Hi, 

After noticing slight loss in mpg and drift to left I found dragging rear left brake. Cause was the lower slide pin that the caliper bolt screws into was seized somewhat due to corrosion. 

 

I had used copper slip nearly 3 yrs ago when I last touched this new caliper. After reading around I have read copper slip is NOT recommended, it is only supplied with new pads as anti seize for rear of pads. Even here I've read it is not that good. My pad shims showed quite a bit of what looked like galvanic corrosion where I had dabbed the copper slip.

 

Q1. What lubricant is recommended for brakes. I read CERAMIC high temperature brake grease like sold by Granville or silver hook, melting point of 1500C is the recommended lube.

 

Some recommend this for the chrome plated the pads sit in(carrier plate), metal to metal contact and behind the pads. Others also recommend use in the slides where caliper bolts attach.

 

Further, High temp MP silicone grease is recommended by other for slides where rubber cover is to repel water. 

 

Others state lithium grease. I have a tub of silicone but I know it's not high MP. Can I use ceramic grease for all parts of brakes?

 

I used red rubber grease but I'm pretty confident it softened/swelled my rubber seals on piston of calipers prematurely, even though it is recommended for rubber use.

 

Q2. Performance pads. Eg search

EBC Stuff High Performance Brake Pad Set. Seen them on ECP.

Do they produce a noticeable difference in braking / less brake dust which then ends up on the chrome plated clogging them up and stopping the pads moving?

 

Q3 What is the difference between the EBC green, red, yellow? I'm assuming it's asthetics of the pad colour, any difference in braking amongst these 3 pads? 

 

Thanks

Edited 16 June, 20196 yr by bmbmdmb

Copaslip is an anti seize compound and is therefore not a good lubricant, you should not use it on the sliders, it's only for nuts and bolts and the backs of the pads to help prevent squeal.

You should not be using ANY grease on the caliper pistons, only clean brake fluid as a lube to help you push them back in after stripping.

A dab of silicon grease on the sliders is all you need to keep the water out and the boot intact.

Brake systems simply need to be kept clean and free of rust, not slathered in greases.

I would not recommend performance pads for the rear since they don't do much anyway, this is why they corrode and seize.

The caliper slider pins should use a special grease, but this is usually only available in large quantities.

The ceramic grease, as mentioned is ok for this application. Ceratec is a brand name from TMD Friction, a good braking brand, and sold under three brands, available from your local Euro Crap Parts.

Copper-based grease is not a lubricant. It is not really a grease, but inappropriately called that due to its consistency, it is just an anti-seize compound, great for nuts and bolts.  (Should never be used on gearbox input splines where the clutch plate sits, it will fly off and contaminate the clutch linings causing judder)

 

The brake pad specification arrived at by the vehicle manufacturer is a good compromise for general use.  Aftermarket replacements should, by EU law, provide similar performance within a narrow margin.

'Performance' pads will move the operating range.  Many will need to get warm before they work properly, great for long high-speed runs, occasional track use, etc., but possibly frightening or dangerous on the daily commute, where the delay in feeling any significant braking effort may be more than the space allows.  Be careful how you choose.

If you feel there is a performance issue with your brakes, ensure everything is operating as intended before 'upgrading' pads.  If anyone feels they are often needing more braking performance than available, some advanced driver training might be a better answer.

 

The EBC colours denote performance criteria and intended use.  Their website should explain.

 

Personally, I'm happy with Pagid (TMD), Mintex (TMD again), Ferodo, or Brembo.

5 hours ago, NigelC95 said:

If you feel there is a performance issue with your brakes, ensure everything is operating as intended before 'upgrading' pads.  If anyone feels they are often needing more braking performance than available, some advanced driver training might be a better answer.

I read, incidentally, whilst searching about brake lubricant, that performance pads produce less brake dust (anecdotally). My current brakes are great. I drive to anticipate conditions and tend to go through brake discs before the pads wear out due to little need to use brakes. Surface corrosion / water from washing car wears out discs. 

 

Yes, I read the police advanced driver training manual when I was 16yrs. 'Cadence braking' comes to mind. 

 

I understood that bigger brake discs need longer to warm up to reach optimum braking performance, I was unaware that performance pads were too affected by need to warm up more than standard pads. Useful info thanks.

 

I ask about pads also, because even with 'standard' pads I bought some of Eicher's cheapest pads as I discovered on an MOT a braking imbalance on an Astra. It appeared the front pad on one wheel had 'slipped' or just been wrongly installed from factory. Even when bedded in the cheap pads were rubbish. I eventually changed to new discs and 'premium eicher' pads' which were better (naturally there was a new disc but the old one was not worn). Mt thoughts were therefore pay more get better pads and braking performance?

 

Does anyone bother 'removing the brake disc lip' that develops as a disc gets worn? Sand paper? Angle grinder? Does this help stop binding / allow pads to move freely? Anyone comment on this. Thanks.

8 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

I would not recommend performance pads for the rear since they don't do much anyway, this is why they corrode and seize

It's the standard ones that are fitted. vetech GSF. Regardless of brand it's the slides that seized. 

Edited 16 June, 20196 yr by bmbmdmb

8 hours ago, sepulchrave said:

Brake systems simply need to be kept clean and free of rust, not slathered in greases.

So just to clarify,

lube the slides in silicone,

Lube back of pads in contact with caliper or piston with ceramic grease?do NOT lube the chrome inserts the pad ends move side to side upon?

Thanks

20 minutes ago, bmbmdmb said:

So just to clarify,

lube the slides in silicone,

Lube back of pads in contact with caliper or piston with ceramic grease?do NOT lube the chrome inserts the pad ends move side to side upon?

Thanks

 

Yes, that's all you need to do.

Lots of people seem to think performance pads are awful from cold but it's not the case, I've ran Ferodo DS2500, DS3000 and DS1.11 on the road and they are all perfectly fine even from stone cold. 

32 minutes ago, RobLarby said:

Lots of people seem to think performance pads are awful from cold but it's not the case, I've ran Ferodo DS2500, DS3000 and DS1.11 on the road and they are all perfectly fine even from stone cold. 

 

They're utterly pointless when fitted to the rear brakes, which is what we're discussing here. Rears hardly get used, let alone warm.

Ah, completely missed the rear 🤣 Yeh rears just use OEM or euros cheap pads! 

Regarding brake pads. As others have said. Just stick to standard pads. Even on track the rears don't get particularly hot. 

 

If you do go for performance lads though avoid ebc. All there pads are terrible and have issues.