Some cars do different things on snow.

I had an audi coupe with 2wd and the 5 cylinder engine.

No abs or anything back then. On slipperry surfaces such as snow or ice the engine had a habit of stopping when applying the brake. eg touch brake, front wheels lock up instantly, engine stops. Foot off brake and car continues to slide on locked up wheels as still in gear with engine stopped with no steering possible.

I had to learn to depress the clutch immediately on starting to brake in those conditions to keep the engine running so I could steer as soon as brake was released and wheels could turn again.

I had several hairy moments such as indicating left to turn into junction, touch brakes, engine stopped and then slide straight across the junction entrance. Fortunately waiting car realised what was happening and did not pull out in front of me. And before anyone comments i was crawling along and thought I was travelling at a safe speed I could control the car and stop from.

2 minutes ago, kenfowler3966 said:

Some cars do different things on snow.

I had an audi coupe with 2wd and the 5 cylinder engine.

No abs or anything back then. On slipperry surfaces such as snow or ice the engine had a habit of stopping when applying the brake. eg touch brake, front wheels lock up instantly, engine stops. Foot off brake and car continues to slide on locked up wheels as still in gear with engine stopped with no steering possible.

I had to learn to depress the clutch immediately on starting to brake in those conditions to keep the engine running so I could steer as soon as brake was released and wheels could turn again.

I had several hairy moments such as indicating left to turn into junction, touch brakes, engine stopped and then slide straight across the junction entrance. Fortunately waiting car realised what was happening and did not pull out in front of me. And before anyone comments i was crawling along and thought I was travelling at a safe speed I could control the car and stop from.

That reminds me of an old Citroen I had, the one which rose up on hydraulics when you start the engine.

Back then I used to phone up the previous owner of a used car to ask about it and he said, "I just couldn't get used to the brakes". 

I ignored that and wished I hadn't.

 

As for tyres, it is a very difficult decision.

Yes, special tyres may only be needed only now and again but isn't it for those occasions we buy a 4WD, to keep going when others can't?

I went to a country fair last year and, unforeseen, they were marshalling 2WD cars into one car park and 4WD cars into another, up a muddy/grassy slope into a field.

They didn't check the tyres.

Could everyone please stop going on about how brilliant their Yetis are in the snow!

 

For (supposedly) practical family reasons, my Yeti with its lovely Crossclimates is parked about 30 miles from me, leaving me with a choice of the Citigo on fairly grip-free Falkens or the MX-5 on similarly low-grip summer rubber.

 

I did manage to get the Citigo moving yesterday and I think I was one of the very few cars that wasn't a 4x4.

 

Regards the other comments about 4x4s, from most of the drivers I've seen around here, they're simply a way of having a faster accident than they would do in a 2WD

37 minutes ago, Gyp said:

...Regards the other comments about 4x4s, from most of the drivers I've seen around here, they're simply a way of having a faster accident than they would do in a 2WD

Beautifully put  !

43 minutes ago, Gyp said:

Regards the other comments about 4x4s, from most of the drivers I've seen around here, they're simply a way of having a faster accident than they would do in a 2WD

 

So true of lots of them, but at least the farmers around here in their LR 90's know what they are doing.

 

Now to Ashaz.

That BBC advice is not talking about the same thing.
We were talking about how to get traction with the Yeti 4x4 system, typically from a start or at low speed. For that the advice is to INCREASE revs so that the Haldex works. It doesn't have to mean flooring the throttle, even a small increase in revs keeps it going.

 

When moving if you find you are skidding then a lot depends on your skill and which axle is doing the skidding but generally the BBC comments are the same as I would advise to the inexperienced. And they would probably be exactly what I would do as well!
And dont forget that if you have to drive in conditions such as we are getting at the moment then image there are eggs on the pedals and you are NOT going to break them. Gentle in, gentle out, slow and sure. (Oh matron!!)

To tyres: the Yeti comes equipped with normal road tyres, just like 75% of all the other cars on the road. Therefore without the 4x4 system they are no better or worse on a grassy or muddy field than everyone else. Where we "profit" is we have the Haldex and it will (should) get you out of some troubles, but as has been explained you have to know how to use it to your advantage.
In your Show situation, thankfully most people don't know the Yeti is a 4x4 so will send you to the 2WD section, and it isn't your job to correct them is it?
As others here will confirm I drive off-road lots, as a rally marshall, radio operator and in my work with NRW. My Yeti has the bog standard tyres fitted and I have never had a problem, but then I do know what I am doing and I don't tke risks. If it looks wrong it probably is, so I get out and walk it and check it first. When I taught and assessed off-road drivers there was a simple saying; "If in doubt DON'T!!"
I do not have winter or all season tyres fitted to my car, and it is currently parked under a foot of snow and there it will remain until the roads are clearer. If I was still working then I would have fitted something suitable, but I'm not and I'm not needing to use the car. However I suspect that I will need to replace all 4 tyres next time, so will be looking at All Season ones, simply because I will need to repalce all 4. I would not mix the 2 types at all. And remember we are talking about WINTER tyres, not snow tyres. Too many people do not understand the difference.

If your Yeti is running the standard 17" wheels then there are NO special All Terrain or off-road tyres available, although there are some in 16". Personally I would not advise 99% of owners to fit them. Uness you are more crazy than me you will not need them, and if you did fit them they could easily result in you getting yourself into situations beyond your capabilities and those of the car.

 

If you want to drve off-road then my advice to everyone is get some professional tuition and do not venture out on your own.

Know your own capabilities.
Know the capabilities of the car.
Do NOT exceed either.

 

Here endeth the lesson.

 

9 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

 

 

And dont forget that if you have to drive in conditions such as we are getting at the moment...

 

In your Show situation, thankfully most people don't know the Yeti is a 4x4 so will send you to the 2WD section, and it isn't your job to correct them is it?

And remember we are talking about WINTER tyres, not snow tyres. Too many people do not understand the difference.

 

 Uness you are more crazy than me you will not need them, and if you did fit them they could easily result in you getting yourself into situations beyond your capabilities and those of the car.

 

 

9 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

Thanks for all that.

 

As it happens where I am in NE England I've barely seen a snowflake since Wednesday evening, I'm pleased to say.

 

Re. the show they just did it by looks, I never said a word, though if they had asked I would have volunteered 4WD out of ignorance.

 

Nope, no idea between winter and snow tyres except for winter rubber being better for cold temperatures.

 

As for beyond the capabilities of the car/driver, yes, "all the gear, no idea".

I really do try to avoid that
 

 

Mine has been faultless in the testing conditions we’ve had up here over the last few days. I had to take the road less travelled home from Cumbernauld to avoid getting stuck on the M80 on Wednesday and there were no dramas. 

23 hours ago, Expatman said:

I think narrowest approved tyre for Yeti is 205.

 

I think that's right.  I run 205/55R16s so that I can fit chains to the front wheels should the need arise.  TBH, I did wonder whether some of the deep snow this week might necessitate the metalwork being deployed, but as I said previously, the traction I got from the Vector 4Seasons was a revelation.

 

Someone else mentioned turning off traction control.  I can see no reason to do that if the issue is a shortage of traction in the first place!

Edited 3 March, 20188 yr by ejstubbs

12 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

I think that's right.  I run 205/55R16s so that I can fit chains to the front wheels should the need arise.  TBH, I did wonder whether some of the deep snow this week might necessitate the metalwork being deployed, but as I said previously, the traction I got from the Vector 4Seasons was a revelation.

 

Someone else mentioned turning off traction control.  I can see no reason to do that if the issue is a shortage of traction in the first place!

Did you notice much fall-off in performance for normal road driving with the Vectors compared to the standard tyres (P7s??)?

ejstubbs,  Do not switch off TC then if you find you do not need to.

The owners manual tells you when it is a good time to.

 

Like when you fit those snow chains on that some do need to fit.

Or getting unstuck. Rocking out of snow.

Plenty find the issue with TC is that it does not improve traction, you get moving you have forward motion and then a wheel / tyre slips it nips the brake and puts you off track.

But then you only know if you try, and with the right tyres you might never need to put off the TC, or fit Snow chains.

Edited 3 March, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

1 hour ago, Llanigraham said:

....Gentle in, gentle out, slow and sure. (Oh matron!!)....

Here endeth the lesson.
 

Bob would be proud of you.  Off to the Corner  !

1 hour ago, Ashaz said:

Did you notice much fall-off in performance for normal road driving with the Vectors compared to the standard tyres (P7s??)?

 

IMO you should only need to explore the edge of the performance envelope for normal road driving in a sh!t-hitting-the-fan situation, and I do my best to drive so as to avoid such eventualities.  I seriously doubt that I'd have been able to find the cornering limit of any of the tyres I've on the car safely, on a public road in the dry.  Braking performance is more important IMO, especially on damp roads, and both my Nokian winter tyres the current Goodyears have been better in that respect than the OEM Dunlop SP01s ever were.

 

In fact I think the SP01s must be the least impressive "premium" brand tyres I've ever had.  I alternated them with my Nokian winter tyres for six years, at which point the Dunlops were down to the wear bars but the Nokians still had a fair bit of tread left.  So I left the Nokians on all year, until they were down to the limit for winter use, and then had the Goodyears fitted.  The Nokians performed perfectly well over the summer: if anything, a bit more predictable in the dry, and with more 'feel' for what they were doing then the SP01s - and noticeably better in the wet, which is what I expected.

 

I only fitted the Goodyears in December; so far this winter they have been just fine.

8 hours ago, Ashaz said:

Just seen this on the BEEB this morning.

 

"As soon as you feel the car start to slid back off the throttle, take your foot completely off it".

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/newsbeat-43263026/uk-weather-how-to-drive-in-snow-and-ice

 

Or is it different for a 4WD?

 

The worst one size fits all advice I have seen.....

 

Old laggy Haldex, drive the car in a lower gear 3500rpm min if petrol..& use more throttle it get the haldex to shift power to rear....new haldex, just use more throttle & again preferably in lower gear...

 

2wd on summers, yes come off, & cover the brakes...but it all depends on the situation..

 

2wd on winters, change down & apply throttle & opposite lock & drift the car sideways around the corner....like I used to do in the Fabia....snow what snow??...Scandianvian flick anyone???

3 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

IMO you should only need to explore the edge of the performance envelope for normal road driving in a sh!t-hitting-the-fan situation, and I do my best to drive so as to avoid such eventualities.  I seriously doubt that I'd have been able to find the cornering limit of any of the tyres I've on the car safely, on a public road in the dry.  Braking performance is more important IMO, especially on damp roads, and both my Nokian winter tyres the current Goodyears have been better in that respect than the OEM Dunlop SP01s ever were.

 

In fact I think the SP01s must be the least impressive "premium" brand tyres I've ever had.  I alternated them with my Nokian winter tyres for six years, at which point the Dunlops were down to the wear bars but the Nokians still had a fair bit of tread left.  So I left the Nokians on all year, until they were down to the limit for winter use, and then had the Goodyears fitted.  The Nokians performed perfectly well over the summer: if anything, a bit more predictable in the dry, and with more 'feel' for what they were doing then the SP01s - and noticeably better in the wet, which is what I expected.

 

I only fitted the Goodyears in December; so far this winter they have been just fine.

Thanks, good to know.

Thanks to fabdavrav as well.

Edited 3 March, 20188 yr by Ashaz

4 hours ago, SuperbTWM said:

 

 

With the amount of snow we get I have never seen the need in winter tyres, I've never been stuck or struggled to get to work although they would of made life a bit easier. It all depends on if you can be bothered to store a set of wheels/tyres that you might only need for a week every 5 years.

 

On the other hand if you live somewhere which gets regular snow its a no brainer not to have winter tyres and they will be worth every penny

I’ve had my winter tyres for about 5 years and this snowy spell is the only time they have come into their own in snow despite living in North of England. However they are on the car all winter when for much of the time the ambient temperatures are such that they perform better within their optimum temperature range which summer tyres might not. They are not on the car just for snow.  I also like my tatty steel 16 inch wheels and I’m not bothered much if they rust a little due to salt and perhaps get kerbed if I slide. They are also much more comfortable than 17 inch wheels when running over potholes that have sprung up with this frosty and wet weather. I am content to see my alloys on their storage stand avoiding the pitfalls of winter motoring. Running costs are free once the initial purchase shock is absorbed. I used to change mine myself over  spring/autumn but a friendly next door neighbour workshop now does that for me free of charge (looking after elderly neighbours he says). 

 

I would like to get some Michelin all weathers (Read super reports for both summer and winter) and might do so this autumn but there are certain advantages in having tatty steel wheels shod with winter tyres in winter.

Someone mentioned the 'cheapo' Nankangs earlier. I had these on a previous TIBET (CR170 4WD) and they were fine. I only changed to Nokians as vanity took hold and I hated running 16" steels with wheel trims so bought a set of Matterhorn alloys for the winter use. Remember, it isn't only snow that the winters are great in - there ability to grip on cold roads and cut through standing water is brilliant.   

 

Edit: I meant to mention that the reason I went for the Nankangs originally was that one online reviewer said he had the world's singularly most useless vehicle for driving in the snow - a BMW 3-series auto and they made it behave like it was on dry roads which was good enough for me!

Edited 3 March, 20188 yr by aerofurb

2 hours ago, Brijo said:

Bob would be proud of you.  Off to the Corner  !

 

He's bought another Yeti and is now on the other Yeti forum.

Re chains.

 

There is no need to change the wider / taller front tyres / wheels in order to fit snow chains - just put them on the rear ! (if you have 4x4 that is of course) See the following video

 

At about 35 seconds you'll see that they've fitted chains to the rear. This by the way is in line with Skoda recommendations (in NZ at least)

 

And before anybody asks, no sorry I don't know what tyres were being used.

Page 212.

A-SUV_Yeti_OwnersManual.pdf

41 minutes ago, Upsidedown said:

Re chains.

 

There is no need to change the wider / taller front tyres / wheels in order to fit snow chains - just put them on the rear ! (if you have 4x4 that is of course) See the following video

 

At about 35 seconds you'll see that they've fitted chains to the rear. This by the way is in line with Skoda recommendations (in NZ at least)

 

And before anybody asks, no sorry I don't know what tyres were being used.

 

The reason they do that is to force the fronts to slip forcing the haldex to shift power to the rear making the car use the AWD system...other wise if the fronts get grip with chains then the haldex may not operate...as the haldex usually only shifts power to the rears if the fronts lose grip...

3 hours ago, Llanigraham said:

 

He's bought another Yeti and is now on the other Yeti forum.

 

Very good to hear that he's OK  .  i wonder if he knows that some of us have kept the old Corner going, just in case of his return.  If he's setting up another one now, in 'Another Place', perhaps we should just quietly close ours ?  It seems a bit pointless. 

We aalready had the corner ready for him!

15 hours ago, fabdavrav said:

 

The reason they do that is to force the fronts to slip forcing the haldex to shift power to the rear making the car use the AWD system...other wise if the fronts get grip with chains then the haldex may not operate...as the haldex usually only shifts power to the rears if the fronts lose grip...

 

If the fronts grip with chains, why would you need power to the rear wheels?  Call me fussy, but I'd rather have reliable directional control and the most effective braking possible in the conditions as well as traction...

 

The Yeti owners manual quite clearly states that chains can be fitted to either front or rear wheels, or both, on vehicles with 4WD.

 

The 205/55R16 is also a slightly narrower tyre, which as is mentioned elsewhere can be better for penetrating into the snow pack.  The tyres are also cheaper.  And, as I noted above, they have no discernible performance penalties in normal driving conditions.

3 minutes ago, ejstubbs said:

 

If the fronts grip with chains, why would you need power to the rear wheels?  Call me fussy, but I'd rather have reliable directional control and the most effective braking possible in the conditions as well as traction...

 

 

You didn't understand what I wrote...

 

If you fit chains to the front on a haldex AWD systems the front will get the power & the haldex may not shift any to the rear as Haldex is front wheel drive unless the fronts lose traction or the rear steps out if turning a corner at speed (basic explanation)..

 

So by fitting chains to the front you force it to be 2WD...& therefore not using the AWD capabilities of the system of the car...this has a knock on effect for all the ESP/ASR/ etc systems which are geared for AWD situations..& you will NOT get the most out of the systems as you have a huge grip imbalance...of the wheels presented to the road

 

So if AWD either do not use chains & therefore all tyres present the same grip level to the road or fit the chains to the rear to force the haldex.....this is why in the Skoda manual they state you can fit the chains to the rear on AWD & why in that video they do fit the chains to the rear of a AWD....

 

You need to understand the electronics & haldex system to get most from it otherwise you might as well have a basic 2wd citigo...

& then there is the Max Speed as indicated, and if you are on the road where you 'must fit snow chains'  because the Signs say you must you will be wanting ful control, not just playing about off road on snow.

 

If you just want traction and forward or reversing action then Snow Socks on the front will do nicely, and if they slip on the rear as well.

Or on the front and if they slip the haldex will do its thing and you will get the rear wheel drive and traction if there is there.

 

No TPMS then giving warnings, and also you can move a bit quicker if the roads are white then you might do with 4 chains on the car.