This came into my thoughts today, when posting on another topic on Briskoda.

 

It seems to me that the Hot Hatch are being tamed down style wise, with Ford having the latest ST Models RS models all in a five door and I am first to say that coming from a Ford man the latest RS Focus does not set my heart on fire of a Ford I would own, even the fiesta ST is now available as a five door.

 

I was behind a Seat Leon FR on Sunday the current shape and it just looked like a standard Leon with a FR Badge. And at my house today I was parked next to what I thought was a Black Clio which later turned out to be a RS model.

 

It seems that every car manufacturer seems to be taking a safe approach to the Sports model in the line up with the exception of Honda.

 

Whats People’s Thoughts??

 

Davy

Agree Davy, 100%.  I see most hot hatch badges as a trim level now.  The exclusive body shape, trim and engines are no longer just available on the models with 'the badge', they can be had on other models in the range.  Most hot hatches now have a diesel variant too which somewhat dilutes the hot hatch moniker too IMHO.  Though there's obviously a strong market for them and why should you not be allowed to have 'fun' when you also have to consider running costs.

 

I think the hyper hatch is now the car that replaces the hot hatches of old where there was a clear differentiator between say a Renault 5 Turbo and the 1.L Campus model.   

 

 

 

 

8 minutes ago, penguin17 said:

Most hot hatches now have a diesel variant too which somewhat dilutes the hot hatch moniker too IMHO.

 

I think the hyper hatch is now the car that replaces the hot hatches of old where there was a clear differentiator between say a Renault 5 Turbo and the 1.L Campus model. 

100% agree, there is something fundamentally wrong about a MINI Cooper Diesel - the words (John) Cooper & diesel just don't belong together.

 

I loved my Renault 5 GT Turbo (owned from 1985 until 1991 and sadly missed especially after Brodie Brittan Racing tweaked the engine and the front suspension geometry), there was so many special trim parts that it just couldn't be confused with any other Renault 5 of the time.

Edited 4 September, 20187 yr by SWBoy

Thank goodness you can actually still get Hot Hatches from 150ps-300 ish that have The Cloak of Invisibility' while there are still Blinged and Winged up ones that stand out a mile if exceeding the speed limits and catch all the attention.

Then the not even Warm Hatches with, s-Line, r-line, ST-LIne, M-Sport, AMG badging that are just show and little go.

FR is a trim level & some are hotter than warm, where as Seat Cupra or Cupra Leon is the Hotter Models.

Edited 4 September, 20187 yr by Offski

12 minutes ago, Offski said:

Thank goodness you can actually still get Hot Hatches from 150ps-300 ish that have The Cloak of Invisibility' while there are still Blinged and Winged up ones that stand out a mile if exceeding the speed limits and catch all the attention.

Then the not even Warm Hatches with, s-Line, r-line, ST-LIne, M-Sport, AMG badging that are just show and little go.

 

 

Here’s for example Fords latest warm hatch offering the ST Line X the sportest model on offer.

 

Dread to think how much a ST and A RS will cost

 

 

I keep seeing KUGA ST's and thinking that looks mean / fastish, but what they are are ST-Lines,  all the show and just as much go as the size of the engines fitted.

Big tail pipes though....

120,150 or 180 ps but you never know until you see one trying to get a shift on & still you never know.

Edited 4 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Just now, Offski said:

I keep seeing KUGA ST's and thinking that looks mean / fastish, but what they are are ST-Lines,  all the show and just as much go as the size of the engines fitted.

Big tail pipes though....

 

Think big tail pipes on the Focus as well, possibly going to have a look at the new focus on Friday to have a nosy.

 

I was watching a video comparing a Escort RS to a Focus RS and the tester basically said focus is a better and quicker car but at the end of the day the old Escort with the massive laggy turbo won him round as it just looked a lot meaner and did not rely on the computer trickery.

 

At the end of the day St Line FR trim line and now even vx line are a clever ploy to sell sportyish models to a younger generation.

 

Davy

Saturday around your way there was a 1973 Mk1 Escort AVO Mexico in Blue with White stripe.  Just beautiful.

Had a 1986 and a 1989 Golf GTi, brilliant cars. At the top or near the top of the hot hatches of their day. 112bhp, good handling, 33 mpg overall, what more could you want.

 

Wifes Fabia SE-L 110TSi obviously has 108 bhp. Good handling and it averaging over 50 mpg. Would not expect the 0-60 to be as quick (its heavier) but the in gear acceleration is way better.

 

Thing is the 1989 Golf with sod all kit cost just over £11000. I had to pay £400 for alloys. The Fabia which has brilliant kit cost me £12000 via a broker after discount, test drive bonus and PCP contribution (which I paid off and kept).

 

We have never had it so good. Good cars cost peanuts and for todays price equivalent of the 89 Golf you could get one very serious performance car.

Blame the baby boomers for getting older.  Unit costs come down to numbers sold and that’s been declining for some time cos people have a more diverse range to choose from...........and our backs aren’t what they were..........and emissions matter now .

I see the ad for the latest Camaro has a disclaimer for best acceleration - “except battery powered”.

?

6 hours ago, Offski said:

FR is a trim level & some are hotter than warm, whereas Seat Cupra or Cupra Leon is the Hotter Models.

The current SEAT Cupra has been unavailable to order for quite a while due to the new Cupra Leon coming out next year.

It really is difficult to spot the differences between the FR and Cupra cars though with only the slightly lower Cupra stance and the five 'holes' above the front numberplate being the main visual difference.

I'd call it 'subtle' in the styling but mental in the performance department when in Cupra mode.

 

 

 

Available if anyone wanted one though. Just not to order.

Debadged or even with the little badges left on they are 'stealth'. 

They’re more into these SUV/Crossover versions these days -

https://www.motorauthority.com/news/1112793_2019-volkswagen-t-roc-r-spy-shots

It really is just a trim level now.

 

Hot Hatches aren't really hot hatches any more. If you're looking at £40k for a proper hot hatch type car that's not really what these cars were.

Skoda are right out of the Warm or Hot Hatch game now.  The Motorsport Heritage and Success and small cars with some go is far behind other than R5 Fabia that 

the few can purchase.

 

Citigo's, or Fabia with 1.0 engines and 110ps or so and they can not even offer for sale new a 68 plate Octavia with 220, 230 or the heady 245 ps engines.

If you want something with a bit of power / torque all there is on offer are Crossover SUV's with a Diesel or a barge like Superb.

 

Eventually they will get back to their best selling models having their 'Sport trim and slightly hotter engines' available.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/455114-new-brochure-sept-2018-rationalised-range 

Edited 5 September, 20187 yr by Offski

aside from Octavia vRS we will soon have the Kodiaq vRS.

 

Shame the Monte Carlo Fabia could not have a bit more power as a wee nod to the motorsport heritage.

 

Davy

^^^ A Bi-turbo diesel SUV barge.  How very VW. 

 Skoda really do take the pith with the vRS badge, as they do with the Monte Carlo trim level.

12 hours ago, Offski said:

 Skoda really do take the pith with the vRS badge, as they do with the Monte Carlo trim level.

They don't care about a badge having meaning, all they care about is more sales.

 

Enthusiasts like us are aggrieved, but the average Joe doesn't care - and there are many more average Joes (and Joannes).

Overpriced , no room?/ineffective hatch and uncomfortable. Maybe a bit of fun?

 

Good option instead of a hot hatch like the above for the same dosh.

 

Bang for your buck demo worth a shout.imo

 

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808119393781?radius=1500&model=I30&onesearchad=Used&onesearchad=Nearly New&onesearchad=New&price-to=25000&aggregatedTrim=N Performance&postcode=sn104df&advertising-location=at_cars&price-from=20000&make=HYUNDAI&sort=sponsored&page=1

 

/ 

Edited 6 September, 20187 yr by vrskeith

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/britains-best-affordable-drivers-car-2018-part-one

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/features/britains-best-affordable-drivers-car-2018-part-two

 

Skoda luke warm future?

https://www.autoexpress.co.uk/skoda/rapid/104474/skoda-vision-rs-concept-previews-all-new-rapid-hatch

 

 

 

That will do. 

1.0TSI front wheels, electric motors rear wheels. 150ps or so, and not heavy and good brakes and suspension, 

surely the least you can expect if they do a vRS for into the next decade.

IMHO there are still ways to get your thrills with hot hatches, admittedly the breed is dying a very painful death it seems at the moment, but what I don't understand is why our VW, Audi and to some extent Seat friends are still playing the game fairly effectively, I know the styling isn't quite as lairy as before but any hot hatch is going to be silly priced in the 21'st century In my eyes the Polo GTI, Audi S1 and Ibiza Cupra R still made a good buy, even more so when approved used! however after having a quick browse on autotrader in the sub 20K bracket there is a brace of those three mentioned.... why we didn't get a wide mouthed 1.8TSI fabia VRs is beyond me...

Simples, because the guy in charge before resigning before being arrested said if you wanted a real vRS buy an Octavia.

Just now no Order Books open on Octavia vRS but lets not mention that, they will sort out the WLTP soon.

 

So they wanted Show and not much go,  Plastic Tat and Badges, Seats & Wheels and no Motorsport Success or History Reflected in the Model Range.

Use the Monte Carlo Name with 60/75 ps or 110ps in the Small Cars.

http://topgear.com/car-news/hot-hatch/skoda-will-kill-fabia-vrs 

At the moment, I still see the Fiesta ST as the 'spiritual successor' the the hot hatch moniker.  I've not driven or even seen the latest version but the previous version was an absolute hoot to drive and actually had a steering wheel which felt like it was connected to the wheels, unlike a lot of VAG cars that feel a little remote and woolly, even in hot hatch guise.   Fords always manage to get a cars setup just right IME.   

 

Fairly cheap to buy and run, practical around town and not totally uncomfortable on a motorway cruise.  Defo one of the best cars I've driven on a twisty B road. 

 

It's a shame Ford are contemplating shelving the Mondeo rather than fitting the 2.3 Ecoboost to it and producing an ST version.  Still one of the best cars to drive despite it being slightly worse than the previous two versions.  Anyway, the Mondeo is a different class of car, I've digressed....