Only been back in the VAG fold for 8 months , after a five year lay off (Ford) and I must say the usual teutonic reliablity and quality, perceived or otherwise, seems to be absent.

I am basically happy with my car, but still unsure about the rattle at start up and when ticking over when warm even though my dealer says it's ok.

The failures reported on the mk 2 tsi engines are quite alarming and my work colleague has just purchased a Audi A5 2.0tfsi which is burning 2 litres of oil every 300 miles.

The dealer is looking at it and has said it's a known problem.

My mk2 Golf gti 16v had 112k miles on it when I sold it, didn't burn a drop and was smooth and quiet.

So much for progress.

I  can;t see me buying another VAG product

Hum, the rattle at start up is a bit annoying!  Your work colleague with the A5 2.0TSFI should join the Audi Sport forum and follow the path of many others - seems to be basically a design mess up like the 1.4 Twinchargers! 

 

I for one hope that these 1.2TSI 16V engines are okay for quite a lot of miles if looked after.

Re the Audi.

Just go to the Octavia Mk2 Section of this forum.

The Pinned thread is at the top of the section of there on the 1.8 & 2.0 TSI Engine Failures and excessive oil use.

It is indeed a know problem and i hope the work colleague is rejecting the car unless there is going to be an engine rebuild or new engine fitted.

First there will have to be the Official Oil Consumption Test carried out, but then the Audi Dealership knows the result of that now, due to the 'Known Issue'.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, when you build lemons you should know you have after the first few thousand engine failures...

To deny it for years just shows up the dishonesty of the Corporation.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14-tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced 

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Skinnerroo, I understand your feelings on this. I'm an ex-tech and engine design and development engineer and I've been dismayed at VAG cars of late. I see some pretty poor design going into the engines. When I say poor design, it's stuff that just doesn't need to be done like that. And, as far as I can see, it's not being done for cost saving. It's just stupidy. For example, one of my pet hates is mechanicial engine noise. No engine needs to be noisy these days, yet they produced the 1.2TSI engine which is by far one of the most mechanically noisy engines they've made. Ok, lightweight pistons will rattle a bit at start up from cold but this should go away very very quickly and is totally exceptable. But excess noise, rumbling and knocking noise shows up during cold starts and sometimes when hot. Long term this may affect the engine in some way as parts are running without oil. It's not rocket science to prevent oil drainback which is what is largely causing the issue with noise on this engine. Then there are other issues with transmissions. Both of my brand new Fabia's had major issues with me rejecting my first Mk3 Fabia because the engine was knocking all the time, and then I had major issues with the new replacement Mk3. The issues with the cars were building and in the end I just got fed up with dealing with them. So now I own another brand which is completely free of issues and just goes as it should. It doesn't rattle or creak, and has an engine and gearbox that is completely and utterly quiet. So I do understand where you are coming from. I have given 12 years of my life to Skoda and feel betrayed to some extent. Definitely out of love with Skoda/VAG at the moment.

 

ps. none of this means that if you have a good TSI engine you should worry. It'll no doubt go pretty much forever if you service it right. But seems to be a lot of noisey TSI's out there now and it seems to get worse as the miles go on. 

I personally believe that VW have been caught with not just their pants down but the underwear as well with the whole Diesel cheating.
Because VW have the whole VAG range they are having to cut costs to recoup the huge fines that they had to pay plus are sighing a huge relief that the UK govt is too gutless to do what USA did around the buybacks and fines.
Plus its not just VAG that have the Ostrich mentality around issues they all do believing that if they deny it often enough it will go away it is one of the few industries where a company can rip their customers off with unfair terms and conditions.

I am sure I read that the FL Fabia does not have a diesel engine option - I wonder why ??  - Any theories  

 

LIkely there was no possibility to have low emissions without SCR (Adblue) with engines that were good for years then VW Group had to blame 'The wrong Coolant' 

for issues like Overheating and Water Pump Failures.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/426322-recall-on-diesel-cooling-issue.   Vorsprung Durch Technik with the German Corporation means just discontinue and people have short memories.

 

19 hours ago, Skinneroo said:

 

I am basically happy with my car, but still unsure about the rattle at start up and when ticking over when warm even though my dealer says it's ok.

 

 

There are many documented cam chain issues on earlier EA111 small tsi engines - resolved later in the development cycle (EA111 identified by oil filter at high level above alternator). PS a brief SLIGHT rattle on startup after not been run for some time is normal - the chain tensioner uses oil pressure.

 

Your Monte should be fitted with the later EA211 cam belt engine so there shouldn't be any cam chain rattle.

 

The tsi direct injection also can rattle somewhat (normal on any model) and this can vary depending on the temperature - this is a combination of the very high pressure fuel pump and how the fuel injection functions. They can also create strange noises depending on what is going on with the air-wash system.  All this is to maximise efficiency/ reduce emissions and light up the catalyst quickly after start-up - this is why the tsi's are pretty fuel efficient. The cars soundproofing should be enough to supress this rattle inside the car though.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by bigjohn

Sad though, Timing Chain & Tensioner issues resovled by an upgrade in 2011/12,  then a new engine design and no Timing chain and the new engines can still be noisy and some are having issues and Main Dealers can not even by clear on when the Service Schedule / Guidelines are on Belt Replacement.

*Then the 1.2 TSI was dropped and the 3 Cylinder 1.0 n/a , 1.0 TSI 3 cylinder takes over, and now the 1.0 TSI gets a GPF just a couple of years later.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Never get to the bottom of anything just discontinue the engines.

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Offski

2 hours ago, Offski said:

Sad though, Timing Chain & Tensioner issues resovled by an upgrade in 2011/12,  then a new engine design and no Timing chain and the new engines can still be noisy and some are having issues and Main Dealers can not even by clear on when the Service Schedule / Guidelines are on Belt Replacement.

*Then the 1.2 TSI was dropped and the 3 Cylinder 1.0 n/a , 1.0 TSI 3 cylinder takes over, and now the 1.0 TSI gets a GPF just a couple of years later.

Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Never get to the bottom of anything just discontinue the engines.

 

It's called progress I'm afraid. Having a 3 cylinder engine is "supposed" to be more efficient due to less friction and reversing masses. GPF's (sometimes called OPF or PPF) now required on most direct injection engines to achieve Euro 6 (d temp)  which I think comes into force this month. I think most manufacturers have now done this and re tested cars to WLTP.

 

As far as I know the Citigo does not have direct injection (it's port injection) and for now does not have a GPF

 

To avoid these technologies - I suppose we need to buy an old Ford Cortina.

 

In my Superb if you lift the bonnet up you can hear the direct injection - especially when very warm. Close the bonnet and doors though and the engine is silent. The only thing you can detect in the car is possibly a very slight whir from the rear from the fuel pump and the heater fan if it's on. Infact when I first got the car the stop/start confused me a few times - every now and again it doesn't turn the engine off (eg outside temperature or lower battery charge) , on dropping my clutch I didn't hear the starter motor and thought oh S*$% and went to manually start the engine which of course was still running!

 

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by bigjohn

Progress is that VW went from Air Cooled to Liquid Cooled Decades ago and still never managed to source good water pumps, chains tensioners or belts, or door seals.  All the research in the world, buying into other companies and still they are dragging behind other smaller manufacturer.

Progress is VW drop a 3 cylinder 1.4 diesel engine as other engine manufacturers go to 3 cylinder 1.5 diesel and petrol, & light hybrids.

 

Not very good at getting their engines and vehicles they have Tested & Type Approved, maybe if they were not losing their engineers due to be scared of prison time and being unable to leave the EU incase they are arrested they would be further ahead.

http://volkswagen.co.uk/owners/wltp 

 

VW Technolgy advancement required Defeat Devices which meant they got caught and all the Diesel Engine Plants for the Diesel Hybrids are now being changed to build 

Petrols with Hybrids or EV's.  But they were even cheating the petrol engine emissions so they are behind others technology.

VW emissions scandal_ Audi and Seat deny CO2 cover-up _ Autocar.mhtml

 

24V or 48V was to be the future, Supercharger / Turbo Electric Power with the Coolant Pumps etc, and then VW got into that and it turns out that ICE engines are the past not the future, but VW bought into that too late.

 

 

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Nor, in my experience based opinion, did VAG ever properly design or engineer their A/C systems, certainly the one the the Galaxy was waaaaaay undersized for the area of glazing/amount of interior volume.

Plus in the Octavia the minimum thermostatically controlled setting is 18C, which on a hot day is too warm, the only option is to instead suffer the unregulated Icy blast of "minimium", ehy on Earth could they not go down to 15 dec C.

The other odditity is the significently more than 1 deg difference between 19 and 20 deg Centi.

19 is too cold, and 20 is too hot.

And I am not that bloody odd or seriously hard to please.

marcus

P.S.

Seems the reason for the plethora of 48V systems is that anything over 50 V needs significently more insulation, and/or more expensive measures to  protect drivers and mechanics and Fire and Rescue staff from voltages in excess of 50 V.

Well, you know, progress comes at a price, an exwork friend has a friend that has a VW Passat as a company car, which is leased, "radio" stopped working recently and the car is just out of warranty, VW can easily fix this for a bit over £3000 - leasing company did not like that and suggested that he did without the radio even though that is not ideal, he pointed out that he has not only lost the radio function, but the sat nav function and the only way to check the vehicle systems etc, that does seem a bit expensive for fixing that, but that is where we are - ouch!

10 hours ago, Offski said:

Re the Audi.

Just go to the Octavia Mk2 Section of this forum.

The Pinned thread is at the top of the section of there on the 1.8 & 2.0 TSI Engine Failures and excessive oil use.

It is indeed a know problem and i hope the work colleague is rejecting the car unless there is going to be an engine rebuild or new engine fitted.

First there will have to be the Official Oil Consumption Test carried out, but then the Audi Dealership knows the result of that now, due to the 'Known Issue'.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, when you build lemons you should know you have after the first few thousand engine failures...

To deny it for years just shows up the dishonesty of the Corporation.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14-tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced 

 

I'd still stick with what the Audi Sport guys have been doing as that repeated verbatim annoying drone/speech should have more or quicker effect and cut out the "different engine design for longitudinal installations" possibility, these Teflon shouldered eels are trained to slither out most situations?

Maybe link what they are saying to do in that forum.

10 hours ago, Offski said:

Re the Audi.

Just go to the Octavia Mk2 Section of this forum.

The Pinned thread is at the top of the section of there on the 1.8 & 2.0 TSI Engine Failures and excessive oil use.

It is indeed a know problem and i hope the work colleague is rejecting the car unless there is going to be an engine rebuild or new engine fitted.

First there will have to be the Official Oil Consumption Test carried out, but then the Audi Dealership knows the result of that now, due to the 'Known Issue'.

Vorsprung Durch Technik, when you build lemons you should know you have after the first few thousand engine failures...

To deny it for years just shows up the dishonesty of the Corporation.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/266114-18tsi-and-20tsi-engine-failures 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/294051-cave-cthe-14-tsi-just-reply-please-if-you-have-had-an-engine-replaced 

 

My colleague is on his second oil consumption test. The first finished early. His conversation with the service dept. went something like this-

Colleague -I have done just over 300mls and it's 1-2mm from the bottom of the dipstick.

Audi-you have to do 620mls

C- But what if the engine grenades

A-You have to do 620mls. to fulfill Audi's criteria.

C- so, if my wife is traveling down the M1 to work tomorrow and the car suffers a catastrophic engine failure and she crashes, then what?

A- Bring it in.

 

The dealer then drained the oil and filled it to the specified amount and sent him on his way, for a second consumption test.

A week or so later, the conversation went the same, ending with Audi telling him that there was a definite problem and they are going to replace the pcv valve and engine breathers. Ho hum!

 

Big John, I am not , for one minute suggesting going back to Ford Cortinas is the answer.

I am going to take my car to the dealer again as the start up rattle lasts for a few seconds and the rattle/rumble when warm can be heard from the interior.

My point was , that my mk 2 gti was, compared to it's competitors at the time , a reliable and well engineered car. A citroen from that era would not compare, a modern one lures customers away from the vag fold with a quiet and superior product.

Don't get me wrong, I wouldn't want to go back to a mk 2 Golf. The advances in braking,infotainment , airbags, safety features, panel shut lines etc are all superior , but most of these are available to any manufacturer that wants to pay for them.

P.S. The paintwork was better on the mk2 golf.Oak green metallic and as flat as you could wish for. No hammerite orange peel.

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Skinneroo

EDIT, If a VW Group Approved Repairer is carrying out an Oil Consumption Test using the Owner to drive the car, (or even their employees)

and they seal the Oil Filler Cap and the Dipstich and say drive 621 miles and comeback, if the Low Oil Warning or Low Oil Pressure Light comes on they will need to arrange 

Audi, Skoda, VW, SEAT Assist or whoever to recover the car and provide a courtesy car.

'Simply Clever' / Corporate Responsibility, it is like DSG / S-stronics losing drive, it can kill people because they are ignorant.

 

 

300kms / 186 miles.

Some of us were saying that if VW Group / Audi said May Use 0.5l in 1,000km, the test should be 621 miles, or 1,242 miles then weigh the Oil again, & if the Low Oil Warning Light or Low Oil Pressure Light shows in 1,242 miles there can be no doubt it is a failure.

They were replacing Twincharger engines that used 0.3 litres or more in 1,000 km / 621 miles. No question of within tolerances.

People are in the UK below 3,500 ft above sea level, not in extreme weather, not Towing a Trailer Over a Alpine Mountain Pass in High Summer, 

Just going shopping, going to work, driving at UK NSL type speeds.

 

They have done a Oil Consumption Test not fit for purpose for a few years now.

See the error in the Invoice Report.  Any Trained Technician should be able to spot the mistake.   The Owner did get a new engine and never paid for the test.

Bottom ones how it used to be done.

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Offski

In the Skoda Technicians Oil Consumption Report can anyone spot the error made?

Just those that do not already know the answer from previous posts or knowledge of the invoice please say what the mistake was & why Skoda had to give in to a new engine.  Their Customer Services Technical Department Employees seemed to not n=notice the error when questioned on it.

As with everything in life, cars are becoming consumables.

 

Throw it away and finance a new one.

 

Mechanical engine noise doesn't need to be improved much more than a thicker bit of under-bonnet insulation, it won't be too long before the combustion engine is long gone.

 

 

2 hours ago, Offski said:

In the Skoda Technicians Oil Consumption Report can anyone spot the error made?

Just those that do not already know the answer from previous posts or knowledge of the invoice please say what the mistake was & why Skoda had to give in to a new engine.  Their Customer Services Technical Department Employees seemed to not n=notice the error when questioned on it.

 

Ok, I'll have a guess.

 

No engine number for a start.

 

They did a 300km test instead of 100km.

 

Details of the actual weighing procedure carried out is vague "as per Technical TPI” could mean anything, no TPI number. No photos of weighing procedure is included. Did they use the same drain recepient etc.

 

Finally they appeared to put in 3.6 litres of new oil but drained over 4.2 litres (if they measured at 15deg C), so was the exact 5 minute limit etc. and guide mark checks adhered to? 

 

And why are they quoting km in the UK. Surely the speedo is in miles.

 

Go on, ski, tell us what really was wrong

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by xman

Yes 5 star,  4.2 litres drained before the start of the test.  1 litre not being 1,000 grams but 856 according to the VW Group and 857 grams on my scales.

 

The 300 km test is what the TPI says to do.

VIN is on the Invoice OK,  Skoda / VW Change engines & the Engine Numbers difficult to see on a 1.4TSI 132-136kw Twincharger

and say the DVLA do not need told, the DVLA disagree.

 

The OP's Friend with the Audi oil user should ask for a copy of the TPI and the test results, Oil weights before and after.

 

Edited 9 September, 20187 yr by Offski

I'd hope that the OP's friend with the Audi has already made contact with Audi UK and has noted the name and function of his "handler".  Replacing the PCV valve seems to be a time delaying, lucky shot in the dark way of doing things, from reading postings on the 2.0TFSI engine woes, I've got the idea that any that are not needing rebuilt with new pistons conrods etc, are pure flukes - though these issues only cover a known time span as VW Group did sort things out eventually.

 

What I was suggesting is just that Skoda customers with a certain engine should group and attack Skoda UK directly, and same of SEAT customers attacking SEAT UK directly -  etc etc, as carrying tales from one brand to another even if we know the engine code is exactly the same, will always draw out the old disclaimer that "not true our engine is completely different" - these dealerships don't really know their products at all.

BBC Watchdog run with the Audi Excessive User story, some got new engines some just got the same old same old, within tolerances crap.

In North America there were Class Actions, new engines, cars bought back etc.  This is Europe no court is scaring the VW Group / Audi.

 

 

Ha!

The PCV bits for my S4 reside somewhere below the supercharger deep in the Vee, so that makes replacing that one, if I need to, a far bigger job!

Thanks Audi!

Oh, and one or two S4's have had oil usage issues, nothing from mine - yet!

 

Edit:- the main issue with the 2.0TFSI is related to piston design, and new design pistons need new design con rods - and drink oil far more than PCV issues alone cause.

Edited 10 September, 20187 yr by rum4mo

And the 1.4 TSI / TFSI 132-136 kw Twinchargers were Fundamental issues with Design, Manufacturing, Materials, Software & Consumables.

Borewash, wear, rings, scrapers, bores & valves burning out, on one cylinder, the cylinder that gets cooked, so  poor design of the Inlet Manifold,

the Oil Spray jets issues,later updated,  the Long Life Oil and the need for Super Unleaded, and VW Groups ignorance of the weak mixtures with the various maps.

Not able to communicate honestly with the vehicles owners, or accept they built lemons.  Fitted dodgy parts etc.

http://onlyrevo.com/support/sales/14tsi-twincharger-engine-issues 

Before these engines in 2009 there were the Timing Chain issues in the 1.4 TSI / TFSI's.  Vorsprung Durch Technik.  Never ever!

 

VW Group need to employ clever and smart people and not just yes men and women and computers or accountants.

And not ignore enthusiasts and fan boys and girls that buy and pay their own money to buy the cars.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/421365-links-to-lucifers-ultimate-guide-to-14-tsi-twincharger-engines 

Edited 10 September, 20187 yr by Offski

Yesterday (14/09/2018) I took the car in to the dealer to get a broken door edge protector replaced. It had fallen off when I opened the near rear side door. I fully expected that this would be replaced under warranty, the car being less than 12 months old. I was informed however that VAG had issued a notice, dating from August this year, saying these were no longer covered by warranty. They were blaming the customer for missuse.

My view of this that if you place something on a car that is easily broken through normal use of the car, it is bad engineering. The cost is small (£35) but the principle of VAG being able to void parts of the warranty as they please is unaceptable.