Strut top nut sockets

[smithysmoo]

1 minute ago, Wino said:

Yep. Most so-called spline bits are actually triple-square anyway.

Great should be ok for that then...

[Breezy_Pete]

Spline bits have 60 degree points, triple square are 90.

So a triple square bit may not fit a true spline screw; but spline should do both.

Pretty sure the head of this bolt is triple-square. 

Edited 6 January, 2019 by Wino

[rum4mo]

7 hours ago, smithysmoo said:

Could get a vortex go thru whole set for not much more but I wouldn't be able to torque to correct spec then.

 

I bought a Vortex set a while ago, really because I thought it would come in handy at some point, I had completed my first Polo 9N spring change by the time I bought it, but it came in very handy for the next time I needed to work on front suspensions and lots of other jobs - the more tools the better?  I have finally bought a serpentine belt replacement set of tools, that should make the replacing of my supercharger belt and auxiliary belts a lot easier, when the weather gets warmer!

[rum4mo]

20 minutes ago, smithysmoo said:

I looked up trisquare and it came back with spline so I'm guessing I should be ok for that.

 

Good, and yes my guessing that it is M16 was wrong, it is as stated M14, the front hub nut needs a deepish thinnish walled 36mm bihex socket, there is a Draper Impact quality socket that fits the bill.

 

Multi Spline  XZN  1/2”D  size M14  60mm Long  BGS 4364   £7.23 Motorsport-Tools - is what, where and how much the spine bit I bought, a few years ago, for reference.

 

Edit:- that spline bit has dropped in price since I bought it!

Edited 6 January, 2019 by rum4mo

[smithysmoo]

11 hours ago, Wino said:

Spline bits have 60 degree points, triple square are 90.

So a triple square bit may not fit a true spline screw; but spline should do both.

Pretty sure the head of this bolt is triple-square. 

Great

[smithysmoo]

11 hours ago, rum4mo said:

 

I bought a Vortex set a while ago, really because I thought it would come in handy at some point, I had completed my first Polo 9N spring change by the time I bought it, but it came in very handy for the next time I needed to work on front suspensions and lots of other jobs - the more tools the better?  I have finally bought a serpentine belt replacement set of tools, that should make the replacing of my supercharger belt and auxiliary belts a lot easier, when the weather gets warmer!

Yes I love more tools I must admit  If I could think of more uses for the vortex I'd get it but I've had most other jobs covered with what I have.

[smithysmoo]

11 hours ago, rum4mo said:

 

Good, and yes my guessing that it is M16 was wrong, it is as stated M14, the front hub nut needs a deepish thinnish walled 36mm bihex socket, there is a Draper Impact quality socket that fits the bill.

 

Multi Spline  XZN  1/2”D  size M14  60mm Long  BGS 4364   £7.23 Motorsport-Tools - is what, where and how much the spine bit I bought, a few years ago, for reference.

 

Edit:- that spline bit has dropped in price since I bought it!

Cheers..I will check my spline kit...I've had the hub off on the Mrs's Lupo and that was a big socket so hopefully the same I will check.

[smithysmoo]

13 hours ago, rum4mo said:

 

Good, and yes my guessing that it is M16 was wrong, it is as stated M14, the front hub nut needs a deepish thinnish walled 36mm bihex socket, there is a Draper Impact quality socket that fits the bill.

 

Multi Spline  XZN  1/2”D  size M14  60mm Long  BGS 4364   £7.23 Motorsport-Tools - is what, where and how much the spine bit I bought, a few years ago, for reference.

 

Edit:- that spline bit has dropped in price since I bought it!

Arrghh Lupo one i have is 32mm...Just read a post and pics about removal and they don't seem to remove the hub nut do you need to take the hub off as it didn't seem to be needed?? Cheers 

[sepulchrave]

20 minutes ago, smithysmoo said:

Arrghh Lupo one i have is 32mm...Just read a post and pics about removal and they don't seem to remove the hub nut do you need to take the hub off as it didn't seem to be needed?? Cheers 

 

How will you change the strut without removing the hub carrier from the wishbone and the driveshaft?

[smithysmoo]

9 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

How will you change the strut without removing the hub carrier from the wishbone and the driveshaft?

Ok just going on what directions I found online and they didn't seem to mention it. But I'll take your word for it. Been a while since I did suspension and not done it on a fabia yet. 

 

Just checked my allen keys and seems my strut top is a 6mm allen key which I have in the box so thats a bonus.

[rum4mo]

Unfortunately, on the RHS, the driveshaft will bottom out on the wishbone and stop you getting enough room (vertically) to remove the strut from the socket in the hub carrier.

 

Unless as you have coil overs that you can unwind the spring seat far enough to achieve that, and you keep on using coil overs, I've never had coil overs.

[smithysmoo]

1 minute ago, rum4mo said:

Unfortunately, on the RHS, the driveshaft will bottom out on the wishbone and stop you getting enough room (vertically) to remove the strut from the socket in the hub carrier.

 

Unless as you have coil overs that you can unwind the spring seat far enough to achieve that, and you keep on using coil overs, I've never had coil overs.

So I'm guessing the information I read was for the LHS which I'm guessing then you have enough room to get it out without removing the extras and only need to do it for the one side.

 

Yes its on coilovers at the moment although thread to wind are generally a pain in the arse to wind while under lots of load. Although sits quite low so maybe have enough room depends how much lea way there is I guess.

[rum4mo]

Yes working on the LHS strut is a walk in the park after wrestling with the RHS one, well relatively speaking - also meant that I had a spare hub nut that was handy when I worked on a late 2009 Ibiza quite a few years later!

 

Edit:- it is due to the differing lengths of the drive shafts RHS to LHS - LHS is closest to the final drive area of the transmission so the shaft is shorter and the wishbone pivot point is almost at the same point, which makes life easier.

Edited 7 January, 2019 by rum4mo

[smithysmoo]

Just now, rum4mo said:

Yes working on the LHS strut is a walk in the park after wrestling with the RHS one, well relatively speaking - also meant that I had a spare hub nut that was handy when I worked on a late 2009 Ibiza quite a few years later!

Cheers for the info mate...I'll pick up a 36mm socket when I'm next in halfords...I'm guessing when we are talking about LHS we are talking passenger side just so I know which one needs hub off. Cheers

[rum4mo]

Yes, I was following VW Group way of describing the car and as this is an international forum it works better using that way of describing things, I went and edited my last posting if it makes any difference!

 

Socket, now the socket for the hub nut needs to be bi-hex as the hub nut is a 12 pointed affair, also as it is recessed slightly, the wall thickness of the deep socket is important, luckily for me I just ended up buying an impact quality Draper deep socket at  a tool stall at a market - and it was the right thickness, some people have not been so lucky, that is why I am mentioning that point. As always, just in case you are not aware, these hub nuts have a spring tang that should shear off when you remove it meaning you need to replace that hub nut.

[smithysmoo]

4 minutes ago, rum4mo said:

Yes, I was following VW Group way of describing the car and as this is an international forum it works better using that way of describing things, I went and edited my last posting if it makes any difference!

 

Socket, now the socket for the hub nut needs to be bi-hex as the hub nut is a 12 pointed affair, also as it is recessed slightly, the wall thickness of the deep socket is important, luckily for me I just ended up buying an impact quality Draper deep socket at  a tool stall at a market - and it was the right thickness, some people have not been so lucky, that is why I am mentioning that point. As always, just in case you are not aware, these hub nuts have a spring tang that should shear off when you remove it meaning you need to replace that hub nut.

Cool thanks....yes I guessed it needed to be a 12 pointer thats like the 32mm one I have for the Lupo as well...Halfords one seemed to fit the bill for this so hopefully be ok. But I will check and also get new hub nuts from the stealer before I attempt...

[rum4mo]

I was wrong about it being a Draper socket, it is a Laser Tools socket and its OD is just on or just under 51mm and that fits into the hub okay.

[smithysmoo]

Just now, rum4mo said:

I was wrong about it being a Draper socket, it is a Laser Tools socket and its OD is just on or just under 51mm and that fits into the hub okay.

Your a star mate...Thanks for all the help

[smithysmoo]

Just thinking is there not enough access to get some spring compressors in there to get enough compression so that then you can get it out of the mount without going to the hassle of disconnecting the hub. Obviously without seeing it I don't know how far are it is when the driveshaft bottoms out.

[sepulchrave]

1 hour ago, smithysmoo said:

Ok just going on what directions I found online and they didn't seem to mention it. But I'll take your word for it. Been a while since I did suspension and not done it on a fabia yet. 

 

Just checked my allen keys and seems my strut top is a 6mm allen key which I have in the box so thats a bonus.

 

You'll find it much quicker and easier to simply remove the entire strut assembly complete with hub carrier, since you're at the tool collection stage.

You only have to split the track rod end, undo the three bolts holding the bottom ball joint, undo the hub nut and remove the brake caliper and hang it to one side, don't forget the ABS sensor wire. About ten minutes work to make the job easy.

Edited 7 January, 2019 by sepulchrave

[smithysmoo]

3 minutes ago, sepulchrave said:

 

You'll find it much quicker and easier to simply remove the entire strut assembly complete with hub carrier, since you're at the tool collection stage 

Ok cheers mate just an idea.

[sepulchrave]

1 minute ago, smithysmoo said:

Ok cheers mate just an idea.

 

One of the most common errors made by mechanics is not doing enough disassembly to make a job easier, doing slightly too much is always better than doing slightly too little, a stitch in time...

[smithysmoo]

1 minute ago, sepulchrave said:

 

One of the most common errors made by mechanics is not doing enough disassembly to make a job easier, doing slightly too much is always better than doing slightly too little, a stitch in time...

Fair enough...like I say was just an idea...

[Breezy_Pete]

1 hour ago, smithysmoo said:

Just thinking is there not enough access to get some spring compressors in there

No, very little room around there.

Taking the bearing carrier off definitely makes the strut replacement loads easier, but there are some things that can complicate matters even that way.

 

The track rod end from the factory seems to have a 5.5mm Allen socket in the top of the stud, 5mm will just slip round, and if you bash a 6mm into there it may well split the top of the stud; so tread carefully there. Wire brush the exposed threads to hell and back, then penetrating oil them, then do something else for a few hours, come back and oil again, then make sure your 5.5mm Allen key bit bottoms out in the recess before trying to remove the nut.

 

The 3 bolts that hold the ball joint to the wishbone tend to rust at the end of the threads, and so jam up on the way out of the little '3 nuts on a plate' thing, meaning that you need really spares of both of those bits before you start. Those bolts are supposed to be replaced anyway, 20Nm + 90° turn when tightening. Someone on here recommended just undoing the single nut that holds the BJ to the bearing carrier,  but I've not tried it myself so don't know how easy/hard it is to get that nut off and pop the taper.

[smithysmoo]

27 minutes ago, Wino said:

No, very little room around there.

Taking the bearing carrier off definitely makes the strut replacement loads easier, but there are some things that can complicate matters even that way.

 

The track rod end from the factory seems to have a 5.5mm Allen socket in the top of the stud, 5mm will just slip round, and if you bash a 6mm into there it may well split the top of the stud; so tread carefully there. Wire brush the exposed threads to hell and back, then penetrating oil them, then do something else for a few hours, come back and oil again, then make sure your 5.5mm Allen key bit bottoms out in the recess before trying to remove the nut.

 

The 3 bolts that hold the ball joint to the wishbone tend to rust at the end of the threads, and so jam up on the way out of the little '3 nuts on a plate' thing, meaning that you need really spares of both of those bits before you start. Those bolts are supposed to be replaced anyway, 20Nm + 90° turn when tightening. Someone on here recommended just undoing the single nut that holds the BJ to the bearing carrier,  but I've not tried it myself so don't know how easy/hard it is to get that nut off and pop the taper.

Ok mate I will make sure there is a 5.5mm in the box...I know the plate you are talking about I think it was the same on the polo. Sounds like a ball ache....