A pair of new discs really are that cheap it might be worth getting a set IMO.

1 hour ago, Wino said:

@DaveSk I think if you have a look, you'll see that the surfaces I'm referring to aren't part of the caliper.

 

Item 7 here, the horizontal surfaces on the left of the bearing housing in the diagram.

Ok thanks.  

Good morning.  I got to the car this morning and tried the brake pedal before turning on the engine and the pedal was hard at the top. Does this suggest a vacuum leak? Should the vacuum be maintained for 36 hours? After turning on the engine I slowly found the bite and the car moved freely without any initial brake bite and coasted well during the journey. After dropping my son off I got back to the car after 10 mins and the vacuum had been maintained and the pedal rose after each pump (3 times) with the engine off. I then maintained pressure on the pedal as I turned it on and the pedal dropped an inch or two.  I then tried pumping the pedal whilst lightly revving the engine and I initially got a varied response from the brake pedal, varying in hardness but since repeating this I've had a consistent response, but whilst driving and applying the brake whilst accelerating there is a slow response to the brakes releasing with a drag for a few seconds before the car restarts gaining speed.  If I apply the brakes whilst coasting on a flat road there is no wobble in the steering wheel or turning to the left or right.  I've let the car idle for 20 minutes and then tried the brake pedal and it's got a similar amount of play in it to before but initially the brakes feel a bit sharper when applied and then relax a bit.  There's no obvious noise from the brakes when coasting slowly and no particular vibrations in the brake pedal when it's applied. In the past I have heard a rhythmic clicking noise from the driver's side after a period of driving and the disc is hot. 

After an hour and half of faffing with it on the local streets the discs are both cool to touch.  There's nothing like an inconsistent problem to really f # * k you off!!  

On 3/18/2018 at 10:34, Wino said:

Checking the servo vac hose is a good idea in general, as they are a bit prone to failure, but I'm not convinced it's causing this problem.

Wish I had more ideas about what is.

 

 

Hi.  I checked the hose this morning.  No issues along it's length and no obvious signs of leaks when sprayed with brake cleaner around the joints whilst the engine was running.  Disconnected it and the check valve seemed to have a consistent and correct response when I sucked/blowed it.  I apologise for all of the innuendos.

 

Would it be reasonable to see if the binding occurs when driving without the servo pipe connected?  

How about removing ABS fuses?

I'll hopefully get a chance to work on the pad tabs and slides tomorrow seeing as the snow should've gone by then.

 

Thanks

4 minutes ago, DaveSk said:

Would it be reasonable to see if the binding occurs when driving without the servo pipe connected?  

How about removing ABS fuses?

Both good ideas, give yourself plenty of room in front for the former, until you get used to the level of leg force required.

Edit: you should block off the pipe stub at the manifold end, I guess, if servo pipe is taken off; to avoid the airleak that would otherwise be caused.

Edited 19 March, 20188 yr by Wino

Many years ago i learned that putting a finger on a disc to see if hot was a mistake and spitting on them a bit Kerb Side Autos.

A Cooks thermometer as for checking meat is so handy (edit), as is cheap digital fridge thermometers, checking brakes, tyre temps, 

and Cold Air intakes etc to see if you get them right for cold air being getting in.

Edited 3 April, 20188 yr by AwaoffSki

Thanks for your replies.  

 

Driving minus the servo (pipe blocked) didn't seem to stop the issue but I could only test it as much as after an 8 mile drive, without using the brake for the last 7 miles, the o/s disc was too hot to touch whilst the n/s was warm.  Without servo assist I was unable to test the symptom of the pedal going stiff.  I then did 12 miles with the same outcome.  The only thing I could say is that it was picking up speed when coasting down hills.  I felt the suction on the vacuum hose and it felt strong.  

Would this definitely rule out the servo?

Ironically I nearly got rear ended during the drive when I stopped for someone at a zebra crossing.  

 

I understand that there can be a difference in temperature between the discs and that the discs can operate up to a very high temperature that would be difficult to estimate by touch, with a large end of their operating temperature only feeling too bloody hot to touch without an instant burn; but in my case it does feel like the difference is extreme and that the temperature of the o/s disc shouldn't be scolding me after 7 miles of driving in the cold without using the brake.  

 

Generally when I park up and set off there is some free roll in the car, but at times it does slow when coasting on hills.  I've also noticed a rhythmic high pitched squeak coming from the o/s at slow speeds..... pad catching or sign of a warped disc?

 

I was complaining about the 280 miles per tank that i've been getting, but I did find a thread where this exact figure was quoted by two other owners of the same car, so it seems that I might not be losing as much economy as i thought.  My '04, 1.4 petrol 206 did 400 per tank, as does my wife's C3.  Prior to buying this I read that the economy of mine was pretty much the same as the 206 but the tank was slightly smaller so I was expecting at least 350 per tank.  I generally do 20 mile stints on the motorway, avoiding rush hour traffic.  

 

I've also tried lifting the brake pedal up after braking but no movement or improvement there.  Haven't had a chance to take out the ABS fuse or get the wheel off yet.

 

So I'm still at the point of.... tab ends? sliders? disc? bearing? cylinder? servo? ABS?££?

 

Cheers for reading and your replies.  

Dave

 

 

 

 

Edited 21 March, 20188 yr by DaveSk

 

This reminds me so much of my wife’s Nissan.

 

When first getting in the car it free wheeled fine, but after a few miles there was a squeal from the front passenger disc in particular and it was getting mad hot, in fact the whole wheel on that side was far to hot to touch even without any “real” braking effort used. When left to stand for around half an hour is so the disk etc must have contracted and it was easy to turn again when jacked up!

Given what you have changed, discs, slider pins etc already, I would be removing those new calipers and ensuring that the tabs on the pads are free to slide fairly easily in the calipers. I had to file the tabs to remove the paint and the surface rust on the on the groove that the stainless inserts  (in her case) fit into as the pads simply did not retract at all when the brake pedal was released. The resulting friction must have expanded the pad and disk as you drove causing the excess heat and squealing.

A very light coat of grease to the tabs and carrier inserts and all has been well for the last 14 months or so. 

At least you will have eliminated one possibility. Good luck!

19 hours ago, Wonky said:

 

This reminds me so much of my wife’s Nissan.

 

When first getting in the car it free wheeled fine, but after a few miles there was a squeal from the front passenger disc in particular and it was getting mad hot, in fact the whole wheel on that side was far to hot to touch even without any “real” braking effort used. When left to stand for around half an hour is so the disk etc must have contracted and it was easy to turn again when jacked up!

Given what you have changed, discs, slider pins etc already, I would be removing those new calipers and ensuring that the tabs on the pads are free to slide fairly easily in the calipers. I had to file the tabs to remove the paint and the surface rust on the on the groove that the stainless inserts  (in her case) fit into as the pads simply did not retract at all when the brake pedal was released. The resulting friction must have expanded the pad and disk as you drove causing the excess heat and squealing.

A very light coat of grease to the tabs and carrier inserts and all has been well for the last 14 months or so. 

At least you will have eliminated one possibility. Good luck!

Cheers mate.  I'll definitely be trying that now that weather has sorted itself (for now).  From searching beyond Skoda and VAG brake issues it seems that this is a worldwide issue!  

Forget the servo for the moment  - if it was playing up all brakes would be affected.

 

If you have a deficiency in one of the calipers (Particularly on the front,)  I would expect noticeable brake pull to one side, you have not mentioned any brake pull as far as I can see (I may have missed this?).

 

Would favour the idea of ensuring that the pads are free as suggested by others. Take note that it only takes a minimal amount of binding to generate a considerable increase in heat.

Frankly you are spending an enormous amount of time (and possibly expense ) by guessing and chunk changing.

A proper mechanic should have no problem in identifying and correcting the cause. From your post, I am concerned about the reported variable travel of the brake pedal - are you sure that the system was correctly bled out when the hoses and calipers were changed?

 

I am not sure if the brake pedal actuating rod / master cylinder clearance is fixed on modern cars? Whatever, I would make sure that the brake pedal fully returns to its at rest position when released, thus allowing the master cylinder piston to return to the proper position within the cylinder.

Have you checked that the o/s/f wheel bearing is not allowing tip? Jack it up - grab the wheel top and bottom to make sure all is well.

 

I am horrified to learn of driving the car with the vacuum pipe effectively non operative, and would recommend every one not to do this in any circumstance.

Edited 23 March, 20188 yr by 2ndskoda

My Fab with drums always ‘clunks’ if its been left with the handbrake on.. worse when its rained. 

 

Sometimes they stick so bad its difficult to set off. 

 

I now leave the handbrake off and the car in gear when its on my (level, obviously )  driveway. 

 

Could this not be the clunk you hear? 

 

When the drums are taken off and cleaned at service time they are okay for a few weeks but it doesnt take long to start doing it again. 

 

Tbh, the handbrakes always been abit crap. It struggles to hold the car on a steep hill unless you really wrench it up. 

You can continue to be plagued by this problem, or get it fixed. It very much sounds like a sticky piston.

 

The only real way to investigate is a full brake stripdown. With the caliper removed, the brake pedal can be pressed a few times to extend the piston from the caliper. Just enough to see condition. If the dust sleeve is torn or damaged allowing the piston to be corroded, then you can replace the entire caliper on exchange basis, or get your mechanic to rebuild.

 

I doubt he'll do the latter. If it was me I'd rebuild with Bigg Red brake rebuild kid, and use a little Lockheed red grease when inserting piston. Brake sliders to be inspected and greased with lithium grease. Fit new pads and discs (Brembo or Pagid).

 

If it's got rear drum brakes, try leaving car in gear and avoid handbrake (on the flat only), especially at this time of year. They will continually bind given moisture and salt laden roads. 

 

 

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread after the original post.

 

If I can just tell you my experience from my Mk1 Fabia. I had what appears to be exactly the same problem. I would set off on a run and within a short time the brakes began to bind on. I found that if I pumped the pedal that would release them but soon they would start to bind again and I would have to pump some more.

 

I took the car to my local Skoda 'Specialist' a good guy who I had used many times. He immediately suspected sticking calipers and stripped and greased them.

The problem immediately reappeared so he had it back in the workshop, checked the servo and hoses etc and concluded the problem was with the master cyl, so I asked him to change that.

 

Now with the new master Cyl and nice free calipers the problem got even worse. I was driving up the main A road and could feel the brakes starting to bind. I stopped at traffic lights and clouds of smelly blue smoke was appearing from under the bonnet, ( it was obviously smoke from the brakes)  I actually thought we were on fire. Frightening!!!!

 

My specialist now rang Skoda as he was at a loss. Having run the problem through them he was told to change the Servo. By this time I was saying hold on, this is costing me a fortune. He offered to wave the labour charges on fitting the Master Cyl and the Servo so I agreed.

That solved the problem, no more binding and super smooth brakes after that.

 

So even though it didn't appear to be the Servo, that was indeed the culprit in my case.

 

Harry

Edited 1 April, 20188 yr by horkin

1 hour ago, spartacus68 said:

If it's got rear drum brakes, try leaving car in gear and avoid handbrake (on the flat only), especially at this time of year. They will continually bind given moisture and salt laden roads. 

 

 

About 6 weeks ago, agreed a deal to p/ex my 6 year old Fabia.

For various reasons ( limp mode anyone ? ) only used it 3 times in next month.

Came the time to take it to the dealers it WOULD NOT BUDGE!

Rang dealer to say I'd be a bit late & he said not to worry, but try tapping the tyre with a light hammer.

Somewhat less than light 'tap' with a sledge hammer fettled it !

2 hours ago, punyXpress said:

About 6 weeks ago, agreed a deal to p/ex my 6 year old Fabia.

For various reasons ( limp mode anyone ? ) only used it 3 times in next month.

Came the time to take it to the dealers it WOULD NOT BUDGE!

Rang dealer to say I'd be a bit late & he said not to worry, but try tapping the tyre with a light hammer.

Somewhat less than light 'tap' with a sledge hammer fettled it !

 

I think, that if you have alloy wheels with reasonable space between the spokes, the plan is to get a suitable piece of wood that allows you to rest it on the drums and hit it with a hammer - ie get right into the source of the issue. If you have steel wheels I'm sorry but I have not got any good answer for that other than again use wood as a "interface" and hit it with a biggish hammer.

Preparation for p/ex meant changing back to original alloys & summer tyres - just in time for all the snow!

The drums were well solid.

The 'big hammer' certainly bounced back from the tyre, but at least it worked.   

Just make sure your ankles aren't in the line of fire.

Late snow indeed, not summer yet! 

My ideal change time is more end April/start May gives me 6 months “off each”!

Hitting a rubber tyre and getting the hammer back, I can see that happening, so hitting a steel wheel or better the drum saves that problem.

@Wino @CWARD @AwaoffSki 

Slides cleaned, filed & greased.  Tabs of new pads de-burred and greased.  New discs fitted.  

So far so good.  Still wary of greater heat on the driver's side but as you've said, I've to expect a certain amount of heat and a difference between the n/s & o/s temperature is not unexpected as long as it's within reason.  No smoking or excessive binding noticed yet but I'm still nursing it to a certain extent.  

The fuel economy appears to be slightly better...  difficult to gauge with electronic gauge and the three bars from when the fuel light comes on seem to run down very quickly compared to the bars above it...    but I've not done a whole tanks worth since I did the work.

 

No gripping of front pads after it has been parked for a while but the rears do.  Started leaving it in gear rather then using the handbrake when parked and plan to have a look at servicing the drums.  It needs a service.  Looks like it missed the last one from the service history.  I hope to do most of this myself in the future but I think I'll go for an official dealer one along with a brake fluid flush just to get a clean slate.  

Thanks for the help with this.  

On 4/1/2018 at 11:08, horkin said:

Sorry I'm a bit late to this thread after the original post.

 

If I can just tell you my experience from my Mk1 Fabia. I had what appears to be exactly the same problem. I would set off on a run and within a short time the brakes began to bind on. I found that if I pumped the pedal that would release them but soon they would start to bind again and I would have to pump some more.

 

I took the car to my local Skoda 'Specialist' a good guy who I had used many times. He immediately suspected sticking calipers and stripped and greased them.

The problem immediately reappeared so he had it back in the workshop, checked the servo and hoses etc and concluded the problem was with the master cyl, so I asked him to change that.

 

Now with the new master Cyl and nice free calipers the problem got even worse. I was driving up the main A road and could feel the brakes starting to bind. I stopped at traffic lights and clouds of smelly blue smoke was appearing from under the bonnet, ( it was obviously smoke from the brakes)  I actually thought we were on fire. Frightening!!!!

 

My specialist now rang Skoda as he was at a loss. Having run the problem through them he was told to change the Servo. By this time I was saying hold on, this is costing me a fortune. He offered to wave the labour charges on fitting the Master Cyl and the Servo so I agreed.

That solved the problem, no more binding and super smooth brakes after that.

 

So even though it didn't appear to be the Servo, that was indeed the culprit in my case.

 

Harry

 Thanks for this.  I'm glad to hear that even the special ones can fail to fix it straight away.  From reading threads from all over the place it seems like most parts of the brake system or wheel set up can cause this.  

 

Were you getting an equal amount of binding or was it one sided?

 

Cheers,

Dave

I haven't got round to hitting the rears with a hammer yet but I was coming close to generally taking to the car with a hammer, and a can of petrol and a match.  

2 hours ago, DaveSk said:

 Thanks for this.  I'm glad to hear that even the special ones can fail to fix it straight away.  From reading threads from all over the place it seems like most parts of the brake system or wheel set up can cause this.  

 

Were you getting an equal amount of binding or was it one sided?

 

Cheers,

Dave

Hi Dave,

By 'specialist' I was of course referring to a specialist rather than a main dealer. The guy I used had a Skoda dealership for some years and after ending the franchise, still keeps tabs on all the latest mods/changes etc and operates as a "Specialist"

 

All the binding I was getting was felt on the front calipers. I suppose the system favours the front brakes so this was to be expected. 

It was the front ones that overheated and smoked. As regards pulling, both sides grabbed but the pull was always more to the kerbside on mine.

 

The reason I posted in the thread was to make you aware they tried everything on mine and even after discounting the Servo, it turned out to be that component in the end.

 

Hope you get it fixed soon.

Regards,

Harry

5 hours ago, horkin said:

Hi Dave,

By 'specialist' I was of course referring to a specialist rather than a main dealer. The guy I used had a Skoda dealership for some years and after ending the franchise, still keeps tabs on all the latest mods/changes etc and operates as a "Specialist"

 

All the binding I was getting was felt on the front calipers. I suppose the system favours the front brakes so this was to be expected. 

It was the front ones that overheated and smoked. As regards pulling, both sides grabbed but the pull was always more to the kerbside on mine.

 

The reason I posted in the thread was to make you aware they tried everything on mine and even after discounting the Servo, it turned out to be that component in the end.

 

Hope you get it fixed soon.

Regards,

Harry

 

Cheers.  Your first post was much appreciated.  With it being more on the o/s front I was thinking master cylinder as that is where the system splits but as people have said, the amount of heat/drag might not be symmetrical.  I've done about 100 miles so far without a problem but no more than 20 miles on the motorway in any one stint.  

Finger's crossed it's sorted.  

All the best,

Dave

Final update hopefully (just to complete the story for others).

 

All seemed good.  Up to 360+ miles per tank from 280.

500 miles on the new discs/pads and all's good until the first very hot day and they bind again.  

Booked it into the local dealer for a brake fluid flush/change.  Brilliant service.  Car collected and brought back.  £55. 

This was at the end of April.  Perfect since.  Taken it on holiday with no problems.  I get a "ting" like bell sound coming from the rear when I release the brake sometimes but no problem.  Hope to have a look inside the rear drums at some point but happy for the main problem to be sorted.  

I've serviced everything else and now up to 380+ per tank.  I've read about better fuel consumption elsewhere on here but I'm not sure how I'm going to get more out of mine. 

Anyway, I'll eat humble pie about criticising the specialists.  

In hindsight I would've done a better job of cleaning the old calipers in the first place and not changed the hoses before getting it flushed and then trying new pads/discs.  

You live and learn.  

Thanks again, 

Dave

As suspected by posters on a different thread about this, the problem was related to the bearing being changed without using a proper press. Possibly an air gap, but at an MoT a keen eyed mechanic spotted a bent bit of the steering knuckle (the protruding bits that the pads sit between). I've replaced the knuckle with a scrap part that included a bearing and the problem has gone. No juddering, no overheating on that side and improved mpg. An expensive ball ache hopefully solved.