz base coated with a sensitive layer. The sensitive layer has a surface or volume which is adapted to an oil component and is suitable for the repeated incorporation and release of the oil component according to the concentration thereof. When the oil component is present, it is incorporated in the sensitive layer causing the resonant frequency of the layer to decrease via a mass effect or causing an effective increase of the component thickness or mass. As the oil ages, the proportion of the component incorporated in the sensitive layer decreases, so that the resonant frequency increases. A non-sensitive layer is used as a reference by which the viscosity effect of the oil on the oscillation of the quartz and the variation in viscosity of the motor oil are determined as a second important oil quality parameter.

 

TL:DR - Yes, there's a sensor. However they - like other OEMs - also likely use calculations based around cold starts, heat cycles, oil temperatures, engine revolutions etc.

[nicknorman]

4 minutes ago, Rainmaker said:

 

The Aussie Skoda site does mention oil quality sensors, yes. A quick search also found this patent registration for VAG's oil quality sensor, which seems pretty definitive:

 

 

 

 

TL:DR - Yes, there's a sensor. However they - like other OEMs - also likely use calculations based around cold starts, heat cycles, oil temperatures, engine revolutions etc.

Interesting but somewhat gobbledegook! There doesn’t seem to be measuring value in VCDS for such a sensor, which makes me suspicious, but I’m not in a position to argue!

[nicknorman]

This document, although a bit old, tends to suggest it’s just an algorithm that includes oil temperature. PDF doc

[Breezy_Pete]

The existence of a patent for something doesn't necessarily indicate that the thing ever made it out of the R&D lab.

[Ootohere]

If you own your car and pay for the servicing then service as to how you or others driving use it or intend using it,

location / conditions / mileage / have winter checks before a winter not bi-annually maybe. All depends obviously on how much checks and DIY you do yourself.

 

Tell those servicing what setting you want on the service indicator if you are paying for services. 

Service to Manufacturers Schedule / Guidelines or maybe more often seeing as the Manufacturer does not know you or how you use the car.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/regimes 

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/servicing/what-we-check-and-why/four-wheel-drive-oil-change 

 

DSG Service @ 40,000 miles and Haldex as well maybe,  VW above says 3 years on the AWD.

Edited 24 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[BriskodaJeff]

On 21/11/2017 at 21:51, DH- Leeds said:

One thing slightly concerns me though - the computer tells me (and via the app) that it is due an oil service in 10960 miles/475 days and an inspection in 15800 miles/613 days.

This is a surprise to me. On my poverty-spec 2013 SII (lovely car BTW) on fixed service regime there is only one service indicator. I was planning to run the new car (SIII coming in the new year) on variable - I do 30k+ miles a year and don't want it to be in the dealer 3-4 times a year. Does the above mean that I am going to have to take it in even more often? Or do you just get them to do the inspection service when they do the variable service?

18 hours ago, silver1011 said:

Variable / long life services are designed for fleet mangers who are looking to minimise running costs over 3 years and not necessarily long term mechanical longevity.

Interesting view, but not true in my case. AIUI variable service isn't automatically cheaper than fixed - you pay more for each service but have fewer done. I'm buying the car personally and it will be a keeper. Does the collective wisdom of Briskoda believe it is detrimental to the engine to put it on a variable service programme?

[silver1011]

Variable is cheaper than fixed.

 

A variable service is £269. A fixed service is £149.

 

Whilst the variable service is as the name suggests, variable, assuming your doing higher mileage it will be more cost effective than fixed.

 

Using your 30,000 miles annual mileage you'd be looking at 1.5x variable services in a year, so £403.50.

 

Compared to 3x fixed services at £447.

 

Doing 30K a year guarantees fresh oil at least once a year so mechanical longevity should be fine. Issues arise when those on lower annual mileage use variable and the same oil ends up circulating the engine and turbo over two winters.

[BriskodaJeff]

Thanks silver - the point on oil change makes complete sense. And I'm even happier if it works out cheaper...

[nicknorman]

31 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

Variable is cheaper than fixed.

 

A variable service is £269. A fixed service is £149.

 

Whilst the variable service is as the name suggests, variable, assuming your doing higher mileage it will be more cost effective than fixed.

 

Using your 30,000 miles annual mileage you'd be looking at 1.5x variable services in a year, so £403.50.

 

Compared to 3x fixed services at £447.

 

Doing 30K a year guarantees fresh oil at least once a year so mechanical longevity should be fine. Issues arise when those on lower annual mileage use variable and the same oil ends up circulating the engine and turbo over two winters.

Setting aside your typo on the first line, I don’t think this is the case. I’ve only seen one price for an oil change service, and another for an inspection service. There is no difference between a fixed oil change service vs a variable one both in terms of cost and what they actually do. Well I suppose they could use non-long life oil on a fixed service, but at our local dealers they assured me that they always used long life oil regardless.

[silver1011]

Typo? Variable is cheaper than fixed in the example given i.e. 30,000 annual mileage.

 

A fixed service @ £149 is oil and oil filter only.

 

A variable service @ £269 adds the pollen*, air* and fuel filters*.

 

For diesel engines the oil used is the same regardless of service type due to the requirement for long life (low ash) VW507.00 oil for the preservation of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

 

* these filters are only replaced "if required" which on most Skoda models isn't until 3 years old / 60,000 miles making the variable service a con on cars under 3 years old.

[Ootohere]

Nicknorman,

?
Do you mean the 'prices' in a Skoda National Fixed Price Serving site for Minor & Major Services on vehicles over 3 years old up to 10 years and on Fixed Service Intervals?

At Participating Dealers etc.   John Clark Skoda Specialist Cars.....

http://skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/simply-fixed 

 

You can get Menu Servicing if you want cheaper & with Long Life oil used, (tiny price difference anyway) either Non Participating or Not Participating on taking the Pith.

Maybe just not at John Clark.

Edited 24 November, 2017 by AwaoffSki

[BriskodaJeff]

Also - on my fixed regime I alternate between "standard" service at £149 and "major" at £349. So in a "good" year I would pay c£650. Fortunately I've never had a "bad" year...

[nicknorman]

14 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

Typo? Variable is cheaper than fixed in the example given i.e. 30,000 annual mileage.

 

A fixed service @ £149 is oil and oil filter only.

 

A variable service @ £269 adds the pollen*, air* and fuel filters*.

 

For diesel engines the oil used is the same regardless of service type due to the requirement for long life (low ash) VW507.00 oil for the preservation of the DPF (Diesel Particulate Filter).

 

* these filters are only replaced "if required" which on most Skoda models isn't until 3 years old / 60,000 miles making the variable service a con on cars under 3 years old.

On the “typo”, oh yes I see your point, which I think was that though the price of the services is opposite, the overall cost is as you said.

But no I still think you have it wrong. You are equating fixed service and variable service with Skoda Uk’s Fixed price deals of minor service and major service. The small print says both those apply to fixed service intervals.

 

 

[silver1011]

These are the prices they charge though. The small print stipulates for vehicles three years and older too, but my local dealer applies it to all cars.

 

Minor is another way of saying fixed, major is the same as variable.

 

Skoda UK like dressing the same things up as something different as confusion results in submission and acceptance.

 

There are only a handful of serviceable items; oil, oil filter, fuel filter, pollen filter, air filter and brake fluid (plus Haldex oil on 4x4's). All the rest is fluffy marketing.

 

More to the point they've put their prices up again, £159 and £279.

 

Anyone paying £279 for a variable / major service on a car under 3 years old or with less than 60,000 miles is not getting value for money. All your car will get is a £159 oil and filter service but the dealer will quite happily charge you £279.

 

Edited 24 November, 2017 by silver1011

[nicknorman]

10 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

These are the prices they charge though. The small print stipulates for vehicles three years and older too, but my local dealer applies it to all cars.

 

Minor is another way of saying fixed, major is the same as variable.

 

Skoda UK like dressing the same things up as something different as confusion results in submission and acceptance.

 

There are only a handful of serviceable items; oil, oil filter, fuel filter, pollen filter, air filter and brake fluid (plus Haldex oil on 4x4's). All the rest is fluffy marketing.

 

More to the point they've put their prices up again, £159 and £279.

 

Anyone paying £279 for a variable / major service on a car under 3 years old or with less than 60,000 miles is not getting value for money. All your car will get is a £159 oil and filter service but the dealer will quite happily charge you £279.

 

No, according to the small print I just published, you are wrong to say that “minor is another way of saying fixed, major is the same as variable”. This is the point, the small print says it is all for fixed servicing. Minor service is oil change, major is other stuff as listed.

[nicknorman]

53 minutes ago, AwaoffSki said:

Nicknorman,

?
Do you mean the 'prices' in a Skoda National Fixed Price Serving site for Minor & Major Services on vehicles over 3 years old up to 10 years and on Fixed Service Intervals?

At Participating Dealers etc.   John Clark Skoda Specialist Cars.....

http://skoda.co.uk/owners/service-and-maintenance/simply-fixed 

 

You can get Menu Servicing if you want cheaper & with Long Life oil used, (tiny price difference anyway) either Non Participating or Not Participating on taking the Pith.

Maybe just not at John Clark.

It is really confusing! But my car has 2 service “time to run” values. Time/distance to oil change service, and time/distance to run to inspection service. I think these equate to the two types of service offered by Skoda Uk I posted a little while ago.

 

Anyway, I paid £139 for an oil change service at John Clark, after I complained that they set the car back to fixed servicing they changed it back to variable, as per the boot label.

 

The thing with modern cars is that there is very little to do to them in the way of servicing. Change oil and filter ismthe most important, then occasionally spark plugs, air filter, brake fluid, coolant and obviously check wearing items such as brake pads. It’s not rocket science!

 

Longer term of course Haldex and DSG.

Edited 24 November, 2017 by nicknorman