1 hour ago, Estate Man said:

Hello Harry, yes I've seen just about every review and some folks like it and some don't but mostly folks seem to like it. If you watch the video reviews online it gets considerable praise from every direction comparing well with the new Polo, Swift and others, whilst roadtesters pointing out their dislikes. Certainly the Fabia has the edge on handling at speed on country roads but the C3 is way more comfortable and yet still handles very well, and more than enough for most folks, but probably not boy racers! Bump thump is not bad on our Fabia's but on the C3 I'd defy anyone to say it wasn't better than a VAG car, as pointed out in many video tests. I've so far failed to fault the steering in anyway at all. It's light and well weighted on the cars I've driven and no midway play with instant response. Like you, I'm not new to driving cars and I've had my share of driving performance vehicles over the years and even taking part in competition driving, I'm and Advanced Driver and I am an IAM observer and EX instrutor so cars have to be good for me to rave about them. Although I would say the C3 is not the best in class car from many points of view but it's, as the reviews often say, a great car that does everything well for most folks. The C3 is very much faster on the pickup in real driving terms than the Fabia 1.2 and especially the 1,0litre turbo. That 205nm of torque, even in the automatic is largely responsible for that. There is very little difference in the acceleratin figures. This is actually reflected in the factory figures if you check them. 0-62mph is 9.3 on the C3 about the same as the Fabia. The auto C3 is slightly slower at 9.8 but various testers get different figures, some claiming the auto does it in 9 seconds, which I'd say was nearer the mark. But it comes down to lots of things and some of it's objective and some subjective as ever. Thanks for the comments Harry keep em coming. 

 

Well, you could say I just don't want you to leave us and change your lovely Skoda.

I've tried all I can to talk you out of it but you know I will always hope for the best for you Ian and hope you love your new car when you get it. Do let us know how you get on with it.

Hopefully you'll have your 'fun' and return to a Fabia some day.

Regards mate,

 

Harry

I just wouldn't touch any French muck.... sorry you ain't going to get the reliability or build quality of Skoda.

3 hours ago, Estate Man said:

ffox, nothing there mate. can you repost. I doubt it's anything I haven't seen though. 

 

Click on the link (underlined green on my screen).

 

If that fails try here:  https://www.whatcar.com/citroen/c3/hatchback/review/

I

James777,

for Czech build quality, reliability and no messing about if a warranty claim was needed then a Hyundai might well be the best manufacturer to go for.

Great thread. It's good have eyes peeled for different cars.

 

I considered the Swift but the boot is too small for a supermini and the Fabia is more comfortable. Head over heart.

2 hours ago, Offski said:

James777,

for Czech build quality, reliability and no messing about if a warranty claim was needed then a Hyundai might well be the best manufacturer to go for.

No I'd stick with Skoda all the way, I had a warranty claim on my Fabia within the first 12 months of ownership which involved a new mechatronic unit and new dual clutch and it all went pretty smoothly. Not missed a beat since.

5 hours ago, James777 said:

I just wouldn't touch any French muck.... sorry you ain't going to get the reliability or build quality of Skoda.

 

I think you have just made a well intended but very throw away remark concerning French cars. So since both my new 2016 AND brand new 2017 Skoda Fabia SE DSG Hatches had the reliability of sh*te I should be ok then...lol. My first 1.2TSI had to be replaced due to major engine troubles that couldn't be fixed (at 2000 miles on the clock), and my second one has already had new clutches at 4,600 miles, If the cars had not been under warranty this would have cost me dearly, and I mean mega bucks.  I'm not that impressed with Skoda's latest offerings and is just one of the reasons I want to change. Don't get me wrong, the Skoda brand is still a good one, although hampered by VW. I was treated right by my dealer and Skoda, but along with my other feelings about the Skoda Fabia, for me, it's time to change. I'm not a stranger to Citroen (we have them in the family and they are trouble free) who are completely different as a manufacturer and brand to what they were even 7-8 years ago. French muck. Really, I think you don't know much about modern Citroen cars, and maybe not enough about Skoda and VAG cars either. But this thread actually isn't about knocking Skoda. I still think overall the Fabia is a great car. Thank you for your comments though James.

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Estate Man

I'll give you my Skoda diecast model collection and my Deep Purple vinyl records if you don't get one and get another Fabia.

 

I will also eat my Emerson, Lake and Palmer Brain Salad Surgery t shirt.

55 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

 

I think you have just made a well intended but very throw away remark concerning French cars. So since both my new 2016 AND brand new 2017 Skoda Fabia SE DSG Hatches had the reliability of sh*te I should be ok then...lol. My first 1.2TSI had to be replaced due to major engine troubles that couldn't be fixed (at 2000 miles on the clock), and my second one has already had new clutches at 4,600 miles, If the cars had not been under warranty this would have cost me dearly, and I mean mega bucks.  I'm not that impressed with Skoda's latest offerings and is just one of the reasons I want to change. Don't get me wrong, the Skoda brand is still a good one, although hampered by VW. I was treated right by my dealer and Skoda, but along with my other feelings about the Skoda Fabia, for me, it's time to change. I'm not a stranger to Citroen (we have them in the family and they are trouble free) who are completely different as a manufacturer and brand to what they were even 7-8 years ago. French muck. Really, I think you don't know much about modern Citroen cars, and maybe not enough about Skoda and VAG cars either. But this thread actually isn't about knocking Skoda. I still think overall the Fabia is a great car. Thank you for your comments though James.

Oh your very welcome and thank you for your pleasant feedback.

I can honestly say that I am no Haynes Manual however I know more about cars than the average person. My personal preference is to not ever buy a Citroen. I am personally very please with my Skoda experience.

1 hour ago, RickW said:

I'll give you my Skoda diecast model collection and my Deep Purple vinyl records if you don't get one and get another Fabia.

 

I will also eat my Emerson, Lake and Palmer Brain Salad Surgery t shirt.

 

This I gotta see Rick...lol! But nah...think I'm going to do the deal at the moment. I've just had (literally 10 mins ago by email) an amazing offer from a dealer I've been speaking to for a couple of days now, and who has access to four brand new cars with the colours and trim that I want and with the auto box.  They are currently abroad at a port. He's throwing in just about everything I want and has just knocked off another £250 and thrown in a free mat set worth £90. A total saving of £3,800+ off the quoted otr price. That's the top spec auto with just about everything in it you can ever want. He's even absorbing the Carwow fee by not passing it on to me. The dealer is doing this for everyone just this month. Citroen generally don't give much away on new cars so this is very welcome. 

1 hour ago, James777 said:

Oh your very welcome and thank you for your pleasant feedback.

I can honestly say that I am no Haynes Manual however I know more about cars than the average person. My personal preference is to not ever buy a Citroen. I am personally very please with my Skoda experience.

 

Thanks James. I'm glad you are very pleased with your car. They are one of the best out there no question about that. 

 

Don't know if these videos will help folks understand what the Citroen is about and why folks like them. Worth bearing in mind the cars in virtually all the video tests are early models. Touch screens have all been updated with new software to make them faster since the launch of the car. And the cars have had some other minor tweaks to address one or two comments made by testers. But the C3 has so far been trouble free and is well made, albeit that it's been out for just 18 months, so still early days. However, I've driven a high mileage auto model already which has had a very hard life and it went very well indeed, No issues.

 

 

 

Edited 17 July, 20187 yr by Estate Man

1 hour ago, Estate Man said:

 

This I gotta see Rick...lol! But nah...think I'm going to do the deal at the moment. I've just had (literally 10 mins ago by email) an amazing offer from a dealer I've been speaking to for a couple of days now, and who has access to four brand new cars with the colours and trim that I want and with the auto box.  They are currently abroad at a port. He's throwing in just about everything I want and has just knocked off another £250 and thrown in a free mat set worth £90. A total saving of £3,800+ off the quoted otr price. That's the top spec auto with just about everything in it you can ever want. He's even absorbing the Carwow fee by not passing it on to me. The dealer is doing this for everyone just this month. Citroen generally don't give much away on new cars so this is very welcome. 

 

Ok Estate Man retired techie,I can clearly see you've made your mind  up and even my extremely generous offer hasn't  stopped you.

 

Sounds like you got an excellent deal. Happy driving and remember to let us know how you get on with your new toy.

Thanks Rick. Yes, I've made up my mind completely now. Time will tell if I'm making a mistake. However, the engines and gearboxes along with the running gear is well tried and tested and has proved trouble free in all the Peugeots and Citroens out there. But your offer is generous and has been noted in despatches. A true friend, even if you failed!   In truth, I'm unlikely to leave the site as I think this is one of the best sites in town, with some of the nicest folks onboard (obviously, not talking about you Rick...lol). There are many folks on here that I've known for years and they knew me when I was active in the motor trade.

 

Although I'm properly retired now and have been for a little while (I'm not yet 65), the force is still strong within me and the urge to strip and tune motorcycle engines and develop projects is still pulling me in that direction. Although the deal isn't yet done concerning the new car, it should be an August delivery. Not concerned about the new reg for September, and in any case it will cost more in September and the value of my PX will go down.

 

I'll let you all know how it goes and post some photos for anyone that is interested. I'll make a direct comparison with the Fabia too. Thanks to everyone who tried to stop me...any further comments, please keep em coming! I'd like to hear them. 

18 hours ago, horkin said:

 

Well, you could say I just don't want you to leave us and change your lovely Skoda.

I've tried all I can to talk you out of it but you know I will always hope for the best for you Ian and hope you love your new car when you get it. Do let us know how you get on with it.

Hopefully you'll have your 'fun' and return to a Fabia some day.

Regards mate,

 

Harry

 

Thanks Harry. I did after all ask you to try and stop me!  All you comments noted. My brother in law has just bought a new Mercedes C43 AMG. It's hugely expensive and it's at the bottom of the JD Power reliability chart. It's just above Landrover and BMW. They do break down a lot with lots of issue, very much in line with what I experienced years ago when I bought my first new Mercedes. Yet folks still buy them in droves. My Citroen is much higher up the chart and still climbing. It should be much higher next year if it continues to be trouble free. But I think it proves folks buy cars for lots of reasons as you have eluded to on many occasions. Glad you are pleased with your Fabia. They are a good car. I guess mostly it's that I'm bored with mine. Really, that's how it kinda should be if you want a reliable car. In truth, rejecting my first Skoda 1.2TSI which took overall 5 months put me off the brand a fair bit. I had to call upon my skill as a technician, spend money on reports, and faff around an incredible amount to get a result. But eventially Skoda had no where to go and relented. So I bear no ill will towards Skoda at all, but it was a hassle during which time the brand became tainted to me because of what they put me and my wife through. None of that was even necessary as it was plain as day my car was not right. But hey ho...that's life! Bye for now Harry. 

Edited 18 July, 20187 yr by Estate Man

I don’t hold much value in the JD Power survey as the owners perception of value carries more weight than it should hence why VAG brands are spread out so far from near the top to the bottom despite using the same components. 

In regards to Citroen they’re good cars with a negative brand image from long ago problems. A client of mine changed their fleet of Skoda's to Citroen as the former had proved to be expensive to run and not very reliable. The staff were up in arms about with some threatening to leave. At the end of the leases they were replaced with Citroens again and the staff welcomed them. The reason running costs are shown to be lower even with additional cars added to the fleet. 

Live recently bought an old cheap Citroen C5 estate as we have a large dog now so as not wreck our other cars. Even at 10 year old everything works correctly, no squeaks or rattles and the MPG has been calculated at just under 45mpg which is great as it is a 2.0hdi doing short urban journeys. Again this is much better than the Mk2 FL Octavia CR VRS that I had which would only get just over 50mpg on very careful motorway driving. 

Only downside is the quirky French controls which take some getting used to hopefully newer models will have some better thought put into them. 

Reliability, what is it? It relates to ones own experiences with the cars they own. I've always said anything that moves, wears or can fail and that applies as much to a Rolls as a mini or a multi million pounds airliner that can fall from the sky.

 

I've had 4 Fabias and only ever had an issue with the Mk 1 which needed a new brake servo at around 45k. Other than that they've been sweet. Other owners have experienced problems.

 

This is not a Fabia or VAG thing, it happens in all makes. It keeps the RAC and AA etc in business and provides the service centres with work. Manufacturers make spare parts for the purpose of replacing  failed or broken bits.

 

My view is enjoy your cars, or, as many do, enjoy moaning about them. This is a Skoda site and is primarily for those who love the brand so don't be surprised if one or two of us kick off when we hear people telling us it's Skoda or VAG who are the ogre's and other brands are better for this that or the other reason. It's NOT TRUE, our little Fabias can hold their own with the best of them. By all means try something else, we've all done it, but Skoda is the reason so many come back.

 

Harry

CWARD, yes indeed, A story I've heard many times from many folks. Interesting you should mention the point about "no rattles or squeaks" concerning you Citroen. I've driven several of the new cars now and none of them had any squeaks or rattles either, and one of them was over a year old with 14,800 miles on the clock. It had been well thrashed. Not a single rattle or squeak. Even my sisters two Citroens one of which is over 10 years old doesn't squeak or rattle that I've ever heard. Yet my Skoda Fabia is now rattling and creaking everywhere at just 16 months old. Most annoying, but I still think it's a good car. Regarding JD Power, it is a very respected survey and it's the only one that the motor trade takes any real notice of. Customer reports are not the only thing the results are based upon so it seems to be fairly representative of what is actually happening to brands. I agree that Citroen and indeed Peugeot both have suffered from a poorer brand image than deserved because of past issues. but that seems to be way behind them now in terms of actual build quality and reliiability. It's a bit like Skoda some years ago regarding their reputation, and even today. I find it interesting that the PSA group has decided to steer clear of Dual Clutch Gearboxes for their mainstream cars in favour of Aisin newly developed ultra efficient torque converter boxes. The same box is used across the range of Citroen and Peugeot cars and it's capable of carrying a lot of power and torque, yet remain smooth and fast with it's changes. When questioned about this Citroens UK told me they wanted to avoid some of the issues that manufacturers of the DSG type of gearbox are suffering. The newly developed Aisin box is apparently very efficient, strong and smooth using the best of trusted technology. It's not a sealed for life unit and requires an oil and filter change every 4 years. This is good news in my book. 

46 minutes ago, Estate Man said:

CWARD, yes indeed, A story I've heard many times from many folks. Interesting you should mention the point about "no rattles or squeaks" concerning you Citroen. I've driven several of the new cars now and none of them had any squeaks or rattles either, and one of them was over a year old with 14,800 miles on the clock. It had been well thrashed. Not a single rattle or squeak. Even my sisters two Citroens one of which is over 10 years old doesn't squeak or rattle that I've ever heard. Yet my Skoda Fabia is now rattling and creaking everywhere at just 16 months old. Most annoying, but I still think it's a good car. Regarding JD Power, it is a very respected survey and it's the only one that the motor trade takes any real notice of. Customer reports are not the only thing the results are based upon so it seems to be fairly representative of what is actually happening to brands. I agree that Citroen and indeed Peugeot both have suffered from a poorer brand image than deserved because of past issues. but that seems to be way behind them now in terms of actual build quality and reliiability. It's a bit like Skoda some years ago regarding their reputation, and even today. I find it interesting that the PSA group has decided to steer clear of Dual Clutch Gearboxes for their mainstream cars in favour of Aisin newly developed ultra efficient torque converter boxes. The same box is used across the range of Citroen and Peugeot cars and it's capable of carrying a lot of power and torque, yet remain smooth and fast with it's changes. When questioned about this Citroens UK told me they wanted to avoid some of the issues that manufacturers of the DSG type of gearbox are suffering. The newly developed Aisin box is apparently very efficient, strong and smooth using the best of trusted technology. It's not a sealed for life unit and requires an oil and filter change every 4 years. This is good news in my book. 

 

I hadn’t had an automatic gearbox since owning a Puegeot 406, which had been a long while ago. It was a 4 speed that held into gears for too long but then was slow to change down too. Getting the Octavia VRS with DSG was a bit of a revelation and I enjoyed it at first but then you started to noticed it wasn’t all that smooth after all but it was still a big step up on manuals although the service intervals added to running costs. Moving to a BMW with the ZF 8 speed you realised what smooth and responsive automatics should be like and why it’s such a popular gearbox. Much more realistic service intervals too make the running costs more pocket friendly. I’ve not had the chance to drive an automatic Citroen but if it’s as good as the ZF units it’s going to be popular. 

The Octavia squeaked a lot. If you put the seat in the lowest position which I preferred it would squeak but raise it up and it would be silent so I ended up driving around in a position I didn’t actually like just for a quiet ride. Various bits of interior trim squeaked and that was down to the use of metal push fit clips that they use that are pushed into holes cut in the metal of the body. It’s only the paint that prevents them rubbing but soon enough that wears away and the squeaking starts. Audi and VW's that I’ve removed interior trim from use the same clips but the body work is fitted with plastic sockets to receive the clips hence no squeaking. Just the little extras that add to the cost but make a huge difference to the quality and driving enjoyment. 

Just a few years back the EAT6 box in the Citroen diesels and some petrols was a a bit marmite, and even a high risk to own.

I knew locally a couple of Picasso owners that had autobox and turbo issues with nearly new cars.

 

I drove various.

When i was looking at the Cactus i drove a diesel and a couple of petrols with the EAT6 and liked them. Much comfort, liked the rear drums, liked the bubble wrap.

Tried a C3 petrol as well and it was fine, tried the latest C4 diesel auto and really liked it.

I would like a Petrol Auto Cactus & with more bubble wrap.  If they did one i think i would get one.

Edited 18 July, 20187 yr by Offski

My wife was interested to see this.   She wanted  petrol, automatic, almond green, sat nav,  rear sensors and aircon.  Simple enough you'd think - but impossible according to the Citroen configurator.

3 minutes ago, ffox said:

My wife was interested to see this.   She wanted  petrol, automatic, almond green, sat nav,  rear sensors and aircon.  Simple enough you'd think - but impossible according to the Citroen configurator.

 

Yes you really have to buy the 'Flair' which is the upper end of the range to get that. Mine is going to be Almond Green and will have all the trimmings, including power folding mirrors, emergency auto braking, plust it will have the Euro 6.2 engine etc. You wife can have exactly what she wants if you go for the Flair with the 110ps engine. I'm buying mine at a very very good price. It's better equipped than the top of the range Skoda too and yet is a lot less money if you pay cash, and I mean a lot less money! A pcp works out pretty good too as they are doing 0% plus money off, but they don't give that much away compared to Skoda. I've been told my car will be ready for collection in two weeks or so and it's MY20. 

16 hours ago, Offski said:

Just a few years back the EAT6 box in the Citroen diesels and some petrols was a a bit marmite, and even a high risk to own.

I knew locally a couple of Picasso owners that had autobox and turbo issues with nearly new cars.

 

I drove various.

When i was looking at the Cactus i drove a diesel and a couple of petrols with the EAT6 and liked them. Much comfort, liked the rear drums, liked the bubble wrap.

Tried a C3 petrol as well and it was fine, tried the latest C4 diesel auto and really liked it.

I would like a Petrol Auto Cactus & with more bubble wrap.  If they did one i think i would get one.

 

Yes, the new facelifted Cactus is amazing Offski. It doesn't have the airbump flashings now but instead a nice rail on the side of the car making it still look very attractive. Very nice and it drives well with the auto box. There are some good deals on them. The EAT6 box is a very new box and is now across the range. They've gotten rid of the horrid robo auto change box used on so many of their cars of the past and that folks didn't like much in favour of more conventional technology. However, it's bang up to date and it locks up quickly and is very efficient. Changes are very quick and smooth but not quite a quick as a DSG. 

The Catcus and C3 have much improved reliability compared with Citroens of 10 years ago, so old myths don't apply as much.

 

All said, I'm not courageous enough to take a punt on a French car, but most importantly Skodas are simply better and cheaper to buy. 

 

23 hours ago, CWARD said:

Moving to a BMW with the ZF 8 speed you realised what smooth and responsive automatics should be like and why it’s such a popular gearbox.

 

ZF gearboxes have become so good that many manufacturers no longer bother with dual clutch gearboxes because of extra weight, high complexity and inferior reliability to slushboxes.

I tried EAT6 boxes when they first came out, and it is not so long back since they started to become more acceptable with the diesels,

that were pretty crap IME.

 

I had a 2001 Citroen Saxo from 2001 bought for taking my Mum about & her to drive 5 miles a week, & kept it until selling it as a scrapper 4 years ago with under 54,000 miles on it.

So lots of times it never did much and sat around, for a few years near the seaside which was the death of it.

From day one collected from the dealers the brakes were crap, the 1.4 16v & 4 speed auto were great. 

I used to take it Auto Testing.  (fly off handbrake, better fluid, shoes and pads.)

In the end there just got to be too much rust / weakness to weld more patches to and it was unsafe.

 

EDIT,  I sold for Spare or Repairs.

Just checked the MOT History, i went through 2 more MOT's.  Amazing...

 

Edited 19 July, 20187 yr by Offski

1 hour ago, ffox said:

My wife was interested to see this.   She wanted  petrol, automatic, almond green, sat nav,  rear sensors and aircon.  Simple enough you'd think - but impossible according to the Citroen configurator.

 

Skoda is the only sub-premium car manufactuer that allow you to spec options à la carte.  This is very unique.

 

Almost every other manufacturer restrict you to trims. Want satnav? Order the "prestige trim" that's restricted to the expensive top engine that comes with panoramic roof, heated steering wheel and lots of other option you don't need.

 

Even Mercedes to a certain extent don't allow you to mix and match options the way you like.