I wouldn't normally want them, but, given the presumably linear nature of the rear torsion beam, a set of progressive springs could be the answer for the estate. 

 

The Mk2 estate was under sprung for heavy load, but a set of helper springs adds some progression and work very well. 

9 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

Do you know if the dampers are the same? 

I don't know if the dampers are the same, but they might be.

 

Maybe you could get the Skoda part numbers for both the rear springs and rear shock absorbers for both the 1.6TDI hatchback and the 1.4 petrol estate. You can then check whether my part numbers for the medium and hard rear springs are correct and see if the part numbers for the rear shock absorbers are the same. VW/Skoda parts departments usually just need the car registration number to be able to get part numbers off their computer system.

 

With the original VW/Skoda part numbers for the rear shock absorbers, it should be an easy job to source correct aftermarket replacement parts such as from Bilstein.

 

Both the Skoda Octavia III 1.6TDI hatchback and estate versions use the same rear springs, which are the medium ones. Therefore, even if you replaced the hard springs on a 1.4 petrol 150HP estate with medium springs, you should still be able to carry a similar load. The most power that the 1.6TDI has in the Octavia III is 115HP, therefore the original stiffer rear springs that you get in more powerful engined versions may simply be to prevent the speedboat effect, ie. the front rising up and the rear sinking down under heavy acceleration, rather than an increase in load capacity. I doubt that the 1.6TDI and 1.4TSI estate versions have different load carrying capacities even though one has medium rear springs and the other has hard rear springs, although I haven't seen any documentation.

Edited 29 October, 20196 yr by Carlston

Thanks. I had a bit of time to look at those catalogues earlier. I'll look more later. 

 

The dampers did appear to be the same for different models. 

 

The front springs also appear to be the same for all "non sports". 

 

The 1.4T is quite a lot faster than the 1.6TDI (I've driven both back to back). I can't imagine that slightly softer springs would allow the back to sag down too much under hard acceleration, though, although it may reduce front wheel traction, which isn't the best anyway...  I think I'd trade standing start grip for a more compliant ride, on balance. 

 

Ps. I saw an early VW Touareg take off fast the other day, the front end rose quite a way - it reminded me off a Tamiya radio controlled car. 

Edited 29 October, 20196 yr by MC Bodge

I did a bit of looking earlier:

 

5Q0511121AF rear springs

Rear Dampers are 5Q0512013HE (Couldn't find them in the parts catalogue, but used ones are on Ebay ... and also fit the Vauxhall Zafira)

Front Springs Blue & Red (correct for Manual hatch and estate car)

Front dampers 5Q3412014K (correct for hatch and estate car) 

I also attempted to measure the natural frequency of the suspension with the aid of a smart phone app.

 

1.6 Hz at the front, rear and in roll.  I might try again with an assistant.

 

-Not extreme, but I'd expected a lower frequency at the front. Maybe the front needs softer springs?

 

The ride itself isn't hugely hard, it is the small bump compliance that is poor.

 

ps. It appears that the lower powered estates and the 1.4TSI hatches use the AD rear springs, so there can't be any huge difference.

 

Edited 29 October, 20196 yr by MC Bodge

5 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

The front springs also appear to be the same for all "non sports".

Using the gknautomotive.com online catalogue, I have found five different front springs for just regular models, so not including RS models (which have lowered suspension), 4x4 models, or even 1.8 litre petrol engines and over.

I will call the five front springs very soft, soft, medium, hard, very hard.

VW/Skoda part numbers are 5Q0411105GG, 5Q0411105GH, 5Q0411105GJ, 5Q0411105GK, 5Q0411105GL, which goes from very soft to very hard.

 

1.0 litre petrol to 1.5 litre petrol manual uses very soft, 1.4 and 1.5 petrol automatic uses soft, 1.6 petrol and 1.6TDI manual uses medium, 1.6 petrol automatic and 1.6TDI automatic and 2.0TDI manual uses hard, and 2.0TDI automatic uses very hard. It doesn't make any difference whether they are hatchback or estate for the front springs. It's just the engine and whether it's manual or automatic transmission.

 

GKN Automotive don't appear to make shock absorbers which would explain there absence from the online catalogue. 

8 hours ago, Carlston said:

Using the gknautomotive.com online catalogue, I have found five different front springs for just regular models, so not including RS models (which have lowered suspension), 4x4 models, or even 1.8 litre petrol engines and over.

I will call the five front springs very soft, soft, medium, hard, very hard.

VW/Skoda part numbers are 5Q0411105GG, 5Q0411105GH, 5Q0411105GJ, 5Q0411105GK, 5Q0411105GL, which goes from very soft to very hard.

 

1.0 litre petrol to 1.5 litre petrol manual uses very soft, 1.4 and 1.5 petrol automatic uses soft, 1.6 petrol and 1.6TDI manual uses medium, 1.6 petrol automatic and 1.6TDI automatic and 2.0TDI manual uses hard, and 2.0TDI automatic uses very hard. It doesn't make any difference whether they are hatchback or estate for the front springs. It's just the engine and whether it's manual or automatic transmission.

 

GKN Automotive don't appear to make shock absorbers which would explain there absence from the online catalogue. 

I found similar last night. 

 

I'm not sure which aftermarket springs are good/better than others. They may well all be the same with different brand names. 

12 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

I'm not sure which aftermarket springs are good/better than others. They may well all be the same with different brand names. 

With aftermarket springs, there often seems to be a one size fits all approach except that the seller won't tell you this. For example, I've seen a listing on ebay that claims their spring replaces both VW/Skoda part numbers 5Q0511121AB and 5Q0511121AC. However, these are two different springs. The AB spring is softer than the AC spring. So if you buy an aftermarket spring that "fits your car", you might actually be buying a harder spring than what the car originally came with.

 

Even the online catalogues are full of mistakes. The Kilen online catalogue lists the small petrol engined Octavia III cars using medium springs whereas the Spidan online catalogue lists the small petrol engined Octavia III cars using soft springs.

15 minutes ago, Carlston said:

With aftermarket springs, there often seems to be a one size fits all approach except that the seller won't tell you this. For example, I've seen a listing on ebay that claims their spring replaces both VW/Skoda part numbers 5Q0511121AB and 5Q0511121AC. However, these are two different springs. The AB spring is softer than the AC spring. So if you buy an aftermarket spring that "fits your car", you might actually be buying a harder spring than what the car originally came with.

 

Even the online catalogues are full of mistakes. The Kilen online catalogue lists the small petrol engined Octavia III cars using medium springs whereas the Spidan online catalogue lists the small petrol engined Octavia III cars using soft springs.

Indeed. That's what concerns me. 

 

Measuring the spring dimensions would be vital. 

 

 

Edited 30 October, 20196 yr by MC Bodge

On 04/04/2019 at 10:02, MC Bodge said:

Driving and observing this morning, although there is a thud from the front over small bumps, the rear gives a bigger one.

 

As I'd observed in the past, bigger bumps such as speed humps are dealt with reasonably well.

 

It is the small bump sensitivity that is the problem. On more sophisticated, air suspension systems this can be improved with negative spring air pressure.

Have a read up on koni fsd shocks mate. I think they now called them koni special shocks. Had them on aN Abarth punto esseesse200 and a 500 Abarth in the past and they were amazing. It’s going to be the next mod I do on my superb sportline. 
fsd stands for frequency selective damping. Depending on the kind of bump will depend on how the shock performs. Very clever and handling was beautiful 

It does appear that the rear torsion beam acts as fairly stiff rear ARB. The car doesn't roll much on its rear suspension, but does rock over bumps and transmit shocks that an IRS car wouldn't necessarily do. 

 

 

I had the opportunity to drive the car on some decent, tight, twisty, bumpy, undulating -muddy- roads today (They are the sort of roads I enjoy, but rarely get the chance to drive on these days...). 

 

Once again, the car did feel fairly good when driven quite hard. It hangs on well, feels stable, changes direction reasonably quickly, copes with bumps at speed etc. 

 

In common with many other new cars, it is the normal driving that it doesn't cope so well with. How many Octavia estates are ever driven like rally cars? Very few, I'd suggest. And yet, they are set up to be more suitable for back road blasts than driving around town. 

 

Ps. The TSI engine really is good. 

Edited 1 November, 20196 yr by MC Bodge

As well as Spidan, KYB also has an online catalogue with details of their springs. Apparently, KYB are an OE supplier of suspension for the new Skoda Scala.

 

KYB online catalogue

 

https://kyb-europe.com/catalogue/

 

Spidan online catalogue

 

https://www.gknautomotive.com/en/AftermarketMotorsport/aftermarket/online-catalogue/

 

If you compare the length of KYB and Spidan coil springs, the KYB coil springs are often a little longer (maybe 6mm to 9mm). 

So I've had a couple of days back on 17s (winter wheels) and can confirm that the ride is massively improved. It's the first time if driven on B6 shocks with 17s and it's so much smoother and not really noticed more body roll with the taller tyres. It's such a difference to the 18 inch summer wheels that I am going to sell them and get 17s for the summer too. Maybe a wider rim to fill the arches a bit more.

Still planning on lowering springs too.

12 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

So I've had a couple of days back on 17s (winter wheels) and can confirm that the ride is massively improved. It's the first time if driven on B6 shocks with 17s and it's so much smoother and not really noticed more body roll with the taller tyres. It's such a difference to the 18 inch summer wheels that I am going to sell them and get 17s for the summer too. Maybe a wider rim to fill the arches a bit more.

Still planning on lowering springs too.

when you say 'ride is massively improved'. What does this mean?

Are you having:

1. Less vibrations under your seat

2. Less vibrations on the steering wheel

3. Less sound coming trough the cabin?

4. Corners betters

5. Deals with potholes/speed bumps better?

6. Can take a corner faster on the highway?

7.  ... ?

 

 

39 minutes ago, cr_2dman said:

when you say 'ride is massively improved'. What does this mean?

Are you having:

1. Less vibrations under your seat

2. Less vibrations on the steering wheel

3. Less sound coming trough the cabin?

4. Corners betters

5. Deals with potholes/speed bumps better?

6. Can take a corner faster on the highway?

7.  ... ?

 

1. Yes

2. Yes

3. Yes

4. Not had a chance to push it hard yet so time will tell.  There is a Tyre Reviews vid comparing wheel sizes.  I can't remember the exact conclusion but 17/18 was the sweet spot for performance.

5. Yes

6. As with 4. not had a chance to test this yet.  

 

Some of this could be placebo coming from worn/hard 18s to much younger/less worn 17 winters.  So conditions suit the tyres better.  I will continue with my plan to sell the 18s for 17s.  Something with a more aggressive offset and wider rim with a modern performance(ish) tyre should give a happy medium between sloppy winters and hard 18s.  give the car a fresh look too.

 

Here's the vid (I thought they compared 16s too. I'll have a watch again):

 

 

Edited 13 November, 20196 yr by MarkyG82