Hi all,

 

A phone in question from a superb owner  not me.

 

Two year service point, owner told/asked/suggested need to regas the aircon & service it for £120.  Something about it being a new gas, not like the old gas.

 

Is it needed?

 

 

Personally I'd be really wary Colin, just based on previous experience with my old mk2. I bought it second hand in the Feb and had first service done three months later at the same dealer I bought it from (I do stupid mileage and it was set to fixed). The dealer recommended a re-gas (and something else I can't remember) and I took them up on it. Three months later it went in for another service at the same dealer and they made the same recommendation. Cue the embarrassed silence when I explained they had supposedly done it just three months earlier. 

 

Re "new gas" - I've heard nothing about this, and unless it is a safety problem (in which case I'd expect a recall / TPI) then I'd recommend avoiding it. Interested to hear if others are getting this recommendation.

The new gas, introduced in 2015 and now compulsory in all new cars,   is called R1234yf. The old gas was called R134a. Its much expensive than the old R134a and at the moment only available at dealers so no cheap kwikfit regas for now.

 

The new gas has small molecular structure so in theory is more prone to leak, even though a leaking a/c is illegal, we know they all do, just by varying rates.

 

Even though regassing is usually done by an automated machine and process, there is still scope for **** ups and poor service, the main ones being the wrong quantity used, and the wrong or no lubricrant added.

 

R1234yf also allegedly has lower lubricity than R134a, so the additional PAG46 lubricant is doubly important.

 

Unfortunately apart from a pressure test, which only gives, at best, a rough estimate, its impossible to know how much gas is still in a system without removing it (with the machine) and weighing the quantity removed. So if it is regassed then check the quantity removed (and replaced) and you can estimate how leaky your system is.

 

When a/c systems start running low on gas the clues are less effective cooling, and gurgling noises coming from the evaporator in the dash, and droning noises from the compressor in the engine .

 

Btw you cannot use R134a in R1234yf systems and vice versa. Not only illegal, but incompatible and the fill connectors are different to stop it being attempted.

 

Edited 22 September, 20187 yr by xman

Sounds like a bit of upselling to me. I think I was offered something similar at my last servce. Aircon’s working fine so I’m not lashing out £100 for the hell of it.

I see this all the time having been a service advisor and a service team leader.  As a business they pay advisors on upsells, basic wage in the motor trade is awful, not just service but sales and techies. As a business they constantly pushing advisors to upsell everything.  But as a downside advisors arent checking the history of customers cars before even checking if its due xyz.  They shoot themselves in the foot when they ring a customer for an aircon service when its had one not long ago. (vw/skoda recommend every year for a ac service if i recall rightly) 

 

And techies are pushed to do more hours to make bonus as well which affects quality somewhat too.   

 

As a business and as a brand they are fighting each other as business they want to make more money where as the brand care about customer service and what they call "first time fix" dealers get shafted for return to workshop (this is when a car goes in for a fault eg eml on - fixes it, customer picks up and 2-3 days later eml is back on) 

 

I dont see it changing either unfortunately 

I had issues with my air-con after about 6 months. Hissing from the dash and sometimes not blowing at all, despite hearing the blower.

 

It was serviced after 10 months and I was told it needed regassing but they couldn’t do it that day, so would have to book it in for another visit.  I didn’t have time to keep booking it in, so left it for another time. 

 

I visited another dealer for a for a couple of issues, but they said the problem was the air quality sensor.  I would need to book it in again. As I was about to move house, I wasn’t able to do so. 

 

I’ve just had the second service done at yet another dealer and they said it wasn’t the air quality sensor, but it did need regassing @ 21 months. 

I had this when mine went in for it's 20k service. They told me it needed four new discs and pads (over £600 the lot), and then the aircon was initially £50, then they came back with £150. I knew the back discs were shot, but the fronts were (and still are!) fine. I told them to just do the rear discs. 

 

I'll probably get the air con done at next service, and I'll have the front discs looked at again when it goes to have it's winter tyres put on in mid November. 

 

Personally though, I think the regularity of it is *******s. My old man drives a 16 reg Toyota Auris Hybrid, so under the new gas, and it's just had it's 30k mile service, and they haven't suggested doing the air con (still RRG Group), and the air con works fine. So why on earth mine wants doing at 20k, on a 66 reg car, when it's flawlessly kept the car cool through a pretty hot summer, baffles me to be honest.

I think people need to use their own judegement on these kinda things. If your air con is still performing as it should then you can possibly leave it longer before it is serviced. (generally people who use their air con more often sees this) 

 

Air con shouldnt just be used in the usual hot few weeks we get in uk. The air con gas acts as a lubricant for the seals in all the pipes etc in the system, if aircon isnt used frequently they can dry out and become brittle. 

 

As for brakes this is something majority of us can look at see and feel, we can see if it has gone rusty or badly lipped by feeling the edge of the discs. Pads can be seen in the pad carrier to see how much lining is left. Of course if unsure we can ask for an opinion from dealers/garages 

 

As mentioned before dealers want advisors to upsell everything. As many of you will have seen, you get a evc (express visual check) sheet, which the technician has filled out. Anything in amber and red, the advisor will try to upsell. Imo only red stuff should be. And amber should just be to let customer aware.  But a lot of business want them to upsell amber aswell. Wrong imo.  

Exactly this. I could tell that my rear discs were shot as they were heavily scored. How it came about on a car with 20k on the clock at the time, I cant only assume grit in winter or something like that. It's just one of those costs you've got to suck up. With regards to the fronts, they came up as ambler, so I checked them when I got it back, and they were absolutely fine, and I asked the guys at the dealer that given the sort of driving I'm doing, I'm not particularly heavy on brakes, would they last until next service, and they said yes. 

 

Aircon performs fine, that'll probably be done next service just to keep them happy regarding warranty and such as well. The dealer did admit to be surprised themselves by the cost thing, as with it being such a new change, it was a bit unexpected, and it's only manifesting now as the first cars due are coming in for it. Apparently I wasn't the first customer to not exactly be overly pleased about it. 

The air con regas is a bit of a con, it does not suddenly leak out just prior to the second service

 

Whilst the new gas is finer (and thus will leak through poor seals more than the old r123 gas), it doesn't explain why the seals aren't up to the job. 

 

If car has a leaky seal, doing a re-gas without fixing the seal means the new batch of gas is just as likely to leak out, so it is a temporary sticking plaster solution

Conversely, if the system is not leaking then a re-gas will simply replace the correct quantity of good gas with the a new batch of same so is completely pointless

 

 

 

 

I know that I am tempting fate but I have never had to re-gas an A/C unit. My car is over 6 years old and the wife's little Yaris is 14 1/2 years old. My previous cars were no different.

 

 

Just spoke with the wife who has told me the engine management light has come on.

Edited 24 September, 20187 yr by Danny 57

I was told this was an advisory a my second service also, totally unnecessary and I will consider it if/when the a/c is not cold. For info, have also got a 13 year old Peugeot, never had a re-gas and still works perfectly.

Personally I always regas both mine at two years, I'm a believer in maintaining things.

 

But then I don't spend countless pounds on LED bulbs and other such crap that the car "doesn't need".

 

R134a has now gone up in price dramtically too within the last few months, on par with R1234YF now.

People need to remember it is an "advisory"  manufacturer states every 1 or 2 yrs so as a dealer franchise they are told to recommend this.   It is upto the customer whether they want it done or not.