Replace the car or repair it?....

[MereKat]

I'm a bit stuck on what to do with this...56' Elegance Estate PD105 with 170k.

 

Had this car for 5 years, done 65k in it and so far spent around £800 on it. I didn't pay for the car, it was a gift. I do get attached to my car's, be it this or my old 1991 fiesta...it's my car...

 

Now....MOT calls for a lower arm and an ARB link dust cover to pass as well as having a few advisories. If that was all it needed then it would be going through and being kept.... however... I'm positive the turbo is shot (may replace with a refurbished unit) and now the clutch has just about had it which makes it just about unusable (very harsh vibrating under any load while in 3rd-5th gear. Disappears with clutch pressed, may be replaced with an SMF Conversion).

 

But, at what point to you decide that the repair costs outweigh replacing the car? Even though replacing these will likely give another few years of fairly cheap motoring....I'm guessing the parts and labour for what I think it needs is going to be £1-1.2k and for that kind of money I could definitely replace the car, but for one that's going to be any better in a year's time?....

[gav_is_con]

Sounds like you have a few issues all happen at once. These cars do go on for miles. You need to decide if you want to spend the money to keep it running. Hopefully serve you well for many more years. 

[J.R.]

I bought an identical vehicle same age last year, much lower mileage but needing some work for the MOT, that didnt bother me as I had to have it tested here in France anyway, I paid £750 and dont think that I could have found the same vehicle without faults (anything of that age will have something) for less than £1500, probably £2K, not really up on UK prices, would have been a lot more in France.

 

I only needed to spend £30 to get it running and tested in France but have since spent a few hundred replacing things like discs and pads all round, new rear springs etc etc all of which would have gone on for years scraping through the test.

 

Like you once I appreciate a vehicle I dont mind spending money on it to make it as good as I can, I would rather drive the beste example than the cheapest.

 

In your shoes I would look around and find the best car available for the money that you could spend on yours and then make the decision, yours is a known quantity and probably a bettter bet than spending the same amount on a seemingly good but unknown vehicle.

 

However if you can find something in much better condition, lower mileage, better spec etc etc then probably worth buying it but allowing a sum of money for anything that you might find.

 

I would always now recommend doing a VCDS scan of any vehicle you consider buying, it should give you lots of negotiating power.

 

[DJSmiley]

Its always a guess, but apart from the possible DMF issue, most other repairs aren't that expensive.

 

Also, most issues listed are normal wear, and I don't see any reason why you should get rid of this car. All issues are common, especially with 170k miles on it. The flywheel is a known issue, mine failed at 150k miles which is 'about to be expected'.

 

If you buy another car, the majority of these issues will apply to that car as well, unless you're not driving at all

 

The PD105 is known as a very reliable engine (most of the models) so spending some money is worth it. Especially if you've paid nothing and spended only 800 GBP so far. Even if you spend another 800 GBP, this sums up to only 320GBP/year, for 13k miles/year. Sounds pretty reasonable to me, and its likely you can continue driving for some more years.

 

I don't know about the prices in the UK, but I won't be surprised if a similar car will cost you at least 2000 GBP, and is very likely to have the same issues. In your case, for 1600 GBP in total, having a car with those repairs already done... and including maintenance for 5 years..  not a bad deal 

 

Edited 5 February, 2019 by DJSmiley

[MereKat]

That's exactly what I'm thinking, for the money I could probably buy the same car without the faults and possibly better spec, but it would likely have similar miles and as such similar problems very soon. The money I've spent is mostly wheels/tires and suspension and only about £150 on repairs, so really it's been very good to me! Being an ex police car it's been maintained to the book up to 105k then I got it. I have also considered finding a crash damaged car to get the engine/gearbox etc from if cheap enough, I'd imagine the labour time for an experienced garage wouldn't be much over 10 hours and £3-400 for the car itself?

 

I'll have a look at other cars for now and see what's around, which is always hard...for a very unknown reason I'm drawing towards CDTi 150 Astras......it's annoying! Octavia's seem to be holding value around here though and bargain good motors are few and far between!

[grldtnr]

If the general overall condition is good, with no major issues with the bodywork, I would be tempted to keep the car, Octys' don't come up for sale easily on the 2nd hand mkt, so that says something.

I am not thinking you will replace the car,within the budget for repairs, but it is borderline.

Keep it for a while longer I say.

[MereKat]

Bodywork is generally ok, couple of small dents that are very strange and a little bit of rust developing on the sills. After a clean it looks quite nice though! I don't want to part with it really but it all comes down to whether it's economically viable in the end...

 

So far i have:

Lower arm and droplinks -£150 Inc labour

Clutch - £150 labour plus parts (Or £650 all in for SMF Conversion from a garage)

Turbo - £2-300+Surcharge depending which version + £100 labour

 

The costs slowly add up but hoping to be able to spread it over a few months depending how long the major bits are going to hold up!

[grldtnr]

That seems reasonable for the mileage and age for the car, spend the money ,keep it going!

[J.R.]

Are you sure it needs a turbo, could just need a Mr Muscle enema.

 

Prices seem very reasonable for the other bits considering how long you have had the vehicle and the miles you have done, with them done you will have a better vehicle than 99% of the unknown ones on the second hand market.

 

For me the turbo would be the deciding factor, the clutch and DMF are a routine replacement, many S/H vehicles may have reciepts for having them done but unlikely for a turbo.

[Papfox]

I love how they write "after marked" rather than "after market" and they consider the vehicle having been lowered a defect that an owner would want to be warned about.

 

I don't see anything on that screen shot I would consider terrible or not fair wear and tear for a vehicle of that mileage. The plus side of getting it fixed is that you know what state it's in. You aren't going to have a new to you second hard car that looks like a good runner but starts springing nasty surprises on you in 6 months.

[MereKat]

It's had 2 Mr muscle treatments and getting worse. According to the Torque app over the past month it's output has been a maximum of 77bhp, it's the original turbo though and wouldn't have had the easiest of lives!

 

To be fair, if it costs me just over £1k  to get it right I'd still consider it a good value motor, it's just a pain it's all come at once really!

 

I guess after this the only things to watch are going to be any bushings and the cam belt again in 10-15k miles.

 

I did originally plan on having this car for 10 years or until it crumbles, it has been very reliable although it has its niggles but being an ex forces car I never expected anything special from it. Staggered repairs I think are the way I'm going with it...I like it far too much to drop it!

[labman1001]

I'd repair rather than replace as I've been caught out in the past with getting a £5-600 repair bill and buying a "newer & better" car only for 6 months down the line, and sometimes sooner, get landed with a bill for £3-400 and no money to fix it... Admittedly it was mainly Citroen Xantia's I'd bought  

[andyoctavia]

Interesting thread this one, because our car (55 Octavia 1.9 Classic) had two jobs done yesterday - driver's side window regulator and radiator. We have had the car since 2012 and it has 179K on it. That cost us £300.

The truth is, there isn't any rust on the car, it still does 50mpg and is solid. The mechanic who worked on it is one of our neighbours and he said the lower suspension arms have a little play in them, and that the car was pulling slightly to the right on acceleration, and to the left on braking. I am a bit surprised by that because I drive the car at weekends, and always look for a quiet bit of road where I can test the brakes, and test for lateral movement on braking.

[MereKat]

Well it seems the general consensus is to keep it, so it's booked in to have the MOT necessaries sorted on Monday and a retest on Tueaday. New clutch will be ordered tomorrow (DMF as it's cheap enough for a Sachs kit). New turbo is being looked at and will be done at the same time as the clutch. VAC lines will be replaced, I'll service it while it gets the clutch and...Drivers window regulator....mine broke 18 months ago and has been taped up since! Must do that soon, I have a replacement mechanism, just need to replace it! Would be lovely to not have to open my door to get a ticket in a car park...or visit a drive through! It will also get a proper clean, something it hasn't had for a long time!! 

 

£300 for a 55 at the time sounds like a bargain! Mine was £4k in 2014 so similar age as yours at the time!

[J.R.]

I read it as £300 for the window regulator repair!

[MereKat]

Good point, I don't know how to read that now!

[andyoctavia]

9 hours ago, MereKat said:

Well it seems the general consensus is to keep it, so it's booked in to have the MOT necessaries sorted on Monday and a retest on Tueaday. New clutch will be ordered tomorrow (DMF as it's cheap enough for a Sachs kit). New turbo is being looked at and will be done at the same time as the clutch. VAC lines will be replaced, I'll service it while it gets the clutch and...Drivers window regulator....mine broke 18 months ago and has been taped up since! Must do that soon, I have a replacement mechanism, just need to replace it! Would be lovely to not have to open my door to get a ticket in a car park...or visit a drive through! It will also get a proper clean, something it hasn't had for a long time!! 

 

£300 for a 55 at the time sounds like a bargain! Mine was £4k in 2014 so similar age as yours at the time!

Sorry, I didn't make that clear, the £300 was for the work carried out on the radiator and window regulator. The car cost me £3K back in 2012, and to be honest it has been the best car we have ever had and I am comparing it to BMW 5 series and Mondeos.

I had the solid flywheel/clutch job done back in 2012 with 93K on the clock and it has been really smooth.

[MereKat]

I thought that after rereading! Mines been the best I've had, not far off my 2 Rovers and Gen 3 Swift though!

 

I'm sticking with the DMF on mine, less than £300 for a full Sachs kit with new bolts etc. Refurb turbo will also be ordered tomorrow and if I have enough money left after they're fitted then a basic remap may also happen.

 

Quite looking forward to it, after having a few months of 60-70bhp (according to the Torque Pro app)it's hopefully going to feel like an S4 beater! Hoping a remap will get it to 130-140 with the replacement turbo and get it back to 50-60mpg rather than the 25-30 I get now!

 

Then it'll be new wheels/tyres again as 2 are very low on the inside (Rears obviously, I'll swap them with the fronts for now which are wearing nice and evenly) and maybe another little audio upgrade!

[J.R.]

I did a remap on mine (same engine as yours) cost £109 IIRC for a replacement ECU from Ebay, I have the original to refit if need be. 105hp to allegedly 145hp

 

A superb transformation with nothing but positives, no downside, far better to drive, more economical if driven at same speeds but after  couple of tanks I am now using the power and of course the economy has dropped, no point in having it if you cant use it occasionally.

 

Go for it!

 

One slight drawback, and only then if someone uses VCDS to do a mileage check, my new ECU has more miles on it than the the true figure that vehicle odometer shows.

[andyoctavia]

11 hours ago, J.R. said:

I did a remap on mine (same engine as yours) cost £109 IIRC for a replacement ECU from Ebay, I have the original to refit if need be. 105hp to allegedly 145hp

 

A superb transformation with nothing but positives, no downside, far better to drive, more economical if driven at same speeds but after  couple of tanks I am now using the power and of course the economy has dropped, no point in having it if you cant use it occasionally.

 

Go for it!

 

One slight drawback, and only then if someone uses VCDS to do a mileage check, my new ECU has more miles on it than the the true figure that vehicle odometer shows.

I have often wondered if our 105bhp Octavia has been remapped in the past, because people were telling me how their Classics (base model) struggled to get to 90mph, and when we have taken the old girl to France and Germany, it has been happy cruising at 90 for hours.

I do notice a difference driving the Alfa though, because the 1.9 JTD 16 valve had been remapped by the previous owner and is putting out 197bhp and 347 ft lbs of torque.

[MereKat]

My 105 has been up to 126mph on GPS and 130something on the clocks, it also used to happily cruise between 80-100mph on long journeys where the roads allowed, and I've had quite a few comments on how surprisingly quick off the line it is for a mere 105bhp baby. It does seem to have decent low end torque but anything  else soon catches up...0-30, lovely, 30-anything else.....not so quick!

 

I didn't think the stock 105 could be mapped much higher than 130? I did look at it a few years ago and after reading up on the tuners that claim 140+ it appeared the dynos used were renowned for over-reading. I'm not too fused though, at the end of the day it's a family car and has my kids in it so don't need it to be an Evo contender!

 

J.R, I take it you had an immo defeat mapped into the replacement ECU? I'm wondering whether to do it as it makes replacement keys a hell of a lot cheaper but obviously makes the car easier to steal...if anyone wanted a dark green Octavia to try and joyride anyway!

[widdershins]

A mate of mine told me about one of his friends who runs a taxi business.  He swore by the old Octys, said they were good for at least 300k no problem provided they kept up the maintenance on the wear items.  I don't know if the car's previous life was as a beat car or had some "upgrades" for other duties with the police.  It may explain the turbo wear and the lowered suspension.  In any event, if on a limited budget I'd say treat the rust and then run it into the ground.  What you'll spend on replacement parts each year you'll save on depreciation if buying something newer.

[DJSmiley]

The 105PD can be remapped to 140pk/310nm with a stage1 remap, and to 145pk/320nm with a stage 1+ remap.

 

I don't know the limits when you swap the ECU with another. To be honest, I wasn't even aware of this beeing possible. Also not sure about the immobilizer and other stuff if this is actually going to work by only replacing the ECU, and not relearning the keys)

 

I'm sure some tuners offer even higher remaps, but thats either bull****, or involves additional upgrades as well to the system (and not only remapping the ECU)

(Those are actually called stage 2 or stage 3. With a stage3 you can get 190pk/420nm, but that one is quite expensive (and requires a bigger turbo, flywheel, clutch and so on)

 

Unfortunately, I don't know any good tuners in the UK, but in the Netherlands Vagtechniek, JD Engineering, TVS engineering and VVT Tuning are the most well known (and respected) VAG specialists around. If I remember right, TVS also has some UK dealers.

 

But for the age of the car, I won't go anywere above a stage1 remap. I'd rather go for a EGR delete.

 

 

As for the reliability: Yes, 300k (I assume miles, which is approx 480kin km) is not a big deal for these engines. Most important is good care: Mainly regular oil changes, and not pushing the turbo with a cold engine. 

Most other repairs are just common and normal wear. My car is at 262k miles at the moment... Even with the original turbo. But I do change oil and filters every 20-22k (Not for the 30k as stated for the long life) and generally drive below 3000rpm, especially with a cold engine)

 

Also, on a yearly long trip (250+ miles at least) I add 2 bottles of Forte (1x Turbo cleaner and 1x Diesel threatment) to the fuel, and with that mixture, once the engine is on temperature, drive it to the max, burning all the sh*it out of the turbo (pulling till the red on each takeover and so on)

 

Edited 10 February, 2019 by DJSmiley

[andyoctavia]

I used a firm in Barnsley - Darkside Developments - for the solid flywheel job, and they do a lot of tuning specific to VAG cars, so they really know what they are doing.

[MereKat]

DJS unfortunately now the EGR has to "Be fitted and functioning correctly" for our MOT test, I'm just keeping it in place and connected to the vac system but have blocked the pipe so it looks stock, but doesn't actually do anything. The restriction created by the valve itself shouldn't make any diffrrence for what I want from it. "Stage 1" is all I'll be going for. The Turbo will also have a blank plate fitted so nothing will be entering it to clog it up again, just need to look standard. And although it has the miles to suggest this was one of the stronger BXEs made, I still don't want to risk throwing a rod! 

 

 

Widdershins, the "After Marked"  suspension is mine, the car appeared totally stock when I got it apart from a couple of cut cables in the engine bay and some screw holes in the center console which I assume had some form of radio equipment or controls for lights and the sensors behind the rear view mirror were missing. My guess is it was a commuter or beat car rather than response (Like the Fiestas we have around my way), but either way I doubt it had the easiest of times!

 

Andy, for the price I'm going to stick with the DMF. Full DMF kit and SMF Conversion kit seem to be similar prices so opting for the slightly smoother option!