1.0 TSI 70kW oil consumption and top-up spec

[Harnser]

My 1.0 TSI 95ps '67 reg. was supplied with 508 0W20  and with a litre for topping up (not used any as the car had done 5K as a demo prior to my purchase. At the first 12 month service I was told the same oil had been used although I only have their (main dealer) word for that! No GPF in my car by the way.

[FabiaGonzales]

1 minute ago, GeneralPurpose said:

 

No the manual is very clear about what oil to use in your car. Just read it. There is no 'lock-in' as you put it. You don't have to use VW's own branded oil. Just the right specification. If you don't use the right spec oil, your engine will die early and maybe sooner than you think. Remember the VW diesel PD engine issues brought on by folks who simply didn't read their owners manuals and put the incorrect fully synthetic oil in their engines, only to find out sometimes just a few thousand miles down the road, that their camshafts had failed due to that wrong oil being used. This also sometimes totalled the engines with broken camshafts. I spoke to owners who had done this suffering broken camshafts and failed lobes and their responses showed how they just thought that oil was oil was oil as long as it was fully synthetic, it was ok! Totally wrong as they found out.

 

Q: What does the middle number stand for (the 70 in 1.0 ltr/70, 81kW)?

A: The '70' just refers to the 70Kw version of the engine.

 

Q: Has the 1.0l TSI changed in mechanical design between 2017 and early/mid 2018?

A: Yes, there are some very minor mechanical changes to the engine and also software. Also from Sept 2018 onwards all new petrol engine have GPF/PPF's. GPF/PPF equipped engines must use the 0-20w oils as these are low ash. Ash will kill your GPF/PPF over time. The new oils also use different lubrication technology to give the engine advanced lubricity and anti-wear characteristics without using zinc etc. They lubricate better than 5-30/40 oils and protect your engine better, and in addition allow the engine to attain the latest emissions standards that all cars much reach.

 

Would there be any harm in using the 0W20 low ash in a 1.2 TSI? Would it be beneficial or detrimental in any way?

[RJVB]

4 minutes ago, FabiaGonzales said:

70kw/81kw, basically the 95ps and 110ps versions.

 

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70kw/81kw, basically the 95ps and 110ps versions.

Doh, of course, that makes sense...

 

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It's bad for the GPF (gasoline particulate filter). Or so i've been told and have read online.

 

I had gleaned that much too Don't GPFs burn that off just like the diesel variants do (under optimal conditions, yada yada)?

And again, how to know if there's one on a car built in the transition period?

 

 

Evidently fuel prices are high because of taxes. If not they couldn't be so much lower in certain other countries, and we wouldn't have a form of diesel here that costs a lot less despite having a nice colour added to it (so you can get a heck of a fine when it's found in your car because it's intended for heating, farming etc). I try not to think too much about it and consider it just the price to pay, but the recent tax adjustment on diesel we've had here in France (to remove the "artificially lower" price at the pump compared to petrol) does hurt. The government *could* have been clever with these taxes, and make them higher in places where traffic should indeed be reduced (big cities) and comparatively lower in places like where I live where you cannot do without a car.

 

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There are different engine codes, looking at remapping sites (superchips).

 

Then again, remapping is concerned with the ECU, and those can probably change more often than the engine itself. Though you're right that there could be small differences in parts designs too, even in the core where I guess demands on oil specs are highest.

 

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No the manual is very clear about what oil to use in your car. Just read it.

 

I haven't read the manual that came with the car from front to back but I can assure you that the information is not in the places where you'd expect to find it. The section on oil change only gives the list of oil types that covers the entire series engine range (in text, not even in a nice table), and so includes oils that according to you would damage the engine. The lock-in I referred to is not to VW-branded oils, but to servicing workshops. Law dictates that you can have your car serviced outside the official network without voiding your warranty because of that simple fact, but also that you should be able to do basic maintenance like oil changes yourself. To me that means that the car should come with clear, unambiguous information about what you need, that doesn't require access to sources available only to professionals.

As an analogy: what would you think if the manual just gave an inlined list of all the bulbs used throughout the car without detailing which goes where? There you could still take out the original bulb for reference; with oils that's a bit more complicated. (Bulbs are an appropriate analogy also because no one ever thought of imposing easy access for bulb replacement that doesn't require aggravated disassembly, so owners can actually use the spare bulbs they're required to have at hand...)

[Benz3ne]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

There are different engine codes, looking at remapping sites (superchips). Could be a GPF/non GPF difference, or just some other minor alteration;

 

 

Oddly, they don't list the 110ps variants. (Though they do with the 1.2).

 

The CHZL is the version more commonly associated with the Bluemotion 1.0tsi Polo rather than the Fabia, from what I’m aware (yes, pre-GPF). 

 

As tempting as it is to Bluefin the car, my underlying concern is that they claim 175NM stock, when it’s 160NM (they stated to me that talked cats come with more power than quoted figures - not a good enough reason to not put factory quoted values imo), and that a 48NM increase, even at 160NM takes the 5Sp above it’s clutch rating (200NM) by 4%. 

 

On the other hand, I don’t drive like an anus so I probably wouldn't be taxing the clutch quite to that extent (I never really put my foot down hard, have hard starts etc). 

 

Edit: to answer the question about oil consumption in the 1.0tsi, mine is ‘19 plate, has done 5,000 miles and not dropped noticeably below the maximum level. 

Edited 30 June, 2019 by Benz3ne

[Guest]

1 hour ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

Would there be any harm in using the 0W20 low ash in a 1.2 TSI? Would it be beneficial or detrimental in any way?

 

If it isn't yet specced for that car, don't use it. The 2015 onwards 1.2TSI's have a tendency to suffer oil drain back from the valve gear. 0-20w will aggravate that and cause the engine to knock more on start up.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, RJVB said:

 

I haven't read the manual that came with the car from front to back but I can assure you that the information is not in the places where you'd expect to find it. The section on oil change only gives the list of oil types that covers the entire series engine range (in text, not even in a nice table), and so includes oils that according to you would damage the engine. The lock-in I referred to is not to VW-branded oils, but to servicing workshops. Law dictates that you can have your car serviced outside the official network without voiding your warranty because of that simple fact, but also that you should be able to do basic maintenance like oil changes yourself. To me that means that the car should come with clear, unambiguous information about what you need, that doesn't require access to sources available only to professionals.

As an analogy: what would you think if the manual just gave an inlined list of all the bulbs used throughout the car without detailing which goes where? There you could still take out the original bulb for reference; with oils that's a bit more complicated. (Bulbs are an appropriate analogy also because no one ever thought of imposing easy access for bulb replacement that doesn't require aggravated disassembly, so owners can actually use the spare bulbs they're required to have at hand...)

 

RJ, not sure where you are coming from here and you are not making any sense whatsoever. You must have a totally different manual to everyone else. Your oil information analogy is pants too. No offence but you are completely misunderstanding the manual.

[rum4mo]

I've found if you come from a non VW Group brand, you might be looking for some extra guidance/advice as to what weight of oil suits your engine type and use, typically with older Ford and VX owner's handbooks, that info came in the form of the expected location ambient temperature range all year range now as no one changes oil weight for winter or summer use - surely!

[xman]

2 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

Would there be any harm in using the 0W20 low ash in a 1.2 TSI? Would it be beneficial or detrimental in any way?

 

508/509 is NOT backward compatible with earlier specs. Clearly stated everywhere.

 

So do not use in any engine not designed or specified to take it.

 

AFAIK the only engines designed to take it are the latest 1.0tsi, 1.5tsi and the 2.0tsi gen 3b. All these now have GPF/PPF fitted as standard.

 

On the other hand 504/507 can be used in cars where 508/509 is specified. Remember 507 is used with diesel, DPF equipped engines so its low enough ash for particle filters.

 

All the marketing bumpf from the major manufacturers stress 508/509 is a fuel economy oil first and foremost (ie required to help  with WLTP figures and manufacturers reduce EU fleet emissions penalties)

 

Any reference in the user manual about oils is referring to topups  not service fill. 0.5litres doesn't make much difference.

Edited 30 June, 2019 by xman

[xman]

2 hours ago, FabiaGonzales said:

 

 

70kw/81kw, basically the 95ps and 110ps versions.

 

 

It's bad for the GPF (gasoline particulate filter). Or so i've been told and have read online.

 

 

Did you know at £1.20 per litre, 78p is tax? 58p fuel duty, 20p VAT. (yep, the fuel duty tax, gets VATed too!).

 

 

I'm not sure if the early 1.0 TSI has the GPF or not, the later ones do though (it may be around the same time they started shipping them with 0W20 oil from factory)

 

There are different engine codes, looking at remapping sites (superchips). Could be a GPF/non GPF difference, or just some other minor alteration;

 

 

Oddly, they don't list the 110ps variants. (Though they do with the 1.2).

 

Engine codes starting with a "D" denote WLTP compliant engines fitted with a GPF/PPF

 

"C" are earlier variants, mostly without a GPF

[RJVB]

I don't have access to the printed manual right now, but have the car configured via its VIN in the MySkoda app. That gives me access to the manual, in theory that could have been the 100% accurate-for-this-car manual. But sure enough this is what it says about engine oil - exactly as the printed manual does.

 

 

 

I haven't yet had the time to figure out if the (very slow) app allows me to find the exact engine ID or if I have to dive under the bonnet for that.

 

I was going to include the VIN but then realised I don't know if that's unwise - but I can share it in a PM if anyone has free access to a VIN decoder that I don't have access to.

[RJVB]

Can't see an ID plate pinned to the engine block, just an engraving on a ridge sticking out of the front of the engine (looks like some kind of serial number), and a sticker on a plastic part to the left of the oil filler orifice (seen from the front of the car) and that says "CHZ 897 624" and is dated April 13th 2018:

 

 

 

(Dang, I did not notice the sticker faintly visible above and to the right of the engraving, eyes being adapted to blinding sun and all)

[FabiaGonzales]

44 minutes ago, RJVB said:

Can't see an ID plate pinned to the engine block, just an engraving on a ridge sticking out of the front of the engine (looks like some kind of serial number), and a sticker on a plastic part to the left of the oil filler orifice (seen from the front of the car) and that says "CHZ 897 624" and is dated April 13th 2018:

 

 

 

(Dang, I did not notice the sticker faintly visible above and to the right of the engraving, eyes being adapted to blinding sun and all)

 

So it's a late "C" engine which means it may or may not come with a GPF. Probably best to call a dealer. Any dealer given a reg number should be able to tell you. (though, that being said, when looking for 18mm ARB bushes, they all kept offering me 16mm ones, despite my car having an 18mm ARB!)

[RJVB]

Can't I just look once more under the hood and check if the bloody thing is there or not? The engine bay in my 1.6TDI Octy is a lot more cramped and yet the PF is clearly visible (once you know what to look for).

 

BTW, the car was order at the beginning of February 2018, but I guess we can't be sure if it was built to the Feb. specs or to the April specs (if ever those were different).

[FabiaGonzales]

33 minutes ago, RJVB said:

Can't I just look once more under the hood and check if the bloody thing is there or not?

 

Taken from here;

 

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/volkswagen-equips-petrol-cars-particulate-filter-technology

 

it says;

 

"The VW particulate filter doubles as a three-way catalytic converter, the device normally fitted to petrol car exhausts to reduce emissions of toxic gases."

 

so id guess it would look very similar to the non-GPF version

[RJVB]

I fear you're right, I tried to find an image of the thing and the only one I found looked like something that will be sitting somewhere under the car in the exhaust pipe. At least that means it probably shouldn't take much more than 30min or so to replace it if the ashtray gets full

[Guest]

Most GPF/PPF's are combined units, some very few are not. To the untrained eye it's usually not possible to tell if it's just a CAT or GPF/PPF equipped unit just by looking. It's unlikely it will ever need to be replaced unless physically damaged. GPF/PPF's don't give any trouble and they have been out for quite a few years on some cars.

 

RJ, many cars have the VIN number printed on a label stuck to the dash near the base of the windscreen.  My Citroen's have this also.

[RJVB]

Yeah, the VIN isn't a problem, it's also on the registration card. It's enough if you have access to the official databases, which I don't so I was looking for the engine ID. I've since learned that one is probably also on the same label, plus on a larger one that should be on the driver-side B-pillar.

 

Either way, I have the advantage of living 1 village away from the central VAG import hub (disadvantage too as we get lots of car transport trucks through our tiny centre). 1 phone call told me that the car does not yet have the PF (whew!), and (surprise) can take either 504.0 or 508.0 oil. The guy could not tell me though what had been put in, which doesn't really surprise me.

[Guest]

I thought it unlikely you would have a GPF/PPF fitted to your car. I'd probably go with the 508 oil though. It's good oil and will keep your engine cleaner inside.

[RJVB]

We'll see what they say in the (independent) workshop where we've been going, and what the price difference is here. The car will be put on a 1-year interval anyway.

[RJVB]

8 hours ago, RJVB said:

We'll see what they say in the (independent) workshop where we've been going, and what the price difference is here.

 

Well, they said that they were told (by Volkswagen) to put in 508.0, presumably because I had not left clear enough instructions that we were going for the 1-year plan. I didn't ask about the price difference, but that stuff is 30€ per liter, i.e. roughly 4x the price of Total 504.0 rated 5w30 in a 5l bottle (and I'm quite certain we'd pay less for that oil in a workshop). In the end the appointment was cancelled because they weren't even certain their software was up-to-date enough to do the zero reset even for an oil change (and I learnt all that too late to make a new appointment at the VW dealer in the neighbouring village). Progress I guess...

[Nazveel]

Hi guys I am also stuck in similar issue I recently bought 2020 polo tsi 6c/r 1.0 and skoda rapid 1.0tsi and both car has ea211 and both car has 50 60km only I am planing to do engine running-In from Saturday going to use redline breakin oil and I wanna buy oil for it and I am located in india and 0w20 doesn’t makes sense here as we have hot climate 30+c hot here and 508 grade is only 0w20x2 esp frm Exxon and while in search of 508 oil I got my eyes on a 0w 40 x3 Exxon and it is designs for GPF engine so wanna confirm should I go for this 0w  40 X3 esp or shoulf I stick to 0w20 508? And will the 0w20 will work good in 30c ambient climate guys kindly advice please

[Nazveel]

Mobil-1ESPX30W40.pdf