Skoda Felicia 1.3 MPI Cold Start issue and other gremlins

[warbuli]

Hi all,

 

I am recently having some issues with my Felicia 1.3mpi (68kw) engine and hope that maybe you could give me some pointers on what I  could check or do to fix them. 

 

1st Problem: Cold start: 

• This happens whenever the car has been sitting for a long time say 9 - 10 hours both indoors (garage) and outdoors (at work) once!.
• When I try to start the car in most cases the engine starts.. barely with very low revs (100-200 ish) for a few seconds (say 2-8 seconds) and then comes to life as if nothing happened. Whilst it is low revving if I press the gas pedal it dies but if I blip the throttle in most cases I manage to get it to rev normally. After this ordeal it Revs ok and if I turn it off an try to start it again it starts fine. In some cases after starting if I rev it say to 3.5k let it drop and around 1.5k press the gas pedal it kind of hesitates to rev back up and in some cases causes some backfires (inside the throttle body)

2nd issue: 

• This happens whilst driving mostly between 1.8 - 2k revs anytime although I have noticed it more whenever I drive with the lights on.
• Driving between 1.8k - 2k revs with no particular heavy load or trying to accelerate, I feel the engine as if it is loosing and regaining power rapidly (making the car rock  very subtle not violent ). What I also notice is the headlamps flickering.  It is very hard to describe this..

 

This is what I have done so far:

1. Checked for error codes using OBD1: 
   1. Found one error: 00537 - Lambda oxygen sensor Regulation 19-10 - Lower Limit - Intermittent
      1.  I observed this error code before the mentioned issues started happening and keeps showing up even after clearing it up and changing the lambda sensor twice. (currently have a new one fitted)
2.  Did a full service including:
   1. Oil, oil filter, air filter, sparkplugs, coolant, and the pesky fuel filter near the fuel tank.
3. Cleaned throttle body and reset it. 
4. Changed Coil Pack to a fairly unused one. 
5. Checked if coolant was entering cylinders by:
   1.  Checking water level in tank: stays the same level
   2.  Removing plugs and they where bone dry
   3.  Cranking engine with spark plugs off and injectors unplugged: No vapor or liquid of any kind was observed to come out of spark plug holes.
   4.  Checked for mayo in oil cap: found none.
6. Changed crank sensor and coolant sensor. 
7. Checked wiring loom plugs for corrosion.
   1. Found a tiny bit of green corrosion in lambda sensor plug (female side) and cleaned it off as best as I could with a very small bottle wire brush looking thingy and contact cleaner.
   2. Same for Map sensor plug
8. Checked alternator output:
   1. no load at idle : fluctuates between 14 - 14.7v
   2. With lights and blower running at full blast at idle, the reading was  11.4v
      1. if i rev up it rises to 14v

 

P.s. I was checking parameters whilst the engine was running and in Group 5 I was noticing two different temperature values. is this normal? (I have attached a screenshot) 

Also not sure if relevant, however my catalytic convertor is hollowed out so basically it is a straight through pipe.  

 

Sorry for the long post but I tried to include as much detail as possible. If you need running logs please let me know which group channels and I will record a run from home to work or back with those values.

 

Thanks in advance.

Edited 15 February, 2018 by warbuli

[RicardoM]

27 minutes ago, warbuli said:

no load at idle : fluctuates between 14 - 14.7v

This is not right.

How confident are you the voltage regulator is good?

How old is the battery? Can you borrow a known good one for testing?

If the same issues, I would then suspect the alternator.

 

Note: change one thing at a time then do a test. Never change two or more parts at once. We're trying to isolate the problem.

My strategy is to know first that the electrical system, the battery, the alternator and the charging are OK. We'll continue from there.

 

PS

Did you clean the pressure/air temperature sensor?

[warbuli]

3 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

This is not right.

How confident are you the voltage regulator is good?

How old is the battery? Can you borrow a known good one for testing?

If the same issues, I would then suspect the alternator.

 

Note: change one thing at a time then do a test. Never change two or more parts at once. We're trying to isolate the problem.

My strategy is to know first that the electrical system, the battery, the alternator and the charging are OK. We'll continue from there.

 

PS

Did you clean the pressure/air temperature sensor?

 

Thanks for your fast reply. 

 

The voltage regulator was the one that came with the second hand alternator that i bought off a 40,000 km motor and from what I remember its contact points are a bit shorter than when new.

 

The battery is a tad old (maybe 4 years old ) I will check tomorrow morning  could it be causing these issues?

 

With regards to changing stuff. That is what I was doing. In fact I came here as a last resort because I have been at it for the last 3 months I think. 

 

And yes I did clean the pressure/ air temperature sensor.

[RicardoM]

9 hours ago, warbuli said:

The battery is a tad old (maybe 4 years old ) I will check tomorrow morning  could it be causing these issues?

Well, yes. A dying battery is the first thing to check. There are several topics in this section that hover around this issue. Not all batteries die abruptly. In fact many have the bad habit to fail intermittently depending on their technology and quality.

Of course that the next thing to check is the alternator. A bad voltage regulator or a bad bridge rectifier can cause all kinds of issues to ECU.

A special care should be taken also to ground cable for the battery and the ground points.

 

One more thing. Error code 00537 can have multiple causes, not only the oxygen sensor. Since the error is still permanent, you should concentrate on the remaining possibilities. Start with the vacuum leaks. Look for cracked/collapsing hoses and the gasket under the throttle body.

• Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Lambda Sensor(s) faulty
• Lambda Control/Sensor(s) faulty
• Injector(s) faulty/blocked
• Fuel Pressure Regulator faulty
• Fuel Pump faulty
• Fuel Tank empty
• Vacuum/air leaks

I know this is not an easy one. You need patience to gather evidence after careful diagnosis.

[warbuli]

36 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Well, yes. A dying battery is the first thing to check. There are several topics in this section that hover around this issue. Not all batteries die abruptly. In fact many have the bad habit to fail intermittently depending on their technology and quality.

Of course that the next thing to check is the alternator. A bad voltage regulator or a bad bridge rectifier can cause all kinds of issues to ECU.

A special care should be taken also to ground cable for the battery and the ground points.

 

One more thing. Error code 00537 can have multiple causes, not only the oxygen sensor. Since the error is still permanent, you should concentrate on the remaining possibilities. Start with the vacuum leaks. Look for cracked/collapsing hoses and the gasket under the throttle body.

• Wiring and/or Connector(s) from/to Lambda Sensor(s) faulty
• Lambda Control/Sensor(s) faulty
• Injector(s) faulty/blocked
• Fuel Pressure Regulator faulty
• Fuel Pump faulty
• Fuel Tank empty
• Vacuum/air leaks

I know this is not an easy one. You need patience to gather evidence after careful diagnosis.

 

Update:

• Checked the voltage regulator today and it had almost no points left... 
  • Luckily I have a spare alternator that I had refurbished recently and it has a new voltage regulator... 
  • Swapped it and the alternator is now throwing 14.05v at idle and goes down to around 13.9v when engine is revved.

It still did not start properly although the new voltage regulator still had to seat properly so I will see what happens this afternoon. I did notice the engine to run smoother with no bogging though so hopefully I solved something. 

 

Battery:

• Date is listed as: 05/14 so it is getting a bit old
• Checked voltage before starting the car up and its around 11.75v 

 

With regards to Error code 00537 I will look into the points that you provided.

 

Thanks again 

 

[nimbus]

Does the Felicia use OBD1 ?

[warbuli]

2 hours ago, nimbus said:

Does the Felicia use OBD1 ?

 

Yes it does. 

[RicardoM]

13 hours ago, warbuli said:

Checked voltage before starting the car up and its around 11.75v

This corresponds to 30% charged.

 

[warbuli]

On 2/16/2018 at 23:21, RicardoM said:

This corresponds to 30% charged.

 

 

Thanks for this. I will check the voltage tomorrow morning again and if its the same I will change the battery. 

 

So far after changing the regulator, morning starts have become worse. 

• It turns and as soon as the engine kind of turns on it shuts off immediately. 
• Then I try to turn it on again and it does the same.
• After 3-5 times it starts and runs fine. 

What I have noticed: 

• After trying to start it the first time, if i turn the ignition off and on I hear the fuel pump running but it never stops running. 
• Sometimes very rarely, whilst I am driving and try to accelerate it kind of bogs down and comes back to normal instantly. 

Maybe the fuel regulator is going bad? 

 

I have a space engine loom with the lambda plug cut off which I will be fixing, checking and trying very soon to eliminate the possibility of having bad wiring issues and let you know how it all goes. 

 

Thanks again for all the help

[RicardoM]

Without having the evidence, my suspicion is that the fuel pump is dying and probably the fuel pump relay too. My opinion is based on the pattern of reliability for Felicia parts but also on some of your recent observations.

Normally you should measure with a manometer the fuel pressure in the fuel feed pipe. Normal pressure is 3 bar.

Edited 19 February, 2018 by RicardoM

[warbuli]

On 2/19/2018 at 16:49, RicardoM said:

Without having the evidence, my suspicion is that the fuel pump is dying and probably the fuel pump relay too. My opinion is based on the pattern of reliability for Felicia parts but also on some of your recent observations.

Normally you should measure with a manometer the fuel pressure in the fuel feed pipe. Normal pressure is 3 bar.

 

Small Update... As soon as I started to check voltages and unplugging the battery every night (in case something was draining the battery), I started having to jump start the car almost every day.  Since then I have changed the battery and the car is now cranking way faster and starting up first try with minimal issues. Engine hesitates just as soon as it starts and for a few micro seconds. 

 

In the mean time I am still noticing cases when the engine cuts out whilst driving so I will be monitoring the fuel pump and wiring gremlins that might be causing the issues. thanks again for your help  I will keep you posted if I change/ find something else that is wrong. 

P.S. I am finding myself having to change rear wheel bearings almost every year (both sides). I am running the car with 195 width Tyers. Could this be an issue? or maybe I am using bearings that are being manufactured using inferior materials? What make do you suggest? Thanks.

[KenONeill]

@warbuli Ref the PS.

 

You're running much wider tyres than standard. Have you changed the hub centre offset? (That's the distance from where the kingpin axis meets the ground to the middle of the tyre) If so, then that does increase the thrust loadings on the wheel bearings.

 

As for getting quality bearings, I always buy SKF and expect at least 60_000 miles.

[warbuli]

10 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

@warbuli Ref the PS.

 

You're running much wider tyres than standard. Have you changed the hub centre offset? (That's the distance from where the kingpin axis meets the ground to the middle of the tyre) If so, then that does increase the thrust loadings on the wheel bearings.

 

As for getting quality bearings, I always buy SKF and expect at least 60_000 miles.

 

I have Lenso gt-r wheels. From the looks of it the offset is around 35-40 (not sure if correct). Is this too much from standard?  I am getting around 9,000 km out of the bearings.  I am thinking that maybe the bearings are not so good because they don't even come with a new bearing cap (certainly not cheap though). 

[RicardoM]

Re. the battery: although changing the battery was a good move, I think there still is a parasitic load on the electrical system that you need to address. A brand new battery might mask the issue for a while. So you have to check the current drawn from the battery (in series with negative wire going from negative battery to earth) with ignition key off, doors and tailgate closed. Maximum allowed current is 25 mA. Anything higher and you have to remove the fuses one after the other checking each time the current drawn from the battery. The moment the current drops, check interrupted circuit.

 

Re. the rear bearings: although putting wider rear wheels is not recommended by Skoda, two things are more important:

• what load you carry in the trunk?
• how much you tighten the nut and how?

[warbuli]

On 3/8/2018 at 00:44, RicardoM said:

Re. the battery: although changing the battery was a good move, I think there still is a parasitic load on the electrical system that you need to address. A brand new battery might mask the issue for a while. So you have to check the current drawn from the battery (in series with negative wire going from negative battery to earth) with ignition key off, doors and tailgate closed. Maximum allowed current is 25 mA. Anything higher and you have to remove the fuses one after the other checking each time the current drawn from the battery. The moment the current drops, check interrupted circuit.

 

Re. the rear bearings: although putting wider rear wheels is not recommended by Skoda, two things are more important:

• what load you carry in the trunk?
• how much you tighten the nut and how?

 

Thanks for that. I meant to check the current drawn for a while but never knew how to do it. 

 

With regards the rear bearings:

I have some stuff in the trunk...  spare wheel, jack, toolbox and some speakers but nothing super heavy. The thing that may have also affected the bearings was the fact that I had lowered the car using lowering springs by 4cm. But since then I put it back to stock height so will have to see if the new bearings will last longer now.

I just bought SKF bearing kit and will change them when they arrive. 

 

Usually we tighten the nut until there is some friction when you try to turn the drum so that its not loose but not too tight. 

[RicardoM]

1 hour ago, warbuli said:

I have some stuff in the trunk...

I meant to ask if you use the car to carry heavy loads in the vicinity of maximum admissible weight. You don't. A modified suspension may wear the bearings prematurely.

1 hour ago, warbuli said:

Usually we tighten the nut until there is some friction when you try to turn the drum so that its not loose but not too tight.

There is a recommended procedure shown below. Correct play has an important role in the life of a bearing.

 

PS

It is possible to reply without pressing the Quote button. You can either quote part of a message by selecting it first then clicking on the floating button that will show (Quote This) or you can reply without quoting anything by writing directly in the form at the bottom of the page.

[KenONeill]

@warbuli As in Ricardo's PS; also, if you type an @ character and then start typing a user's name you'll get a list of possible users that you want to have notified of your reply. When you see the one you want, left-click on it and it will appear highlighted in white on green like your's does here. (presumes you're using a computer and not a "smart" phone)

[warbuli]

@KenONeill sure thanks. I did not know about this feature.

 

Just a quick update. I had received the SKF bearings and fitted them to the car. Following the procedure provided by @RicardoM (found the others to be totally destroyed) So far it seems like the new ones are holding up with no issues. 

 

A few weeks after my secondhand battery died so I bought a new one and I did not have any more starting/cranking issues.

 

I was still having starting issues/hesitation when cold and some flat spots whilst running. I bought a new temperature sensor (with Yellow circle) and a crank positioning sensor. 

 

I first changed the crank positioning sensor ( the old one had a dent in it ) and found that it had some metal filings stuck to it. After changing the CPS I noticed that it was starting way better and most of the flat spots also stopped occurring.

 

After a few weeks, I changed the temperature sensor. I noticed the temperature to rise quicker and to stay slightly higher than what it used to mark. Performance and starting also improved. So far so good. I have also noticed that it's not over-fueling (way less popping from the exhaust and no more backfires). 

 

It is still starting with low idle at times when cold. Do you suggest checking the throttle body and resetting it?

 

[KenONeill]

@warbuli - Well, you've got the notify down now.

 

One way of resetting a throttle body is to get home at night, disconnect the battery, and re-connect next morning, but make sure you have the radio code before doing this!

[warbuli]

@KenONeill Yes I have haha.

 

I have got an OBD1 port reader and had reset the throttle body a few times so its not a problem. I was just wondering if it would make a difference. 

 

P.S. Is there a thread detailing how to re-code an ecu? I had bought one from a scrapyard and would like to have it working with my key. 

 

Thanks

[KenONeill]

@warbuli - I don't know how to recode an ecu, and that info isn't normally posted in open forum anyway as potentially aiding car thieves.

[Thefeliciahacker]

i dont think thats needed 
i had the battery unplugged from my car for a lot of days without any issue
The only thing that you should NOT mess with is the immobiliser because that WILL give you headaches
As for the technicall part
I would clean every sensor and thb 
Would reset valves
Check for fuel pressure 
Clean fuel injectors
Ps check for vacuum leaks
And something that i dont know why but it helped my car substantially is
Open filter box take air filter out
Under there you should see a spring operated flap
Go ahead and lube (silicon spray) its mechanism and pivot points
My car used to have jittering behaviour under heavy load applications 
Cleaning and resetting the thb fixed half of that 
A minor vacuum leak helped even more
And the car got refined completely after doing the lubrication
I also did it to an older felly 1994 and it even helped that car
Hope i helped