Noisy car!

[wellsy1]

I will have to agree. My Mito was the 1.3 Diesel. And when you consider the Mito as half doors, it still seems to keep more external noise out of the cabin. However, I did like my mito. But had to go due to growing family. Was more comfortable and quieter than the Octavia all the way up to 80mph. However, I think the Octavia is def built better. Touch wood I never had a fault in the 5 years I had the mito. But some bits felt a bit flimsy to say the least 

[Gerrycan]

I have no experience with the VW 1.6tdi engine but 2k rpm at 70mph seems pretty standard for VW diesel compared to my old similar power output 1.9pd engine which (from memory) needed about 2100rpm at that speed.

Considering the number of 1.6tdi engines out there I can't remember a complaint about the noise from it until this thread.

A poor door seal will create all sorts of wind noise, even from low speeds. Mine got compromised once and was immediately obvious when on the move. In my case it only took a minute to fix it but it's a bigger problem if you suspect door misalignment or the seals are not up to standard.

 

I had a 1.9pd mk2 estate from new in 2008 and I was initially impressed by how quiet it was on the run but the rear wheels were not aligned correctly and the 15 inch Dunlop SportsMaxx soon developed a bad sawtooth profile that made an unbearably loud noise forcing their premature replacement and the associated  wheel alignment revealed how far out they were from the factory. The replacement Yokohama tyres were never as good performing or as quiet as the original Dunlop when new though.

 

The 17 inch SportMaxx on my current mk3 estate are now 3.5 years and 40k km old and nearly due replacement. They have been excellent in all aspects except possibly wearing a little early but they run quiet on all surfaces except very course tarmac but that is a common complaint across nearly all makes.

The thing is that I have had occasion to fit the smaller 16 inch 'spacesaver' (smaller than my tyres but standard size for some models) and the noise that one Nexen tyre ( it still has the injection 'hairs' on it so almost brand new) makes at all speeds is terrible. I had to put up with it for one late night 300km run from a remote country area and I can understand why others who experience that sort of noise complain.

 

I'd recommend SportsMAxx, except some others have had issues with them so I'm not sufficiently confident in their quality control to give them an unqualified recommendation.

 

The tyres you have usually do well in comparisons but you might want to check the profile for saw toothing because as said by others the Octavia seems particularly sensitive to this aspect.

As you have a torsion beam rear suspension that is unlikely to be at fault as my irs equipped mk2 was with its misalignment.

[wellsy1]

Good morning all. 

Thanks for all your advice. It’s such a strange thing. At the moment the car is going to skoda tomorrow and I’ve told them they can keep the car for a few days. Hopefully they will find something. Im feeling like I’ve made a massive mistake, not taking the car for a motorway test( however I’ve never needed too before) and going to skoda as a brand for the first time.  I’ve never had a car with 6 gears, so even those I appreciate 6 gears will help with cruising. At the speeds I travel I wasn’t expecting a issue. My old seat Leon , 1.9 Tdi  ( car is now 11 years old in the hands of my brother with over 100000 miles on it) still seems a lot smoother than my Octavia . Well if skoda can make a improvement, at least I’m on the right path and then I’ll look to sound proofing.  Because I’m not sure I can live with it. So as much as it will cost. Might have to trade in a car I’ve owned for less that 2 months! 

[brettikivi]

13 hours ago, carrock said:

Yes it's bitumen based but consider the following

 

The self adhesive on the pads is very strong, chances of coming loose is minimal at best. The pads are virtually impossible to remove once stuck down firmly.

 

even if it did, it's held in place by the underbonnet liner which is clipped in place.

 

Directly fixed above the engine is a plastic engine cover, also an oil based flammable product, a lot closer to the heat source than my bitumen pads which are 2 layers away again.

 

so thanks for your concern - but I'll take the risk of the bitumen pads coming loose, passing through the bonnet liner, THEN passing through the plastic engine cover, THEN resting on a bit of hot engine...........

The adhesive is on the rear, so on the surface that the sun will shine on in summer, no? You've seen the stripes on old Golfs from where the Waxoyl used to drip out of the tailgate when they got warm? I once had bitumen on the inside of the door panels of the A2. I took them off and replaced with Buytl. The effort to take them off was way less than I anticipated when heat was applied. If you prepped the surface correctly and the liner clips won't fail... and the engine cover is screwed into place. 

I see it as stupid and dangerous. Use the correct product (like Dynamat's dynaliner) - and it can't even work. The sound is transmitted as vibration through the body. You've got two options to limit its transmission: block it or add mass. 

 

Butyl on the rear arches will do both. Butyl on the firewall will do both. Mass on the door outside skin - either as butyl or MLV - will also do both.  The air gap which stops the sound moving forward is now no longer there on the bonnet, so I suspect if you measure it, the difference is minimal or non-existent. Sludge on the outside of the A2 made a difference but the black gold really helped when added to the rear footwells. STP Bomb on the inside at the front also changed the game. Butyl on the inside of the plastic interior cladding removed even more noise. 

 

Been through this, bought the products, partly regretted it, earned from the experience. 

 

Personal advice: butyl as much as possible so it can act as a blocker. 99% coverage still lets way more than 1% of the noise through. Then add mass, preferably with a small airgap (which is why the closed or open cell foam between the two is a good move). The Octavia door skins are quite open and could do with some serious butyl with the holes being blocked. The boot is probably the biggest noise source and easiest to deal with. There's enough examples around of real sound system installs in Octavias.

 

Temperature also makes a massive difference; tyres are a lot more brittle at lower temps and rubber doesn't seal as well because it's less elastic - so more vibrations will be transmitted through as well. Subwoofers don't / can't sound as good in a car at -10C as they can at +20C. 

 

  - Bret

[wellsy1]

18 minutes ago, brettikivi said:

The adhesive is on the rear, so on the surface that the sun will shine on in summer, no? You've seen the stripes on old Golfs from where the Waxoyl used to drip out of the tailgate when they got warm? I once had bitumen on the inside of the door panels of the A2. I took them off and replaced with Buytl. The effort to take them off was way less than I anticipated when heat was applied. If you prepped the surface correctly and the liner clips won't fail... and the engine cover is screwed into place. 

I see it as stupid and dangerous. Use the correct product (like Dynamat's dynaliner) - and it can't even work. The sound is transmitted as vibration through the body. You've got two options to limit its transmission: block it or add mass. 

 

Butyl on the rear arches will do both. Butyl on the firewall will do both. Mass on the door outside skin - either as butyl or MLV - will also do both.  The air gap which stops the sound moving forward is now no longer there on the bonnet, so I suspect if you measure it, the difference is minimal or non-existent. Sludge on the outside of the A2 made a difference but the black gold really helped when added to the rear footwells. STP Bomb on the inside at the front also changed the game. Butyl on the inside of the plastic interior cladding removed even more noise. 

 

Been through this, bought the products, partly regretted it, earned from the experience. 

 

Personal advice: butyl as much as possible so it can act as a blocker. 99% coverage still lets way more than 1% of the noise through. Then add mass, preferably with a small airgap (which is why the closed or open cell foam between the two is a good move). The Octavia door skins are quite open and could do with some serious butyl with the holes being blocked. The boot is probably the biggest noise source and easiest to deal with. There's enough examples around of real sound system installs in Octavias.

 

Temperature also makes a massive difference; tyres are a lot more brittle at lower temps and rubber doesn't seal as well because it's less elastic - so more vibrations will be transmitted through as well. Subwoofers don't / can't sound as good in a car at -10C as they can at +20C. 

 

  - Bret

Morning Bret. 

So have you done this to a Octavia? And if so what was your result? 

[brettikivi]

Hi,

no, I did it to an A2. IIRC, I dropped interior noise by  around 10dB (which means perception is that it's half the volume it was). @marko should be able to tell how much difference the stuff he's applied at the rear has made. 

 

I don't have the option on my lease car, but I'd be doing:

 - Rear spare wheel well and boot with butyl

 - rear arches with bomb or similar, so a massloaded butyl. The carpets should fit back on without problems after this

 - doors with a few strips of cutyl on the outside and then blocking open holes

- massloaded butyl on the inside of the front arches, butyl up the firewall where possible.

I'd want to check the temperature of the transmission tunnel in summer before doing much there. Another couple of pieces of bomb on the footwells at the rear should also calm that nicely. 

oh, and then the roof - definitely a couple of strips of butyl there to stop it being so tinny and then some foam to calm the echoes.

priorities for me would be the boot then the wheelarches, then the doors and then the floor.

 

It's work. But it should make a signficant difference. This might also help: https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/understanding-vehicle-noise

 

 - Bret

Edited 23 January, 2018 by brettikivi

[wellsy1]

3 minutes ago, brettikivi said:

Hi,

no, I did it to an A2. IIRC, I dropped interior noise by  around 10dB (which means perception is that it's half the volume it was). @marko should be able to tell how much difference the stuff he's applied at the rear has made. 

 

I don't have the option on my lease car, but I'd be doing:

 - Rear spare wheel well and boot with butyl

 - rear arches with bomb or similar, so a massloaded butyl. The carpets should fit back on without problems after this

 - doors with a few strips of cutyl on the outside and then blocking open holes

- massloaded butyl on the inside of the front arches, butyl up the firewall where possible.

I'd want to check the temperature of the transmission tunnel in summer before doing much there. Another couple of pieces of bomb on the footwells at the rear should also calm that nicely. 

oh, and then the roof - definitely a couple of strips of butyl there to stop it being so tinny and then some foam to calm the echoes.

priorities for me would be the boot then the wheelarches, then the doors and then the floor.

 

It's work. But it should make a signficant difference. This might also help: https://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/understanding-vehicle-noise

 

 - Bret

Thanks. Brett. 

Thats great. 10 decibel difference would be amazing!  However I know all cars are different . But would Def make a significant difference. Car is going to skoda and will go from there . I hope your don’t mind, but I may ask for some more advice when I start. Ie best place to buy the material etc, . I don’t really want to strip the car down, but if it makes my current daily commute a nicer environment. I’ll do anything ! 

[carrock]

2 hours ago, brettikivi said:

The adhesive is on the rear, so on the surface that the sun will shine on in summer, no? You've seen the stripes on old Golfs from where the Waxoyl used to drip out of the tailgate when they got warm? I once had bitumen on the inside of the door panels of the A2. I took them off and replaced with Buytl. The effort to take them off was way less than I anticipated when heat was applied. If you prepped the surface correctly and the liner clips won't fail... and the engine cover is screwed into place. 

I see it as stupid and dangerous. Use the correct product (like Dynamat's dynaliner) - and it can't even work. The sound is transmitted as vibration through the body. You've got two options to limit its transmission: block it or add mass. 

 

Butyl on the rear arches will do both. Butyl on the firewall will do both. Mass on the door outside skin - either as butyl or MLV - will also do both.  The air gap which stops the sound moving forward is now no longer there on the bonnet, so I suspect if you measure it, the difference is minimal or non-existent. Sludge on the outside of the A2 made a difference but the black gold really helped when added to the rear footwells. STP Bomb on the inside at the front also changed the game. Butyl on the inside of the plastic interior cladding removed even more noise. 

 

Been through this, bought the products, partly regretted it, earned from the experience. 

 

Personal advice: butyl as much as possible so it can act as a blocker. 99% coverage still lets way more than 1% of the noise through. Then add mass, preferably with a small airgap (which is why the closed or open cell foam between the two is a good move). The Octavia door skins are quite open and could do with some serious butyl with the holes being blocked. The boot is probably the biggest noise source and easiest to deal with. There's enough examples around of real sound system installs in Octavias.

 

Temperature also makes a massive difference; tyres are a lot more brittle at lower temps and rubber doesn't seal as well because it's less elastic - so more vibrations will be transmitted through as well. Subwoofers don't / can't sound as good in a car at -10C as they can at +20C. 

 

  - Bret

 by the way, when I refer to bitumen pads, its these products I use. Designed for automotive use

 

[SWBoy]

16 hours ago, Alpha2110 said:

My opinion is the car has a resonant frequency as with all cars. There are certain inputs, whether it be ground born, or engine  that excites this resonant  frequency. Coupled with road noise.  This all makes for a noisy car.

This is exactly what I posted a few months ago - having spent several years working on active noise control systems this was what we found with all cars and vans. The problem is that the frequencies generated are only a few hundred Hertz which need a LOT of expensive heavy sound damping material to absorb and heavier thicker metal to reduce the likelihood of the resonance being excited (both reasons why heavy premium cars are quieter). The only affordable lightweight solution is electronic noise control, but even that would only get fitted to "better" brands as manufacturers try to create a brand ladder.

 

Having an inline 3 or 4 cylinder engine is also the worst at exciting cabin resonances as they has the highest out of balance forces of any engine configuration usually used in cars - a V6 or a V8 would be much better!

[MorrisOx]

This is the key issue with cars like the Octavia: a lightweight structure which isn’t necessarily brilliant at absorbing nvh, components which tend to transmit it (the torsion beam back axle), and a brand position which doesn’t allow for high-level refinement. It is what it is.

 

Nevertheless, it does bother me that the OP thinks he might have to stick bitumen on to various body panels to overcome it. That suggests something more than the Octy’s basic weaknesses.

[carrock]

6 minutes ago, MorrisOx said:

This is the key issue with cars like the Octavia: a lightweight structure which isn’t necessarily brilliant at absorbing nvh, components which tend to transmit it (the torsion beam back axle), and a brand position which doesn’t allow for high-level refinement. It is what it is.

 

Nevertheless, it does bother me that the OP thinks he might have to stick bitumen on to various body panels to overcome it. That suggests something more than the Octy’s basic weaknesses.

 

Apart from the torsion beam axle, its identical in structure and powertrain to the similar A4s, Golfs and Passats which are much more refined. I continue to believe that it's cost cutting in the insulation department that is responsible for the majority of the issues raised. The Superb shares the same powertrain, chassis and structure and never seems to suffer the same issues. I'd suggest its' insulation is more in line with what is fitted to the VWs and Audis. Just a matter of benchmarking and upgrading the Octy to match

[MorrisOx]

That’s where its place in the pecking order comes in. The Superb has independent rear suspension rather than a torsion beam, and insulation the Octy doesn’t have. Ditto the A4, Passat etc. Yes, it’s the same basic architecture, but the components, connections, bushing, sound deadening etc are all of a higher order consistent with a pricier brand.

 

This is why I’m switching from an Octy to a Superb: to me, it represents the best compromise within the Skoda range between value and refinement.

[coloneldolomite]

I wonder what the level of refinement is on the new Karoq? If better, this may make a sensible option for some in the future.

[wellsy1]

From reading forums, and and reading vrs owners also seem to suffer. And considering the vrs I believe as independent rear suspension  . I believe and hope the main issue is lack of sound absorption’s and deadening . Therefore can be fixed or at least reduced to a normal lever as per other cars 

[nidza]

This is relative thing, depending from which car you are coming from. General issue is lowering the quality of such components, interior materials, etc, in affordable car segments. You must simply accept that you get quite a lot of the car, but with an unavoidable attribute ---> "for this money". Simple as that, you get a good value car, safe, performable, latest mechanical engineering and technology, but it is lacking some premium features.

 

Bottom-line, my vRS is definitely NOT a noisy car. Black one TDI of ours is a lot noisier. Of course, there are premium cars which are for a large margin better, but it is very individual whether you prefer to be totally disconnected from the road, or to have some sort of connection. My preference is to be involved, that's why I drive manual, but not in a way that it's is eating my brains. Therefore, I don't find any noise in the car as a problem, especially if Canton can kill it in every speed, easily.

 

And one more thing, wagons are significantly noisier then hatches or limos, that's more-less common thing. Keep that in mind.

[SWBoy]

1 minute ago, nidza said:

And one more thing, wagons are significantly noisier then hatches or limos, that's more-less common thing. Keep that in mind.

And because of the longer interior length of the cabin, the frequencies are lower which are harder to suppress/control.

[carrock]

I have a VRS wagon

#

I did the simple things first.

 

• Lined the spare wheel well and surrounding area with self adhesive bitumen pads (heated with a hairdryer to make forming to shape easier
• removed the boot floor and lined the MDF face with some jute/felt sound deadening

Made a significant difference

 

 

next I did under the rear seat and made a difference again

 

Will do the rear arches but a pain to remove the trim I think

[wellsy1]

Well hopefully. The noise i hear can be solved or suppressed based on what people are saying. Mine is the hatchback, and 16” wheels. So that should tick a couple of boxes for being quieter car in the range. Apart from independent rear suspension, however like I say. Again people on this forum have also complained about noisy ride, cabin etc on vrs. So maybe this is a issue. Also my previous cars, 11 year old Leon 1.9 tdi and alfa mito 1.3 Diesel. I’m not coming from premium brands. 

Ive come to expect my car will not be limo quiet . Just expected quieter that is it. Especially when you consider 22k when new. Now what I call cheap . 

[wellsy1]

Thanks carrock! 

Pictures are a great help. Like I say, if I can just calm the noise down and make my journeys to work more relaxed I will be happy. 

Also , one think I can say. Considering I only started this thread yesterday. The help and comments from fellow skoda drivers as been great. Maybe me moving over to skoda as not all been a mistake yet 

[Croat]

3 hours ago, carrock said:

I have a VRS wagon

#

I did the simple things first.

 

• Lined the spare wheel well and surrounding area with self adhesive bitumen pads (heated with a hairdryer to make forming to shape easier
• removed the boot floor and lined the MDF face with some jute/felt sound deadening

Made a significant difference

 

 

next I did under the rear seat and made a difference again

 

Will do the rear arches but a pain to remove the trim I think

 

More pictures please!

[Alpha2110]

6 hours ago, SWBoy said:

This is exactly what I posted a few months ago - having spent several years working on active noise control systems this was what we found with all cars and vans. The problem is that the frequencies generated are only a few hundred Hertz which need a LOT of expensive heavy sound damping material to absorb and heavier thicker metal to reduce the likelihood of the resonance being excited (both reasons why heavy premium cars are quieter). The only affordable lightweight solution is electronic noise control, but even that would only get fitted to "better" brands as manufacturers try to create a brand ladder.

 

Having an inline 3 or 4 cylinder engine is also the worst at exciting cabin resonances as they has the highest out of balance forces of any engine configuration usually used in cars - a V6 or a V8 would be much better!

I agree, entirely, i have been posting this for considerably longer!

 

I have experimented with various 3d vibration sensors and i dont have anything meaningful to post its very difficult to measure, i have tried phone apps, and cheep accelerometers, then done an fft, i cant determine any meaningful results to the exact resonant frequency.  I would say the car needs to be rigged up to a full telemetry data logger such as the race tech or racelogic systems where engine rpm can be recorded also fast data acquisition for the various vibration sensors needed. Also the frequencies that are of interest are very low sub 500Hz very difficult to mesure using microphones, i used a cheep 3d accelerometer. 

 

I dont think the reason thay dont use sound proofing is not down to expence alone, its heavy stuff, as thats how it works. There is a fair few kgs of the stuff by the time you plaster it on every panel, doors, roof, floor. What effect does this have on fuel efficiency? For a car that has sketchy MPG figures to begin with!

 

 

 

 

 

[Mence]

If yours isn't fitted with one, you can buy the under bonnet acoustic  pad from Superskoda, should help a bit. 

[brettikivi]

1 hour ago, Alpha2110 said:

I agree, entirely, i have been posting this for considerably longer!

 

I have experimented with various 3d vibration sensors and i dont have anything meaningful to post its very difficult to measure, i have tried phone apps, and cheep accelerometers, then done an fft, i cant determine any meaningful results to the exact resonant frequency.  I would say the car needs to be rigged up to a full telemetry data logger such as the race tech or racelogic systems where engine rpm can be recorded also fast data acquisition for the various vibration sensors needed. Also the frequencies that are of interest are very low sub 500Hz very difficult to mesure using microphones, i used a cheep 3d accelerometer. 

 

I dont think the reason thay dont use sound proofing is not down to expence alone, its heavy stuff, as thats how it works. There is a fair few kgs of the stuff by the time you plaster it on every panel, doors, roof, floor. What effect does this have on fuel efficiency? For a car that has sketchy MPG figures to begin with!

Convolution in real-time is probably possible.. that's my idea - you'd record a standard road at, say, 80km/h, invert and add to the sound. But you need decent speakers because you'll end up putting quite a lot of low frequencies through.

 

 - Bret

[wellsy1]

Good morning, 

well first step as begun. Car just dropped off at skoda. Fingers crossed they can find something wrong with door seals or tracking etc. Any small improvement, and then I can surely improve from there. Also test drive of other Octavia sorted at dealer. 

I think this is the first time I’ve sent a car to a dealer, WANTING them to find something. 

 

[HotVRs]

The Octavia is a bit noisy, I have a 2.0TDi estate on 17's and road/tyre noise is prominent. I had a 1.6TDi as a courtesy car and the engine noise at speed was noticeable worse at motorway speed than the 2.0 TDi. You get used to it but it's a shame they never made more of an effort with sound proofing, it seems to be one of the areas where they saved money compared to the Golf/Passat etc, they have to get that purchase down somehow I guess...

Edited 24 January, 2018 by HotVRs