1.2 tsi oil filter mounting

[baj25]

Hi,

Following pic is of the oil filter mounting on my engine. Does it look 'normal' i.e. nothing missing or obviously wrong? Filter is still not retaining oil when engine is stopped, 3 filters tried so I don't think it is a filter problem. Thanks for looking, Brian

[bigjohn]

 

 

If 2014 or earlier then it probably will be the EA111 cam chain engine with the high level upside down filter (top left)

Did you use an OEM filter? - they have a non return valve fitted. You also have to be careful not to overtighten as the filter has a valve to drain the oil back to the sump when removing the filter during a service - if overtightened whilst being fitted this can distort causing the oil to drain back prematurely (and even possibly reduce oil pressure!)

 

Later 1.2tsi engines have a totally different cam belt engine where the oil filter is near the sump.

 

 

Edited 18 July, 2018 by bigjohn

[Ootohere]

Is there a rubber seal 'o' ring in the middle and only one, the old one removed?

 

What is the filters you are getting.  Part Number?

[baj25]

It is a 2012 (sorry, should have said), with the upside down filter. I have tried 2 MANN filters and an oem. Tightened firmly by hand, and later with a torque wrench to the figure I found in the forums here. There is 1 O ring on the central spigot, and 1 rubber washer seated in the groove in the filter.

[bigjohn]

 

 

What makes you think the oil filter is not retaining oil? 

 

[baj25]

Previous times I changed filter, oil ran out ( onto my rags protecting the alternator), last 3 times I took filter off, nothing. And it is a bit rattly on start up, which is what I'd most like to resolve. Quite a few rattle problems seem to be associated with filter not holding oil.

[awfabia]

Baj,  bigjohn has the probable answer about the valve letting the oil back into the sump when the engine is stopped.  I've done around five oil changes on my 2013 Tsi 1.2 with the 'on top' filter and always put precautionary tags to catch any oil when removing filter but didn't wonder why not much spillage occurred. 

[xman]

The oil filter has a sprung plastic carrier in which is mounted a big thick rubber washer. When you screw the filter on the rubber washer covers the smiley orifice which is a sump return gallery.  It is in a sprung carrier so the washer can seal it shut properly and remain sealed with temperature/shrinkage/swelling etc.

 

 

When you unscrew the filter approx 1½ turns the seal lifts off the smiley hole to release the oil from the filter back into the sump and so stop spilling over the engine. (Give it a minute to drain before unscrewing completely)

 

The rubber washer with the machined orifice form the "drain down valve"

 

Look at the filter before you fit it and push down the sprung bit and you should understand.

 

When removing the filter check the rubber ring is still on the filter and not lurking in the oil of the housing as it sometimes does when the filter had been overtightened.

Edited 20 July, 2018 by xman

[MinerWilly]

Sorry to drag up an old thread but I bought a 2013 1.2 tsi Yeti a few days ago and I am going to immediately do an oil change , I've done a few on my 1.4tsi Octavia and the oil filter is also on the top .

   My question relates to something I'm sure I've seen on several threads (which I can't find!) . I read or heard something about that after changing the oil and before starting the engine that it was good practice to pull a particular fuse out to stop the engine from starting and this had something to do with the oil pressure and the notorious cam chains and tensioners in these Tsi models . 

    Any advice and explanation would be a great help as I run the Octavia as a taxi and change my oil about every 7000 miles and the Yeti has now become the family car and I'd like to get 10 years out of it hopefully. Thanks.

[sandman]

Not heard that before

Edited 21 November, 2018 by sandman

[xman]

5 hours ago, MinerWilly said:

 

   My question relates to something I'm sure I've seen on several threads (which I can't find!) . I read or heard something about that after changing the oil and before starting the engine that it was good practice to pull a particular fuse out to stop the engine from starting and this had something to do with the oil pressure and the notorious cam chains and tensioners in these Tsi models . 

    Any advice and explanation would be a great help as I run the Octavia as a taxi and change my oil about every 7000 miles and the Yeti has now become the family car and I'd like to get 10 years out of it hopefully. Thanks.

 

No need to faff about with fuses, especially as 2013 models have the latest engine and camchain mods. Just change the filter, fill with oil and start.

 

Unlikely, but if it makes a loud rattle on start, immediately turn off the engine, and then restart.

 

Just make sure the engine is never turned backwards while its stood, and that applies at all times not just when servicing. For instance, if you park on a hill facing uphill, don't leave in a forward gear with no handbrake. (Reverse gear would be ok in this scenario). If the engine turns backwards, the trailing side of the chain tightens and can push the hydraulic tensioner (which is on the trailing side) back or even release it completely which means the chain will then be very loose on the next engine start, potentially coming off or jumping a sprocket if the chain is stretched enough due to wear. Hope you understand what I am getting at.

 

Same advice applies to all VAG cam chain engines, eg 1.4 tsi as the design is similar, a hydraulic tensioner on the trailing side of the chain.

Edited 21 November, 2018 by xman

[MinerWilly]

5 minutes ago, xman said:

 

No need to faff about with fuses, especially as 2013 models have the latest engine and camchain mods. Just change the filter, fill with oil and start.

 

Unlikely, but if it makes a loud rattle on start, immediately turn off the engine, and then restart.

 

Just make sure the engine is never turned backwards while its stood, and that applies at all times not just when servicing. For instance, if you park on a hill facing uphill, don't leave in gear with no handbrake. If the engine turns backwards, the trailing side of the chain tightens and can push the hydraulic tensioner back or even release it completely which means the chain will be loose on the next engine start, potentially coming off or jumping a sprocket if the chain is stretched enough due to wear.

 

Thanks xman for the advice, I will be careful with that in my taxi too . It's a late 2012 1.4tsi Octavia and I wonder whether that got the improved tensioners . I've now found out where I'd seen/read  the initial worry about oil filters on the top of the engine , he said to pull the fuel relay then turn key for about 10secs 3 times . It's at the 1 min 30 seconds mark.

 

[xman]

All very good in theory, but, in practice, pulling fuses and turning your engine over will likely cause ecu error codes and could lead to other issues which may require VCDS to reset.

 

Wear will be minimal on that initial start, there will still be old oil on camlobes, in bearings etc which gives basic  protection for several seconds at least. 

 

A late 2012 1.4tsi engine should be fine. Just change oil regularly (10k max)

Edited 21 November, 2018 by xman

[MinerWilly]

Thanks Xman thats very reassuring, I'm changing every 7000 miles . Oil is so damn cheap and new engines so expensive ! 

[bigjohn]

3 hours ago, xman said:

 

Just make sure the engine is never turned backwards while its stood, and that applies at all times not just when servicing. For instance, if you park on a hill facing uphill, don't leave in a forward gear with no handbrake. (Reverse gear would be ok in this scenario). If the engine turns backwards, the trailing side of the chain tightens and can push the hydraulic tensioner (which is on the trailing side) back or even release it completely which means the chain will then be very loose on the next engine start, potentially coming off or jumping a sprocket if the chain is stretched enough due to wear. Hope you understand what I am getting at.

 

Same advice applies to all VAG cam chain engines, eg 1.4 tsi as the design is similar, a hydraulic tensioner on the trailing side of the chain.

 

Vey sound advice indeed - The cam chain also drives the high pressure pump and can be hard to turn and if the engine is turned backwards all those forces to turn the engine are also applied back through the tensioner.

 

It's not just leaving in gear with no handbrake that can cause an issue - if you leave in the wrong gear up a steep hill and then apply the handbrake , when you release the footbrake the car will roll a bit until the suspension takes the strain of the handbrake possibly turning the engine a bit (which can be enough to retract the chain tensioner).

 

In addition as mentioned above - Particularly with these direct injection / cam chain engines clean oil is the life blood!  Cam chains are very oil sensitive and the direct injection can give the oil a hard time. Even after a low number of 1000's of miles the oil starts turning dark - longlife servicing intervals not good for this engine.

.

 

 

Edited 21 November, 2018 by bigjohn