The oil light came on in my wife's "new" Fabia III with the 1.0 TSI 70kW engine (95HP). Indeed, the oil level was just under the min level on the dipstick. I couldn't see any obvious traces of oil loss under the engine and the manual claims that up to 0.5l/1000km oil consumption is normal *after breaking in* (I call that high, my Guzzi consumed much less). This car as a bit over 20000km on the odo, so it could have emptied the entire oil reservoir in half that distance.

 

Still, is this normal for a car that is driven rather calmly, see basically no city traffic and rarely drives less than 15km per trip?

 

The more urgent question is what to top up with. Apparently there's a chance the car has 0W20 in it and that apparently shouldn't be mixed with anything else. How strict should I take that, what will happen if you do mix in some 5W30 or 5W40?

 

BTW, I'm a bit surprised that 5W30 is used for the long-life interval, and 5W40 for the 1-year interval. The W40 spec should resist a bit better to higher temps, no?

Ask wherever you bought it from what oil has been put in it at its last service, there's a good chance it's Castrol 5W30/40 depending if you're on the long/short service interval.

 

Best bet is take it to the garage and query it, especially if you still have warranty on it.

 

As for consumption, my 1.2 TSI with now 52K miles on it (~80K KM), has never needed any top-ups even after 10,000 Miles between services (15,000KM).

The oil you need to put in is 0w20 508,00 as it comes for factory with it in. 

You can put 5w30 504,00 in but its not the right oil the 1.0 TSI not happy running on it. 

The dealer put 5w30 in my fabia SE L 1.0TSI at first service and it did not work well had to go back and put in the 0w20 oil the car but its up to you 

22 minutes ago, Rsrob said:

The oil you need to put in is 0w20 508,00 as it comes for factory with it in. 

 

 

 

I saw your post about your experience, but you seem to be the exception in that, and your engine runs with a different mapping which may or may not make it more susceptible to the exact kind of oil. Our Fabia was delivered early May 2018 and I'm pretty certain it doesn't yet have the petrol equivalent of the AdBlue thingy on diesel engines (I forget the term ATM). I got the impression that the shift to using 0W20 is somehow coupled to that, and more recent than our car.

 

In principle the differences from 5W to 0W and from 30W to 20W shouldn't be enormous under the kind of operating conditions we have here.  I remember a similar argument when Guzzi started prescribing 10W60 for their 2007 and up 2-valve big block V twins; mine was always happy with 10W50 and even 5W50 (but I know lower caused leaks while running for several owners, so putting 0W20 in an engine that must run very hot and get extra heat from the AC does make my cringy).

 

It's a bit crazy that you'd have to contact the dealer for them to check with Skoda to know what oil the car was delivered with. Workshops here put a sticker somewhere (usually on the engine cover support brace) that mentions the brand, type and fill date of the engine oil, why can't the manufacturer do the same? Either way, the VW dealerships are all closed on saturdays, we need the car, so we took a quick trip to the local supermarket and my wife was adamant she wanted the 5l jug of Total 5W40 (502.0 spec) despite my warning she'd probably have to throw away most of it. Sure enough, 0.5l was enough to get the dipstick to read just under half way the min and max levels (engine was cold; I'll check on a hot engine when she returns from wherever she had to go now).

 

I'll be taking an appointment for an oil dump with our local garage (not VAG affiliated but they should be able to get the appropriate info), and discuss with them if they think a 1-year interval is better. If not the car will just have had an extra oil change, which I still think should be a good idea for a new engine.

Hello RJVB, nice choice of motor for your wife.

 

I would advise that your wife checks here oil much more often with these smaller 3 pot engines. They can be more variable as to how much oil is used in the first few thousands of miles compared to the bigger engines. It's very important not to let the oil go off the dipstick or anywhere near the bottom of the dipstick. On the 4 pot 1.2TSI the oil level must never go below two thirds of the way down the cross hatched area. The turbo can be oil starved if this happens. I haven't read the manual for the 1.0TSI so I don't know what it says about that. Without causing you unnecessary worry, it is often too late if the oil light comes on, the level is already too low. I doubt you have suffered any damage in this instance though but it could potentially damage the engine if it happens again.

 

It is always best to try and keep the factory fill oil in the engine as long as possible. I would always advise AGAINST changing out the factory fill oil sooner than is required. The reason for this is you actually want the factory oil to start to degrade in the later stages of the running in and conforming process (this happens from 5k miles onwards). This allows better metal to metal contact at the micro level to fully finish off this conforming process, thus giving your engine best power and mpg and minimum oil consumption. This conforming usually finishes at around the 10k to 15k miles area, but does depend on how the car is used and driven to some extent. Certainly, don't change the oil before 10k miles is the best advice.

 

All manufacturers will state that your engine can use 0.5litrs of oil or so in 1000k miles. This is considered normal but frankly, no engines I've ever had have used that amount of oil. These 3 pot engine can use quite a bit of oil though in the early days of it's life. If you let the engine oil level drop low it will cause even more oil to be consumed, so you get a disproportionate oil usage figure.

 

Given the fact your wife's oil has gone so low in this instance I would say it's probably a good idea to change it out early as you intend, especially as her car has covered a considerable mileage. I'd do this as the engine doesn't carry much oil and the existing oil will have taken a considerable hit on it's additives and will be breaking down much earlier due to the extra work it has had to do. I'd do as you mention and change the car service regime to 1 year annual too.

 

Thanks, that's a useful answer!

 

So maybe I should call our workshop and tell them to inquire what other things are required during the 1st service of a 1-year interval?

Yes, not a bad idea.

My car consumed some oil between new and the first service that i had to top it up.

Since then and now ( at 34. K miles ) oil consumption has been zero.

 

Thanks AG Falco 

Good to know!

 

Wife is back, engine was still nice and hot (from a 10km drive) and the dipstick showed exactly the same level as earlier on the cold engine. Should I have found a higher level?

 

Something else: what's with the filler hole and its strange orifice? I couldn't even insert a classic funnel so topping up was a 2-person job...

 

(But what a pleasure to see an almost perfectly clean engine and engine bay, an enormous change from the oily little diesel monster she had in her C3...!)

Did you check the oil level when new? My Superb was delivered with oil at 2/3rds level, another Fabia of ours was delivered only just above the min mark. 

 

Its not uncommon for new engines to use a bit of oil in first 5-10k while running/bedding in after which consumption settles down.

 

If you have done 20k km (12½k miles) and may used up to 1 litre. That's not a phenomenal amount.

 

Make sure you check the oil in a consistent way, car on level ground, engine at normal running temperature, switched off and stood for 10 minutes before dipping. 

 

Standard oil change on all new Skoda in dealers use 504/507 5w-30, AFAIK no UK dealers use 5w-40, that went out with PD generation engines.

 

508/509 0w-20 is (anecdotally) used at factory fill to comply with type approval and WLTP/RDE claim (Vag can't afford to have another dieselgate), but that is binned when dealers service, unless you specifically insist on the stuff, and you may have to pay a hefty extra charge for the privilege as its expensive stuff. And 0w-20 will likely increase consumption of oil, offsetting any gain in fuel economy. 

 

Top up with a good quality 504/507 oil and just check regularly like you're supposed to do?

 

The only other thing I would add to xmans comments would be to make sure your engine if filled by your dealer with 0-20w at your major services. I'm assuming your engine has a PPF. 0-20w is the latest 'low ash' oil that your Petrol Particulate Filter requires. The 0-30w older style oils are higher ash and unsuitable the PPFs. Although you can top up with that oil under certain circumstances as long as you don't exceed a certain amount. Best to check with our dealer. The 0-20 oil should not make your motor use more oil. So far it seems to have no effect on the engines we have used it in. My own Citroen has used no oil whatsoever over the last 26,000 miles using this latest 0-20w oil. I haven't topped it up ever.

Where would I find if the car has a PPF, or is it something you can see in the engine compartment as with the particle filter (cheesily called FAP here in France :)) in my 1.6TDIcr Octavia?

I'd think with the age of that car, it will be a pre WTLP conforming car and probably not have a GPF, on the subject of 502 5W-40 oils being or not being used in VW Group dealerships, my wife's 2015 Polo 1.2TSI 110PS was last serviced during late July 2018 and it was treated to 5W-40 502 oil, essential as that car was on a prepaid service plan, so cheapest wins the day!

 

Some years ago, I believe that VW Group customers, or VW Group said their customers were getting confused, so they dropped the 5W-40 502 oil option for short/fixed servicing, and from that point on only 5W-30 504 oil would be used in short/fixed petrol engines in the workshop, then something happened and they reverted to using 5W-40 502 oil were possible - maybe caused by dwindling profit margins on prepaid service plans - as good a reason from VW Group dealerships as any thing else for reverting to using 5W-40 502 oils were possible.

 

Bottom line, when a car runs short of oil, topping up with as near the correct spec of oil possible is a lot better than running with the low oil level warning on until you can source the exact correct oil - what you did was the smart thing, even smarter is it was 5W-30 504 oil.

2 hours ago, rum4mo said:

dropped the 5W-40 502 oil option for short/fixed servicing,

 

I believe the 502 (505 for diesels) is actually 0W40. Though it seems they generally just stick in 504 rated 5W30.

 

Once my extended warranty and service plan is finished i'll likely be doing 5K mile oil changes with 502 rated Mobil1 0W40 Full Synthetic. I'm looking to keep the car for some time, and two bottles of oil and two filters is still half the price of just 1 oil filter service at the dealer. And it'll hopefully keep the engine internals in a little better shape for modifications down the line.

 

On a side note, what do you recommend for gearbox oil changes? I'd rather not knacker up my brand new freshly replaced under warranty gearbox...

 

(Looking to go toward 300 bhp, given funding it should be possible - billet rods, crank, head, ported valves, hybrid turbo or maybe a swap, uprated injectors, coilpacks and plugs, rebuild the gearbox with reinforced parts, uprated clutch and flywheel, exhaust, intake, uprated engine mounts, and coilovers. The mounts and coilovers likely being the first things to be upgraded)

 

edit: seems actually the VW specs are slightly flexible, some 502/505 oils are rated 0W40, others are 5W40. Interesting

Edited 29 June, 20197 yr by FabiaGonzales

3 hours ago, rum4mo said:

even smarter is it was 5W-30 504 oil.

 

Can someone explain what is better in the W30 than in the W40 spec oil? As said, for my motorcycle W60 was made compulsory (instead of W50 before), which is a racing spec oil also used for BMW M6 models. The cited reason was better the oil's better resistance to the high engine temps that had gone up even further due to Euro-3 compliance. You'd say that any engine would benefit from this as long as viscosity remains the same for low(er) temperatures.

It is more the VW oil spec that I was referring to which by default means 502 ends up being a 5W-40 and 504 ends up being a 5W-30, you would need to find one of the "independent" oil assessment web pages to see how in theory the 504 compares with the 502 specs in terms of engine wear etc.

 

What I mean is, if you had that car serviced in a Skoda dealership on flexible servicing it would normally get refilled with 5W-30 oil conforming to VW 504, and if fixed servicing to would normally get refilled with 5W-40 conforming to VW 502.

But is the xWy rating system is orthogonal to that, so that two different 5W40 oils are indeed comparable in the properties which are represented by that W rating? This at least is something that the customer can understand ...

Surely the "x" and "y" are just "hot" and "cold" oil weights or viscosity, that in itself is only part of the equation - in the distant past maybe that was all that was worthy of consideration, now you will find even a single oil company like Castrol offers "A" "B" and "C" oils that conform to different marque specs and also some maybe "B" or "A" that while all being 5W-30 are for different marques, how exclusive some of these offerings are wrt each other will only be known to the manufacturer.

Heh, yes. When I discussed Guzzi's recommendation for Agip 10W60 with my dealer, his reaction was that this was undoubtedly simply because of some agreement between the 2 companies, and possible the fact that Agip didn't have a suitable full-synth 10W50 or 10W55.

 

Going over the various offerings in the supermarket this morning I saw that all the 10W40 oils had the same range of different car manufacturing ratings listed on them. That suggests that it might still be possible nowadays to pick an oil based on viscosity rating, mineral/semi/full synth and petrol vs. diesel.

 

2 hours ago, RJVB said:

Heh, yes. When I discussed Guzzi's recommendation for Agip 10W60 with my dealer, his reaction was that this was undoubtedly simply because of some agreement between the 2 companies, and possible the fact that Agip didn't have a suitable full-synth 10W50 or 10W55.

 

Going over the various offerings in the supermarket this morning I saw that all the 10W40 oils had the same range of different car manufacturing ratings listed on them. That suggests that it might still be possible nowadays to pick an oil based on viscosity rating, mineral/semi/full synth and petrol vs. diesel.

 

 

Hi RJ, It's really important NOT to use you method outlined above to choose oil for your car. At least not if it's a modern car. I'm not a Tribologist but I've work side by side with those guys for years, and I have to know oil stuff to do my job. It's completely possible to use the method you describe above to choose your oil and totally wreck your engine really early. You can void your warranty too. You should therefore always totally stick with the engine manufacturers recommendations found in your owners manual. Any reference to Moto Guzzi's and there oils for euro 3 engines is completely inappropriate. Those are very different oils from an era that required very different lube. I won't go into technicalities here but trust me, be really careful with the oil type you use.

What I meant to say was

Quote

That suggests that it might still be possible nowadays to pick an oil based on viscosity rating, mineral/semi/full synth and petrol vs. diesel and then check if it has a relevant manufacturer's rating.

 

What's annoying here is that the car manual is the same for all engines, and just enumerates the various ratings without stating which goes with what engine. That reeks a bit of customer lock-in, and it's surprising the EU hasn't caught on to that yet.

6 hours ago, RJVB said:

What I meant to say was

 

What's annoying here is that the car manual is the same for all engines, and just enumerates the various ratings without stating which goes with what engine. That reeks a bit of customer lock-in, and it's surprising the EU hasn't caught on to that yet.

 

The manual for my car (late 2015) gives the oil specs for each engine on fixed/variable servicing. Now that doesn't cover the 1.0 TSI.

 

 

 

For early 2017 models this information is still there;

 

 

This is the last manual to show the oil specifications (early 2017); https://ws.skoda-auto.com/OwnersManualService/Data/en/Fabia_NJ/05-2017/Manual/Fabia/A06_Fabia_OwnersManual.pdf

 

Edit:Looking at the figures, it seems the 1.0 seems to follow the same specs as the 1.2. With fixed servicing being the same, and variable advancing over time.

 

Though that doesn't account for anything since late 2017...

 

Edit2: This is what's recommended for fixed servicing on my late 2015 1.2;

 

 

Interestingly Mobil 1's 0W40 is rated for VW 502 spec?

 

Edit3: After entering a few different options with year/engine, seems should just use this to find what should go in!

 

https://www.mobil1.co.uk/which-synthetic-engine-oil/landing.aspx

 

Edit4: Be aware of ash content too for newer engines (2018+)

Edited 30 June, 20197 yr by FabiaGonzales

Edit: so you checked, I didn't just overlook the info in the 2018+ manual? I did check if it wasn't listed with the individual engine specs at the end (that would have made sense) but not elsewhere in the manual.

 

What does the middle number stand for (the 70 in 1.0 ltr/70, 81kW)?

 

 

Has the 1.0l TSI changed in mechanical design between 2017 and early/mid 2018? If not it's hard to imagine that what's good for it in the 81kW mapping would not be good for it in its lower power (70kW) mapping from barely a year later. But there is the issue of warranty of course.

 

What exactly is the problem with ash content?

 

 

Ahh, such a pity gas prices and (direly needed) ecological regulations make it impossible to just get an old(ish) American big-block that breathes and lives almost forever and should be dead simple to service

Edited 30 June, 20197 yr by RJVB

 

4 minutes ago, RJVB said:

What does the middle number stand for (the 70 in 1.0 ltr/70, 81kW)?

 

70kw/81kw, basically the 95ps and 110ps versions.

 

5 minutes ago, RJVB said:

What exactly is the problem with ash content?

 

It's bad for the GPF (gasoline particulate filter). Or so i've been told and have read online.

 

6 minutes ago, RJVB said:

such a pity gas prices

 

Did you know at £1.20 per litre, 78p is tax? 58p fuel duty, 20p VAT. (yep, the fuel duty tax, gets VATed too!).

 

7 minutes ago, RJVB said:

Has the 1.0l TSI changed in mechanical design between 2017 and early/mid 2018?

 

I'm not sure if the early 1.0 TSI has the GPF or not, the later ones do though (it may be around the same time they started shipping them with 0W20 oil from factory)

 

There are different engine codes, looking at remapping sites (superchips). Could be a GPF/non GPF difference, or just some other minor alteration;

 

 

Oddly, they don't list the 110ps variants. (Though they do with the 1.2).

8 hours ago, RJVB said:

What I meant to say was

 

What's annoying here is that the car manual is the same for all engines, and just enumerates the various ratings without stating which goes with what engine. That reeks a bit of customer lock-in, and it's surprising the EU hasn't caught on to that yet.

 

No the manual is very clear about what oil to use in your car. Just read it. There is no 'lock-in' as you put it. You don't have to use VW's own branded oil. Just the right specification. If you don't use the right spec oil, your engine will die early and maybe sooner than you think. Remember the VW diesel PD engine issues brought on by folks who simply didn't read their owners manuals and put the incorrect fully synthetic oil in their engines, only to find out sometimes just a few thousand miles down the road, that their camshafts had failed due to that wrong oil being used. This also sometimes totalled the engines with broken camshafts. I spoke to owners who had done this suffering broken camshafts and failed lobes and their responses showed how they just thought that oil was oil was oil as long as it was fully synthetic, it was ok! Totally wrong as they found out.

 

Q: What does the middle number stand for (the 70 in 1.0 ltr/70, 81kW)?

A: The '70' just refers to the 70Kw version of the engine.

 

Q: Has the 1.0l TSI changed in mechanical design between 2017 and early/mid 2018?

A: Yes, there are some very minor mechanical changes to the engine and also software. Also from Sept 2018 onwards all new petrol engine have GPF/PPF's. GPF/PPF equipped engines must use the 0-20w oils as these are low ash. Ash will kill your GPF/PPF over time. The new oils also use different lubrication technology to give the engine advanced lubricity and anti-wear characteristics without using zinc etc. They lubricate better than 5-30/40 oils and protect your engine better, and in addition allow the engine to attain the latest emissions standards that all cars much reach.