Hi all

 

I am about to swap back from Winter tyres to Summer and I have a feeling that two of the Summers will have gone because when I de-stoned them before storage I noticed two really deep stones.  i.e. if you feel inside you can feel the mesh of the tyre.  So this I think will give me the nudge to get rid of the Pirelli's P7s (18s) it came with that I have never been impressed with.

 

In the past I have been a Michellin fan but that was on cars with lower power abilities and I know tyres react differently on different cars etc.  So looking for thoughts, opinions, advice from you guys.

 

Not looking for anything sporty really.  80% of the time it is A & B roads in Lincolnshire with the rest being motorway.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

Edited 9 March, 20188 yr by pentaxian
Added in Wheel Size - 18inch.

There is a current tyre test on AutoExpress.co.uk.

Michelin are one of the world's best sports tyre manufactures, and for F1, rallies, bikes. buses, lorries, etc etc

 

They also do very good 4x4 tyres and own brands such a BF Goodrich etc

 

You won't go wrong with any Michelin tyre

+1 for Michelin

https://www.briskoda.net/forums/topic/440058-p7s-in-the-wet/?do=findComment&comment=4947598

 

Michelin Crossclimate + then you don't need to swap to winter tyres...

 

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/accessories-tyres/92866/michelin-crossclimate-tyre-review

I put some CC+ tyres on my other car earlier this year and I have been very impressed with them, especially in the snow.  They also behave well when driven with a 'bit of purpose' in the dry as well.

 

 

I got these on my Supreb (from factory): Hankook Ventus Prime 2 K115235/45 R18 94W
They are rated at 67db C fuel economy and A wet conditions. I love them.

I'd never ever ever get all session tires. They have trade offs in both winter and summer. They're not perfect for any season. Just OK. Tyre's are the most important part of the car (besides brakes =)). 

12 minutes ago, JackySi said:

I got these on my Supreb (from factory): Hankook Ventus Prime 2 K115235/45 R18 94W
They are rated at 67db C fuel economy and A wet conditions. I love them.

I'd never ever ever get all session tires. They have trade offs in both winter and summer. They're not perfect for any season. Just OK. Tyre's are the most important part of the car (besides brakes =)). 

 

I agree, but you never drive either full performance or on snow, and most need just one tyre all year.

 

Tyres are one of the most important factors that it why I only buy the best of breed and either Michelin or Goodyear all season tyres are both best of breed depending on your personal choice.

 

Hankook are very good tyres as well but my preference is all season especially as I drive along wet and greasy lanes a lot and on dirt tracks.  For city, urban, or wamer climate use I agree a lot of summer tyres are excellent.  Just not all year round especially when below 7 degrees. 

 

I have Michelin Premacy on one of my cars and they are a very good tyre but you do notice a grip difference in winter even in the south of England.

 

Users are choosers and each to their own, I prefer all year security to outright performance tyres that are rarely tested

 

1 hour ago, R1100 said:

 

I agree, but you never drive either full performance or on snow, and most need just one tyre all year.

 

Tyres are one of the most important factors that it why I only buy the best of breed and either Michelin or Goodyear all season tyres are both best of breed depending on your personal choice.

 

Hankook are very good tyres as well but my preference is all season especially as I drive along wet and greasy lanes a lot and on dirt tracks.  For city, urban, or wamer climate use I agree a lot of summer tyres are excellent.  Just not all year round especially when below 7 degrees. 

 

I have Michelin Premacy on one of my cars and they are a very good tyre but you do notice a grip difference in winter even in the south of England.

 

Users are choosers and each to their own, I prefer all year security to outright performance tyres that are rarely tested

 

I never look at "general" tyre use. In that case most ppl would be good with chinese crappy tires for 40 bucks a tyre. What will you do when you need to stop from 110km/h to 0 in 60 meters because of some sort of emergency on high way? Or even kill some one just because u didn't wana buy two sets of tyres? I think people should be educated how much a tyre means. Not just quality / brand (as you pointed out you are aware of grip in with different temperatures)

Biggest issue with summer/winter and all season tyres is that winter is soft in summer, summer tyre is hard in winter. both are tradeoffs. All season is "in between" so its never best. Its always middle. So you lose few precious stopping metres before a crash, driving over some person, dog, deer. You get the point =).

I just consider the big picture always. I don't care much about money, specially when it  comes to cars... Most dangers thing in our lifes today isn't running out of water or food, but diing in damn car crash because some one else felt cheap and bought crap tyres (I'm not talking about allseason now =)). A good car is useless without good tyres. 

P.S.: I switch tyres every 2 years and I always get winter/summer. It costs me a lot. But difference in grip is huge. Even 3 years old tyre feels much slipper than 1 year old. Now don't get me started when it comes to winter/summer ^^. I drive A LOT. And I also test grip often to see how good car handles (depending on weather, tyres and so on). 

Edited 10 March, 20188 yr by JackySi

2 hours ago, JackySi said:

I'd never ever ever get all session tires. They have trade offs in both winter and summer. They're not perfect for any season. Just OK. Tyre's are the most important part of the car (besides brakes =)). 

So when do you change winter to summer and back?  

 

There will be periods where a few days favour winter tyres and then a few days that favour summer tyres, unless of course you change over on a daily basis you will be compromising some grip.  

 

I have used full on winters and changed over in spring and late autumn, you think the snow has also gone as there has been a few lovely warm spring days and then the snow comes in again so unless you have many sets and the time and resource to change as conditions dictate so all tyres have trade off, even down to the daily temp and load you carry hence the pressures you set.  

 

In most of the UK most of the time we do not have extremes and the best tyre are those that suit most of those conditions.  Given that Mich CC+ has rated so well in many UK and other tests for; wet, dry and cold weather performance I know which tyres I will be fitting next.  Yes they may be a compromise but they are still better than the lifeless strips of leather that purports to be a premium tyre but is really very poor.

The CC+ is an excellent summer tyre and very competent (3PMSF rated) winter tyre. There are tyres that perform better in deep snow, but unless you are ready to change your tyres daily at certain times of the year you will not find a safer tyre for the UK climate IMHO. It’s nowhere near a middling performing tyre… in any weather

Keep in mind the following test puts it up against ultra high performance summer tyres:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2018-AZ-Summer-AND-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm

This test puts the older 1st gen CC up against the top winter tyre and other "all season" models:

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2017-All-Season-VS-Winter-Tyre-Test.htm

Take note of the baseline in the result graphs and what that actually works out as a percentage.

Back to @pentaxian question (already has winters). I think the Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymmetric 2 are good value at the moment. Comparable to the Asymmetric 3, but a fair bit cheaper... nice and quiet too:

 

 

3 hours ago, Bud said:

So when do you change winter to summer and back?  

 

There will be periods where a few days favour winter tyres and then a few days that favour summer tyres, unless of course you change over on a daily basis you will be compromising some grip.  

 

I have used full on winters and changed over in spring and late autumn, you think the snow has also gone as there has been a few lovely warm spring days and then the snow comes in again so unless you have many sets and the time and resource to change as conditions dictate so all tyres have trade off, even down to the daily temp and load you carry hence the pressures you set.  

 

In most of the UK most of the time we do not have extremes and the best tyre are those that suit most of those conditions.  Given that Mich CC+ has rated so well in many UK and other tests for; wet, dry and cold weather performance I know which tyres I will be fitting next.  Yes they may be a compromise but they are still better than the lifeless strips of leather that purports to be a premium tyre but is really very poor.

Last year (so this season) I changed my  tyre's on 10th October 2 days after  temperatures at night dropped bellow 10°C. We had up to -23°C this year but soon we're getting 10+ at night so I'll change back to summer tyres. The weather is pretty much jumping just few days then its steadily above 10 or bellow 10. I don't live in UK so I don't know what weather conditions you have there (other than a lot of rain). I change tyre's based on temperature mostly, because i feel biggest difference in GRIP by temperatures and biggest notice is when there is rain. With Summer tyres and bellow 10 tyre is like rock, it doesn't grip at all. 

About All season tyre's I wouldn't believe what I read. Put them on your car and then try some quality summer/winter trye and u will feel the difference. Specially if you go on some sort of real testing road ( we have specially designed track for testing car's grip around where I live and I did few tests with various temperatures and conditions ). However again temperatures matter, here we have up to 40°C (tops) in Summer and up to -23°C in winter this year. So if weather in UK is always around 10 all season might be good to have something in between (compromise between best). But its a compromise and can never be as good as dedicated tyre to either summer or winter. Otherwise what would be the point of having those.

P.S.: Interesting enough, there is no temperature ratings at which they tested tyres. Funny ;=) since that's most important factor.

Edited 11 March, 20188 yr by JackySi

I borrowed a friends 320i (non xdrive) about a month ago for a few days which had CC+ fitted. It felt extremely planted and drivable. I remember being a little cautious initially with the frost, so temps were low. I previously had an A6 C7 with Primacy 3s that became noticeably poorer in cold weather so I swapped to Nokian WR A3 during the winters and really liked them.

 

Anyway, even though the beemer has very different driving characteristics it felt just as planted and had plenty of grip compared to my A6 Quattro with full blown Nokian winters fitted. The CC+ appear to (at least) match the Primacy 3 in warm weather testing. I didn’t get to try the 3 series in the recent snow, but the owner tells me he was able to make steady progress where many other (abandoned) rear drive mercs/beemers hadn’t. You seem to be going against the general consensus so I take it you have actually tried the Cross Climates?

 

I appreciate that if someone has Pilot Sport 4s for the summer and Conti TS 860s during the winter you will benefit from that extra percentage of performance, but I would suggest the CC+ are as good as your Ventus Prime 2 K115s in the summer and dramatically better than my current P7s.

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Hankook/Ventus-Prime2.htm

 

What winter tyres do you use @JackySi?

 

12 hours ago, Alan_P said:

I borrowed a friends 320i (non xdrive) about a month ago for a few days which had CC+ fitted. It felt extremely planted and drivable. I remember being a little cautious initially with the frost, so temps were low. I previously had an A6 C7 with Primacy 3s that became noticeably poorer in cold weather so I swapped to Nokian WR A3 during the winters and really liked them.

 

Anyway, even though the beemer has very different driving characteristics it felt just as planted and had plenty of grip compared to my A6 Quattro with full blown Nokian winters fitted. The CC+ appear to (at least) match the Primacy 3 in warm weather testing. I didn’t get to try the 3 series in the recent snow, but the owner tells me he was able to make steady progress where many other (abandoned) rear drive mercs/beemers hadn’t. You seem to be going against the general consensus so I take it you have actually tried the Cross Climates?

 

I appreciate that if someone has Pilot Sport 4s for the summer and Conti TS 860s during the winter you will benefit from that extra percentage of performance, but I would suggest the CC+ are as good as your Ventus Prime 2 K115s in the summer and dramatically better than my current P7s.

 

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Hankook/Ventus-Prime2.htm

 

What winter tyres do you use @JackySi?

 

I had CC's on my previous ride A6 Quattro. Tried new CC+'s on polygon with VW Passat 2018 4motion. For winters I went with BF Goodrich 235/45/R18 98V these handled crazy good (at tires even the speed/weight rating can change the way tyre handle/sounds, I felt difference between Hankook's 94 and 98 considerably, most in noise however handling was almost the same). 

Don't forget Tyre tests are always done by "professionals" which out of XX tests do only 2 technically. All other tests are based on actual human driving and rating the tyre. I understand you are confident these are awesome tyres. I never said they are not (for the purpose they're built, its amazing  they were able to engineer that). Its just never going to be the same. In extremes either HOT/ super cold weather they will be worse. Physically its impossible they are not. Any sort of rubber acts differently on extreme high temperatures or extreme cold.

That’s what I was getting at, we have individual opinions… I was trying to go by the weight of evidence and reviews. I also don’t think tyre development ever stops and Michelin have generally been ahead of the curve with their proprietary technologies and massive R&D budget. Remember silica-silane bonding which is now the industry standard?

The CCs are probably more of a UK thing though with us not having extremes of hot or cold. I hope we don’t lose the Gulf Stream after Brexit