“Tappet” noise on Tsi

[Lozb]

Hi there

 

My 12 plate VRS TSI dsg has developed a new tapping noise in the last month or so.  It sounds like a dodgy tappet but would value your thoughts:

 

I had a similar noise about a year ago and thanks to advice on this forum diagnosed a N80 Purge valve which I replaced and solved the issue.

 

A year later (and another 10k miles) and a tapping noise is back.  It’s definitely not the N80 valve as I’ve tried disconnecting the power supply and tapping is still there. It’s easily audible from inside the car when gently tickling the throttle at 30 mph or so.  Can’t hear it when engine is idling in neutral or when looking under the bonnet..  Also it goes away when I press the accelerator and put the engine under a bit of load load.  It’s also not effected by engine oil temp....seems the same on cold start as when warm.

 

Its also a bit intermittent.  It came in about a month ago, got louder, then disappeared for a week or so, now it’s back in anger.

 

Any ideas? Injector? HPFP? Stuck Tappet?

 

Im due a 10k oil change next week so will try some flushing oil first to see if that helps but any other suggestions appreciated.

 

Probably not relevant but I’m running a stage 1 shark remap and always use V Power.

 

thanks

 

 

[kirkynut]

I don't know what type of tappets they use, hydraulic or bucket shims.

 

If hydraulic, one could be stuck. In which case a flush and fresh oil might free it up.

 

I'm not happy with 10k mile oil changes. It's far too long. I'm a 6k mile oil changing man with normal fully synthetic, not long life.

 

Kirkynut 

[Lozb]

Ok, done flush and oil change now and no improvement. Not sure where to go next?

[xman]

High pressure fuel pump cam follower?

Edited 13 February, 2019 by xman

[bigjohn]

Cold one of these cheap stethoscopes help to narrow down the noise - 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silverline-154006-Mechanics-Stethoscope-320/dp/B001C0RYPG

 

I have one like it and use it for all sorts of things - just recently identifying a dodgy engine mount

 

[Stu vRS]

Hi,

 

The tapping noise I think is fairly normal to the TSI engines, mine has done it for as long as I can remember.

 

You are probably hearing the injectors, they are mega noisy for some reason, even more pronounced when cruising along at about 30mph like you suggested.

 

There is also a cycle, think it is something to do with the evap system that causes intermittent tapping noises every so often.

 

I wouldn't worry.

Edited 15 February, 2019 by Stu vRS

[Babs]

Mine's noisy too. I think the lack of under bonnet sound deadening makes it worse. Certain speeds and throttle loads it borders on "diesely" :/

[TheClient]

I don't really think mine is particularly noisey. Except when the purge valve starts clicking. I've never bothered fixing yet, it did that from, when I bought it 3 years ago at about 33k. now at 56k. 

 

You can buy the original bonnet insulation. I have but it was mainly for another purpose.  The thing I was trying to fix was a rattle, which turned out to be the wastegate connection. It didn't make any difference to that...

[karimcurrimbhoy]

I am trying to do the same. I hope it works

 

I have just changed the valves and seals in my car. This sound has come after finishing the work and taking a test drive. I never had a problem earlier ??

[karimcurrimbhoy]

Just now, karimcurrimbhoy said:

I am trying to do the same. I hope it works. That is flushing the tappets with oil and refixing.

 

I have just changed the valves and seals in my car. This sound has come after finishing the work and taking a test drive. I never had a problem earlier ??

 

[brown_d9]

Slight thread hijack here, but is the N80 purge valve not meant to tick then? Mine has for as long as I can remember, just presumed it was meant to!

 

My TSI is generally a noisy engine, has been since it was installed new (post tensioner failure )

[karimcurrimbhoy]

Thanks. Will keep this in mind. Can't wait to drive the car again. It's been away for nearly three months in the garage. Will take a call on Monday after flushing the tappets again👍

[TheClient]

On 12/06/2020 at 10:14, brown_d9 said:

Slight thread hijack here, but is the N80 purge valve not meant to tick then? Mine has for as long as I can remember, just presumed it was meant to!

 

My TSI is generally a noisy engine, has been since it was installed new (post tensioner failure )

The solenoid activation will produce a click. It is just very prominent as it cyles on and off around idle on a lot of EA888 engines mine included.  I've read that replacement usually result in a less noticeable sound but for how long I don't know as I hear the same feature on a lot of cars.

[brown_d9]

1 hour ago, TheClient said:

The solenoid activation will produce a click. It is just very prominent as it cyles on and off around idle on a lot of EA888 engines mine included.  I've read that replacement usually result in a less noticeable sound but for how long I don't know as I hear the same feature on a lot of cars.

Ok thanks, will go with it ain’t broke so don’t fix it for now, live with the annoying tick!

[karimcurrimbhoy]

since the oil flushing did not work i have been advise by my garage to change the set of tappets and the timing chain since the car has done around 85,000 kms and the fact that we have just changed the values and stem seals due to three valves being burned and oil was leaking into the combustion chamber resulting in loss of power and oil consumption

[TheClient]

17 hours ago, karimcurrimbhoy said:

since the oil flushing did not work i have been advise by my garage to change the set of tappets and the timing chain since the car has done around 85,000 kms and the fact that we have just changed the values and stem seals due to three valves being burned and oil was leaking into the combustion chamber resulting in loss of power and oil consumption

Do you know about the EA888 1.8Tsi piston ring problems?  Are you sure that hasn't caused the oil consumption and burnt valves?  Don't spend more money until you know that is not a problem. If the timing chain and tensioner are pre mid 2012 then that is a ticking time bomb as well.

 

Unfortunately, although the mark 2 is a good car, and the engine is a good unit when operating properly there were serious design flaws in the execution of the build and it is a complicated engine to work on so mechanics have to know what they are doing.

 

Or else it will not be fixed properly or it will cost lost of money or even worse both of those!!

[karimcurrimbhoy]

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will discuss this with my garage. The car is a 2010 model so I guess the timing chain change is valid. I don't want a ticking time bomb especially since I use the car mainly for long distance travelling holidays.

[TheClient]

5 hours ago, karimcurrimbhoy said:

Thank you for your detailed reply. I will discuss this with my garage. The car is a 2010 model so I guess the timing chain change is valid. I don't want a ticking time bomb especially since I use the car mainly for long distance travelling holidays.

How much oil was it using before undertaking the valve repairs.  how many Litres per 1000km?

[karimcurrimbhoy]

I think the oil sump holds around 6 litres . In normal city driving the dip stick wud show reduction of nearly half its level in just 100 to 200 kms travel. I always carried 5 litres of oil.

 

When I drove long distance I would have to top up at least a litre or two once I completed about 300 to 400 kms. The oil light wud come on. The funny thing is I wud never experience drop in power or performance and no smoking from the exhaust. 

 

The first diagnosis was a bad turbo. We checked and the turbo was spraying oil. This was changed. The oil consumption did not stop. That's when we opened the head to check because suddenly i started  experiencing a drop in compression in one of the cylinders and then a bit of engine missing started. Now I have replaced the valves, the stem seals, the set of hydraulic tappets, 

[karimcurrimbhoy]

Sorry the thread broke soni am continuing with my reply. 

 

I also changed the electronic water pump/ansilary pump. The timing chain tensioner seems a bit jamed. This has been changed and now under a test drive The engine is running smooth now and there is no unusual tappet sound. I am taking it for a long drive tmrw and then decide weather I shud also change the chain or use it as is

[TheClient]

2 hours ago, karimcurrimbhoy said:

Sorry the thread broke soni am continuing with my reply. 

 

I also changed the electronic water pump/ansilary pump. The timing chain tensioner seems a bit jamed. This has been changed and now under a test drive The engine is running smooth now and there is no unusual tappet sound. I am taking it for a long drive tmrw and then decide weather I shud also change the chain or use it as is

Oh dear. I'm sorry but by the sounds of that level of usage the turbo was either totally kaput or there is the usual problem on 1.8Tsi ea888 on your car. The scraper rings get blocked due to their design and carbon blocks the return holes.  The scraper rings become completely non functional. Compression is still good but the engine consumes a lot of oil and is subject to a lot of carbon fouling and build up. Hot spots in compustion chamber, carbon fouling Esp valves, valve seats. top of pistons.

 

1 litre in 300 or 400km. Let's call it 3 litres in 1000km is a lot of oil. A real lot of oil, it is going somewhere as well as the by products of combustion!  Let's say your car averages 7 litres fuel per 1000 km.  That is an oil to petrol ratio of 25:1. That is two stroke terriotory and the engine will just not cope with that consumption full stop.  Valve stem seals would be extremely unlikely to allow that much oil to be consumed. 

 

If that consumption has not changed now, significantly, your scraper rings are knackered and the fix is to insert a new engine or replace conrods, pistions, rings with updated parts, which are improved but not a totally fail safe solution.

 

Lots of discussion in the engine failures section sticky at the top of the threads.

 

 

 

[karimcurrimbhoy]

Noted. Thanks. I love the drive of this car and have enjoyed it for 8 years now. If the oil consumption issue does not change I will have to just get rid of it and look for another car. All depends on the test drive today. Keeping my fingers crossed 🤞