11 hours ago, ScoutCJB said:

Im lucky that my BCM and Can Gateway both support Xenons.  Some don't and that means swapping these components out.  It's the AFS modules I'm struggling with.  Can't seem to get the correct ones.  A Golf MK7 module would work but needs re coding and I'm told this can't be done through VCDS.  The rest of it I've got my head round ... apart from the cost 

 

I had read your Xenon retro fit post , having had them on both my Oct 2 Scouts I'm really missing them on my Oct 3.  They just didn't seem to be a common option

 

I forgot to mention the BCM, it's the same situation on the MK2 - it would need replacing if it didn't support xenons...

 

Sounds like you're looking for the parameterisation/dataset file. You're correct that VCDS can't do it, instead you'll probably need VCP or ODIS.

 

ODIS (dealer tool) normally downloads them directly from VAG but assuming you can find the XML file used, it can be applied offline using a VAS5054a. Alternatively, VCP (3rd party) *might* include the correct dataset.

14 hours ago, PetrolDave said:

That's grounds for an appeal against the MOT failure as the MOT Guidelines clearly state that the self levelling and/or washers must work IF FITTED but are not required to be fitted to pass the MOT even with powerful HID bulbs - remember that passing the MOT is NOT the same as being compliant with Type Approval.

 

Yes But.

 

It depends how the tester interprets the guidelines. 

 

Not all cars that are factory fitted with HID's have washers. It depends on the output of the HID's. The Skoda Rapid has HID's but no washers for example.

So the "If fitted" guidelines are there for such vehicles.

 

There are then further guidelines for cars that are factory fitted with halogens having an aftermarket HID's should be rejected.

This doesn't clarify whether it's Xenon bulbs in reflector unit's or full Chinese lamps like these in the thread. If the tester believes aftermarket HID's are fitted that is grounds for rejection.

 

It's left quite general in the guidelines but if the MOT tester fails aftermarket HID's then I think you would be hard pressed to appeal that.

 

Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to
convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has
been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID
bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected. "

 

Lee

I expect anything that doesn't have the appropriate ECE marking for xenons on the lens should probably be rejected. I doubt the Chinese units have this, especially as they appear to be halogen projectors with HID kits fitted.

 

Just to point out, even if the headlight pass an MOT, that's not to say they are road legal...

32 minutes ago, logiclee said:

 

Yes But.

 

It depends how the tester interprets the guidelines. 

 

Not all cars that are factory fitted with HID's have washers. It depends on the output of the HID's. The Skoda Rapid has HID's but no washers for example.

So the "If fitted" guidelines are there for such vehicles.

 

There are then further guidelines for cars that are factory fitted with halogens having an aftermarket HID's should be rejected.

This doesn't clarify whether it's Xenon bulbs in reflector unit's or full Chinese lamps like these in the thread. If the tester believes aftermarket HID's are fitted that is grounds for rejection.

 

It's left quite general in the guidelines but if the MOT tester fails aftermarket HID's then I think you would be hard pressed to appeal that.

 

Some vehicles may be fitted with High Intensity Discharge (HID) headlamps. It is not permitted to
convert existing halogen headlamp units for use with HID bulbs. If it is clear that such a conversion has
been carried out, rather than replacing the entire unit with one designed and approved for use with HID
bulbs, the headlamp should be rejected. "

 

Lee

 

The wording of the bit in bold is interesting and broad, and I'm intrigued to see how is practically applied; "If it is clear such a conversion is carried out".

 

If a hid kit displays a decent beam pattern, is the correct colour etc, would this be passed on the basis it's not obvious? Would an MOT tester go to the effort, or be expected to take off the caps on the back of the headlamp or check the headlamp type approval markings against the light source? Some HID kits are blatantly cr*p and obvious, but it's also possible to have something that looks pretty legit.

 

I think your last point is spot on; would you really push and argue over a failure for a cheap hid kit in halogen units, when you know they aren't fully kosher in the first place. I know I wouldn't.

4 hours ago, ahenners said:

 

The wording of the bit in bold is interesting and broad, and I'm intrigued to see how is practically applied; "If it is clear such a conversion is carried out".

 

 

 

 

Yep and for the case of the units like those in this thread this bit is interesting. "one designed and approved for use with HID"

 

In this case what approval is required?

 

Lee

As I mentioned earlier the Alfa 159 my Dad owns has D2S xenons in proper xenon projectors from a BMW E46 in the original 159 light lenses. This leaves a perfect beam cut off, a full on OEM colour and look as they are all approved components for use with HID bulbs, they aren’t xenons shoved in halogen projector units but this year for the first time they failed the MoT. Tester was adamant they had to be returned to halogen and his interpretation of the rules was fairly strict all of a sudden and he argued (and is correct) that the 159 light units and BMW E46 projector combination isn’t type approved. We had to dig the old projectors and wiring loom out to get it through the test.

13 minutes ago, SashaGrace said:

 his interpretation of the rules was fairly strict all of a sudden and he argued (and is correct) that the 159 light units and BMW E46 projector combination isn’t type approved. 

 

The 2018 Guidance says conversions are to be rejected unless the units are approved. So yes he was correct.

 

The guidance is a bit vague on the "Approval" required though.

in this case I'd expect a clear DC marking along with the E marking on the glass. If it's not there or it's HC, then they are type-approved for halogen only. 

 

 - Bret

On 05/10/2018 at 09:46, ahenners said:

 

?

 

There are 3 OEM headlamp options on a pre-facelift MK3 Octavia. One is a halogen reflector unit, which would have a terrible beam pattern for a HID conversion. The other 2 are D3S Bi-Xenon with AFS. The only difference between the 2 Xenon units are whether it has the LED DRL or a halogen one, the dipped and main beam are Xenon.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "converting to run HID instead of Xenon" - HID = High Intensity Discharge and is what a Xenon Bulb is. It's the same thing.

 

Basicaly just fit them without the levelling or washers , I was under the impression some of the 2013 on where fitted with projectors as I have seen some but only had H7 bulbs , so that they could be converted to HIDs

4 hours ago, skippy41 said:

Basicaly just fit them without the levelling or washers , I was under the impression some of the 2013 on where fitted with projectors as I have seen some but only had H7 bulbs , so that they could be converted to HIDs

 

Are you sure they were h7 halogen projectors and not xenon/hid.

 

They still would not be road legal and should fail the mot.

On 07/10/2018 at 08:12, langers2k said:

 

Are you sure they were h7 halogen projectors and not xenon/hid.

 

They still would not be road legal and should fail the mot.

 

checked with the dealer , they only come on the SE L version and are H7 bulbs with projectors

Edited 12 October, 20187 yr by skippy41

4 hours ago, skippy41 said:

 

checked with the dealer , they only come on the SE L version and are H7 bulbs with projectors

 

All pre-facelift SE L have halogen reflectors. There are over 200 of them for sale on Autotrader and I can't see any with a Halogen Projector. See example below.

 

http://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201808219727525?atmobcid=soc3

6 hours ago, skippy41 said:

checked with the dealer , they only come on the SE L version and are H7 bulbs with projectors

 

I think there has been either a mistake or misunderstanding between the dealer and yourself. Have you got a part number for the MK3 halogen projectors?

 

From what I can see, the options on a MK3 Octavia in 2013 are:

- 5K2 941 017/018 (Halogen reflectors)

- 5K2 941 017/018 A (Xenon projectors)

- 5K2 941 017/018 B (Xenon projectors with LED DRL)

 

None of those fit the description.

 

Just to point out, the MK2 Octavia was still available in 2013 which did come with H7 projectors...

On 05/10/2018 at 11:49, langers2k said:

 

I forgot to mention the BCM, it's the same situation on the MK2 - it would need replacing if it didn't support xenons...

 

Sounds like you're looking for the parameterisation/dataset file. You're correct that VCDS can't do it, instead you'll probably need VCP or ODIS.

 

ODIS (dealer tool) normally downloads them directly from VAG but assuming you can find the XML file used, it can be applied offline using a VAS5054a. Alternatively, VCP (3rd party) *might* include the correct dataset.

 

I understand the majority of that 

 

Do you know where I can get the file from?  Im assuming the may differ between VAG and Skoda

8 minutes ago, ScoutCJB said:

Do you know where I can get the file from?  Im assuming the may differ between VAG and Skoda

 

I think it's a different file/dataset per model so for optimal behaviour, you'd ideally need one for an Octavia.

 

I don't think I've seen any online, as I say, the best way is to have a dealer do the update. There should be a guided function for it when a new module is installed.

These are the different options for genuine MkIII Octavia headlights.

 

The middle version appears to have xenon / bi-xenon dipped headlights, behind a projector, but a regular halogen main beam / DRL in front of a reflector.

 

Note that only the first (all halogen) and third option (bi-xenon & LED DRL) are available in the UK, the middle version was never fitted to an Octavia destined for the UK market...

 

 

The pre-FL MkII Octavia also had a headlight option that was never made available in the UK. All MkII pre-FL Octavia's here had projector dipped beam, halogen or xenon, but outside the UK there was a version of the headlight that was without the dipped beam projector, they were all 'reflector'...

 

 

Edited 14 October, 20187 yr by silver1011