Nearside Front Grinding Noise

[Andy_B]

Hi, all. I’ve had a problem develop on my mk1 1.9 130 over the weekend. On Friday I had to give the car the beans from a standing start to get onto a very busy roundabout. While there was no wheel spin there was a bit of axle tramp at the front and I heard a loud thud which was quite like hitting a big pothole at speed. This left the car with a squeak when letting off the power which I was going to have a look at as I thought it might be a mount or something going slightly buggered.

 

Before I had a chance to get under the car for a look, a grinding sound developed. It came on very fast rather than gradually. It’s a very heavy metal on metal sound that seemed to get a lot worse when turning at certain angles. Also when hitting bumps in the road on the front nearside.

 

i took the nearside wheel off and checked for any obvious damage but couldn’t see any. I also checked the wheel for play and rolled the wheel to check the smoothness of the bearing. I don’t think the bearing could be in better condition, there’s no play at all and it’s smooth as can be. So my first probable cause of the noise went out the window with that.

 

My current thought is the driveshaft as the CV joint isn’t making any clicking noises, etc. and it was put on only about a year ago. The issue definitely seems directly related to drive, is only coming from the front nearside and I can’t find any correlation with use of the clutch or gearbox.

 

Any help would be very much appreciated. Hopefully somebody here has had similar issues and can give me some pointers.

 

thanks. 

 

Andy

[MikeTheThinker]

Apologies if I'm staying the obvious but just in case, have you checked the brakes for wear, trapped debris etc?

[Andy_B]

Don’t worry about that, sometimes stating the obvious works wonders.I did have a check and the brakes are as they should be. I put new TRW discs and pads on all round this year and there doesn’t seem to be any problem there at all at the moment.

 

The fact that there’s a squeak specifically when taking my foot off the throttle makes me think I can eliminate anything non-drive-related as well.

[Andy_B]

I should also say that the grinding starts immediately as soon as the car moves so it’s not something that’s only present at certain speeds or when turning but turning does make it worse.

[Mankee]

Have you checked that you still have a full complement of bolts holding your dog bone mount to the subframe and gearbox? I lost the centre bolt from mine one day and it made all sorts of scary noises as the engine rocked back and forth like a nutter.

[Andy_B]

It could potentially be that, I’ll have a look underneath the car later. 

[Andy_B]

Right, dog bone mount is fine. I’ve done a little more testing and there’s a noticeable squeak when turning the engine over which then stops except for perhaps a small rattle. This happens exactly the same whether the clutch is in or out. The car drives relatively noise free until decelerating and then a squeak can be heard momentarily.

[Andy_B]

[Dean]

This is weird as I have just developed the same issues last Thurs. Had the car in the garage and they cannot find the issue! Checked all wheel bearings, brakes. I even went out with the mechanic to show him the noise.

The sound gets louder if I turn the wheel to the left, clutch up and down, in gear or out of gear. It get's louder at 40mph, and it sounds like a grinding sound like a wheel bearing. I thought it might be the tyre treads but these are fine too.

Like yourself the only thing I can think it is, is the drive shaft to the gearbox.

I do however have an advisory on MOT for slight play in steering rack ( Nearside Play in steering rack inner joint ) - this for me maybe the issue, which I will have to get sorted out now as the sound is getting louder.

It maybe worth checking that, so I hope it helps in some way.

[Andy_B]

Steering rack is less than a year old and is polybushed (not for performance, just for cost effectiveness). The tyres are all fairly new Michelin PS4’s (again, don’t want to make it sound like I’m a boy racer, I just like to have the best tyres on my cars as possible for safety sake).

 

does your car make the noise on turnover and when changing gear (the decelleration when changing gear seams to always cause the squeak on mine)?

[Dean]

56 minutes ago, Andy_B said:

does your car make the noise on turnover and when changing gear (the decelleration when changing gear seams to always cause the squeak on mine)?

 

No only when rolling, changing gear makes no difference. (didn't mean to hop on the topic)

[Andy_B]

34 minutes ago, DeanVRS20VT said:

 

No only when rolling, changing gear makes no difference. (didn't mean to hop on the topic)

 

No worries, it’ll be something different from my problem though if it doesn’t make the noise when changing gear. There’s something specific happening when the power is let off. I’m thinking it must be a mount as I can’t find an issue with the drivetrain or the steering components and there’s a noise on turnover. Perhaps play in the dog bone joint but I’ll have to investigate that further with the car on axel stands I think.

 

bloody annoying when you don’t know what’s broke, isn’t it?

Edited 27 August, 2018 by Andy_B

[bigjohn]

I'd check all the engine/gearbox/suspension mounts as they get a major pasting if you axle tramp. Any rubber weakness/tearing and they'll be toast. The one on top of the gearbox is put under a lot of stress and failure can cause the engine to rock backwards / forwards and also potentially drop down - and it's on the nearside! This can also put pressure on the drive-shafts, exhaust and gear linkages. 

 

Remember axle tramping is the winding up of the power train / mounts/suspension one way followed by a rapid traction release - multiple times!

 

Lift the bonnet and stand in front of the car with you head looking down on the engine - Firmly rock backwards and forwards and listen.

You might need someone listening with their head under the car at the same time.

Edited 27 August, 2018 by bigjohn

[Andy_B]

I will when the sun is out, thanks. I think I’ve eliminated all bushes and mounts on the underside and suspension so I’ll have a look topside when I can.

[bigjohn]

The top one failed (gearbox -> chassis) on mine due to old age and caused all sorts of problems and funny noises, squeaks and bangs - especially on drive takeup/ release, worse in lower gears - took a while to work out what was going on. It looked OK - but it wasn't.  E.g. the squeak on mine was my exhaust rubbing on the bolt-on crossmember

 

Beware seized bolts - especially in the captive nuts in the chassis.

 

PS may look different on your PD 130

 

 

 

Edited 27 August, 2018 by bigjohn

[fwdnewbie]

9 hours ago, bigjohn said:

The top one failed (gearbox -> chassis) on mine due to old age and caused all sorts of problems and funny noises, squeaks and bangs - especially on drive takeup/ release, worse in lower gears - took a while to work out what was going on. It looked OK - but it wasn't.  E.g. the squeak on mine was my exhaust rubbing on the bolt-on crossmember

 

Beware seized bolts - especially in the captive nuts in the chassis.

 

PS may look different on your PD 130

 

 

 

 

What was the age and mileage on yours when you changed it @bigjohn

 

I seem to get clunking when I come to a stop, pull away and go into reverse and I think you've just identified it

 

Did you go original or repro? 

[Mankee]

Ben, I spent around £100 on a new genuine, vRS-specific upper gearbox mount when I was chasing a wobble that ended up being a driveshaft inner CV that had fallen apart due to water ingress from a pinprick hole. Turns out my original mount, which was 12 years and 140k miles old at the time, was fine. I've still got this new mount I bought if you want me to send it down to you to test?

[bigjohn]

1 hour ago, fwdnewbie said:

 

What was the age and mileage on yours when you changed it @bigjohn

 

I seem to get clunking when I come to a stop, pull away and go into reverse and I think you've just identified it

 

Did you go original or repro? 

 

Try rocking engine backwards and forwards and listen.

 

It was 17years old and 126k miles. It looked OK but a new one sorted all my issues (well the car ones!). Actually it made a big difference to how the car drove - seemed tighther/smoother. For an old timer it drives surprisingly well. 

 

I didn't change it myself - passed it to my trusty indy - I've got to that age that whilst still ableish life is too short . I only do jobs now when I have to or when there is some other benefit for the car - eg when I changed the rad I went to town on some front end rustproofing whilst things were in bits/up in the air (The Octavia body isn't rusting much but the rad mounting frame was - Front subframe received attention whilst I was there as well)

Edited 28 August, 2018 by bigjohn

[fwdnewbie]

2 hours ago, Mankee said:

Ben, I spent around £100 on a new genuine, vRS-specific upper gearbox mount when I was chasing a wobble that ended up being a driveshaft inner CV that had fallen apart due to water ingress from a pinprick hole. Turns out my original mount, which was 12 years and 140k miles old at the time, was fine. I've still got this new mount I bought if you want me to send it down to you to test?

 

 

Cheers Mankee, I'll let you know on that, the car is going in for MOT next Friday and getting a new flexi in the downpipe at the same time.

Im going to get the guys to poke around with their pry bars and see what they can find.

 

I blame you for all the issues my car has, it was fine until you allowed me to put so much power through it 

[Mankee]

I accept no responsibility for your car falling apart when chasing power.

 

If you fancy a drive up to Suffolk again, we can bung the mount in on my drive and you can test it. I did mine in a supermarket car park round the corner from TPS, where I got the mount from. Was pretty disappointed when it made no difference.

[fwdnewbie]

@Andy B my money is on a driveshaft or CV and from how you described it being caused it makes sense

 

Looks very much like mine is my O/S outer CV joint.

 

It doesn't click constantly only when the gear is selected and its almost as if slack is being taken up rather than just being tight

 

I know your noise is different but them bearings can go in all manner of crazy angles, check the photo below of when my N/S outer fell apart, bit of extreme example as the wheel wouldn't even turn but the noise was terrible 

 

 

[lovemaskoda]

Check the driveshaft and hub splines for wear/slippage.

[Andy_B]

The noise is there when I turn the engine over, I’m now thinking it has to be a mount but I need to get a friend over to help me diagnose it. Assuming this noise (which was never there before) is the cause of the issues, could it be at all drive related? It’s there whether the clutch is in or out.

[lovemaskoda]

If the noise is there with the clutch in then it is most certainly engine related, does the engine move excessively when letting the clutch up?

This can be verified by leaving the bonnet up and having someone watch as you take up drive.

One of the usual suspects if there is excessive movement is the dog bone mount that sits between the gearbox and the crossmember.

Hope this helps. Dave

[Andy_B]

The dog bone looks ok to me (and there’s a pic on this thread) but I’ll have to look into it further when I have help and tools. I’ll need to check the clutch engine interaction at that time as well.

 

I can induce the noise to a small degree by pulling on the engine towards the front of the car but it doesn’t feel like there’s a lot of play in it.