Hey guys, new Felicia owner here. I recently became the proud owner of a 2000 Felicia 1.3 MPI Popular on 60,000 miles, and have had 2 weeks of uneventful pleasant driving. 

 

My car currently won’t start, just turns over very slowly. 

 

Last week I started to have the alternator light on problem which grew in brightness with high revs and the radio cut out when idling - as per the well documentented regulator issue. 

 

Within 3 days of short trips the battery would hardly move the starter motor, the battery voltage was low and the car wouldn’t start. So I presumed the alternator wasn’t charging the battery. I then fitted a new regulator and fully recharged the battery for 24 hours. The removed regulator brushes were very worn. 

 

The fully charged 40Ah battery is still unable to move the starter motor, taking a full 3 seconds to move a piston by the sounds of it. I then used a large battery from a defender, while it was running, with my battery fully disconnected, so just the defender battery to start the car. I then used a just charged 70Ah battery removed from another car

 

The starter motor again just turns over very very slowly, as slow as my little battery and the car doesn’t start. I tested the connection to the starter and it’s good, so I am thinking my start may be failing?

 

I have tried taking the starter off to have a look, I have removed the wiring and the two large bolts that secure it to the engine/clutch housing, but the starter won’t budge an inch. Pulling it moves the entire engine block/car and it won’t rotate at all.

 

Is there a guide to remove the starter motor? I have searched but can’t find any. Could I have fried something by overcharging perhaps?

 

Any help would be great - really liking the little car, and really need her for Christmas. 

 

Thanks,

 

Lewys 

Well, I'm thinking failed regulator, which is leading to the alternator over-charging the battery. And then frying pretty much anything or everything else I'm afraid. :(

10 hours ago, KenONeill said:

Well, I'm thinking failed regulator, which is leading to the alternator over-charging the battery. And then frying pretty much anything or everything else I'm afraid. :(

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

Oh no, that’s my worst fear, I really hope I haven’t fried everything. 

 

The electrics of the car seem to be working okay - no fuses have blown, the gauges are working, lights okay, radio okay when ignition is on etc. If that means anything. 

 

It just sounds like the starter can barely turn the engine over. And I can’t get the damn thing off to test it, it won’t budge at all. 

 

Are my symptoms typical of fried components from overcharging? I could try a bump start to see if the car runs once started. Not much room where it’s parked though. 

 

I’m not very experienced with electronics - but I have a multimeter now so can do some testing. 

 

 

 

Clump it with a mallet, rusted in. Needs a shock to get it to move.

@Lewys - OK then, first test - Check the charge across the new battery terminals; you're looking for a value around 12v.

 

Next, yes you need to hit the startercase with a mallet because it has frozen to the block.

@Lewys

Did the car start when you bought it?

@peter3197 @KenONeill Thanks for the info, looks like it’s simply stuck on there then, I’ll give it a good whack with a mallet this evening.

 

Will also check the voltage across the battery terminals. 

 

@RicardoM Yes, the car started and ran fine when I bought it, and had been running without issue for a fortnight before the alternator light came on with the usual related symptoms. 

 

Your main priority is indeed to unfreeze the starter and take it out to look at pinion and also at the gear on the flywheel. Look for abnormal wear, uneven wear, cracks, missing teeth, excessive rust. Look for the wear of carbon brushes. Clean and grease mechanical parts inside starter. Do a functional test of the starter on a bench before installing it on the car.

 

I'm not sure about hitting the starter with anything. I'd better jack the front right wheel, put it in 5th gear and spin the wheel back and forth by hand to loosen things.

How is that going to work given that the Bendix should be disengaged? I've also got a suspicion that this may be a bad solenoid, but the OP isn't describing it very well.

@RicardoM Thanks for the info - I’ll use the wheel moving method if that is safer/works then. 

 

@KenONeill Could I provide any additional info to help decide if it’s a solenoid issue? I am hearing the starter crank the engine, just very very slowly. I can hear one revolution of ether the crankshaft or a piston, which takes about 4 seconds. It doesn’t sound like it gains any momentum if I keep cranking for longer. 

 

When the battery was flat, I could hear the click of the fuel pump relay in the cabin engage when I turned the ignition on, followed by a loud click in the engine bay when I tried to start the car - which I think could have been the starter solenoid? The starter would not crank the engine at all until I charged the battery and used other charged batteries as per my first post. 

 

Hope that helps 

Edited 20 December, 20187 yr by Lewys

@Lewys - Well, I now think the solenoid itself is healthy, but the starter motor is worn out or at least needs re-bushing.

Lewys were do you live is it the UK ? and what Skoda model and year do you have ? if you are close I maybe abul to help

8 hours ago, KenONeill said:

How is that going to work given that the Bendix should be disengaged?

It should but given the fact the starter can't be removed I suspect it stays engaged and locked to the gear on the flywheel.

OK cheers. In which case a swift tap on the starter motor shaft is a long-standing remedy.

23 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

In which case a swift tap on the starter motor shaft is a long-standing remedy.

I can't see how could anyone tap on the shaft of a sealed starter motor.

@RicardoM :-

1. Never seen a design like that before!
2. The point is the percussive shock to the Bendix, so if that design has a thrust washer it would still work.

15 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Never seen a design like that before!

That is why I said repeatedly you should stop giving GENERIC CAR answers to SPECIFIC FELICIA issues. You may cause people financial losses in parts and wasted time.

9 hours ago, RicardoM said:

It should but given the fact the starter can't be removed I suspect it stays engaged and locked to the gear on the flywheel.

It can't be locked to the flywheel, if it was nothing would move. Your wheel method will do no more than turn the starter motor which is exactly what was happening when the starter was used. The removal problem is almost certainly a corrosion issue between the stater motor and the engine, and as much as you don't like it, a downwards sharp tap on the rear of the starter motor will probably shift it.

On 21/12/2018 at 09:15, peter3197 said:

It can't be locked to the flywheel, if it was nothing would move. Your wheel method will do no more than turn the starter motor which is exactly what was happening when the starter was used. The removal problem is almost certainly a corrosion issue between the stater motor and the engine, and as much as you don't like it, a downwards sharp tap on the rear of the starter motor will probably shift it.

 

On 21/12/2018 at 02:07, RicardoM said:

That is why I said repeatedly you should stop giving GENERIC CAR answers to SPECIFIC FELICIA issues. You may cause people financial losses in parts and wasted time.

Peter, that can't possibly be right because it's a generic answer that applies to any car with an electric starter motor and Ricardo says that "Felicias are different".  

9 minutes ago, KenONeill said:

Peter, that can't possibly be right because it's a generic answer that applies to any car with an electric starter motor and Ricardo says that "Felicias are different".  

Ken, don't try to be a wise guy putting words in my mouth. Only two posts above you have acknowledged your lack of knowledge on the starter motor for Felicia. Do you want me to quote from many other pearls of wisdom you have expressed over the years in this section about Felicia? Because I can, although I'm afraid that wouldn't bother you and you'll continue putting people chase nonexistent parts or perform bad repair operations.

50 minutes ago, peter3197 said:

It can't be locked to the flywheel, if it was nothing would move.

Peter, you know that things aren't always black or white, do you? As in totally locked and totally free. A slight gear teeth alignment issue developed over the years could result in the pinion of the starter ending captive to the flywheel thus making rotation possible but difficult. While corrosion between the starter flange and the engine block is a remote possibility, there are better methods to get it loose than looking for a sledgehammer. After all, it is the OP that explained he jerked hard on the starter and the whole engine moved. In case I'd know I will not reuse the starter, I would bang it too. Meanwhile let's give the OP a break to find out what is all about.

Just whack it after you have unbolteded  it and then just buy an new stater motor after ensuring the freewheel is fine

I don't get why we are making such huge arguments over so minor issues

We should be focused on how to get the stater off the engine rather than arguing over the cause of the jam

 

cool down guys

9 hours ago, KenONeill said:

@RicardoM :-

1. Never seen a design like that before!
2. The point is the percussive shock to the Bendix, so if that design has a thrust washer it would still work.

I have not owned a car with an inertia bendix starter motor for at least 30 years, pre-engaged starters were introduced in the early 70's and pretty much a universal fitment from the mid to late 70's

Hello everyone, I hope you've all had a good Christmas break. 

 

Thank you all for your input and trying to help.

 

Took me a while to get round to working on the car, but I've just now successfully removed the starter motor without much trouble.

 

I first followed your advice @RicardoM and rotated the right wheel while in gear and jacked - I heard a clunk/click from the engine bay when doing this. The starter was then much easier to remove, and had even moved apart from the engine a few mm (the bolt nuts were off from last week). A few tugs and choice words of encouragement and I got it off. The casing is very corroded and the arm/shaft with the pinion gear moves in and out with barely any effort, the teeth look undamaged and the flywheel teeth seem okay.

 

I had ordered a refurbished starter last week, which I've fitted without a problem. 

 

The car then started up first time, the starter sounded healthy and the car runs okay.

 

 

Now that I've been able to start the car, I've found that my alternator light is still on after installing a new voltage regulator. It is barely lit at idle and then increases in brightness with revs, as before.

 

Voltage readings are as follows:

 

Off:               12.5 V

Idle:              13.4 V

2,000 RPM:  13.7 V

5,000 RPM:  13.9 V

 

Could this mean my alternator is under-charging the battery, rather than overcharging? 

 

Thank again all for the help.

 

Lewys

 

 

 

@Lewys - Those readings are high engine off; a single cell in a lead-acid accumulator holds just under 2v, so 11.8 or 11.9 tends to be typical, and low at 2_000+.

 

Depending on previous usage patterns, 60_000 miles may not be too low for worn brushes and/or commutator/slip rings.