Too much turbo in first gear?

[Robbydazzler]

I have noticed that the throttle response in first gear in my 1.0 TSI is  like a switch as a tiny touch on the pedal results in a great leap forward. I have had 3 1.2 TSI engined Rapid/Toledos in the past and the throttle response seemed smoother. I think that overall the 1.0 TSI is livelier and possibly more frugal than the 1.2  but the bigger engine is slightly smoother/more sophisticated. Is the "jerky" response of the 1.0 TSI down to my driving style or do other drivers have the same perception?

[camelspyyder]

It took a while to change my driving style to suit. Gear changes are completely different timing wise on clutch and throttle.

I found it really frustrating to drive during the running in period as the max revs allowed at the time dropped me out of the torque band after changing up.

But even at 11000 miles its still an asthmatic engine and I actively avoid routes with many junctions or roundabouts. Not only do the endless gear changes get on my nerves but the mpg suffers enormously.

 

I loathe the thing, and wish I'd never swapped the 1.2 for it.

 

Now I am retired and never in a rush it does admittedly give over 50mpg long term as long as I stay on routes without regular stop and start.

That said it is badly affected by gradients and headwinds.  Westbound the other day 50mpg over a 100 mile level route. Eastbound same wind next day 60mpg.

 

 

 

 

[shyVRS245]

3 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

It took a while to change my driving style to suit. Gear changes are completely different timing wise on clutch and throttle.

I found it really frustrating to drive during the running in period as the max revs allowed at the time dropped me out of the torque band after changing up.

But even at 11000 miles its still an asthmatic engine and I actively avoid routes with many junctions or roundabouts. Not only do the endless gear changes get on my nerves but the mpg suffers enormously.

 

I loathe the thing, and wish I'd never swapped the 1.2 for it.

 

Now I am retired and never in a rush it does admittedly give over 50mpg long term as long as I stay on routes without regular stop and start.

That said it is badly affected by gradients and headwinds.  Westbound the other day 50mpg over a 100 mile level route. Eastbound same wind next day 60mpg.

 

 

 

 

Sounds like Max in his RBR Honda getting off the line most GP's when the anti-stall/traction control (coughs) kicks in.

[camelspyyder]

It could be worse. I just drove an Ibiza powered (allegedly) by the 1.0 MPI whose 3 cylinders knock out a whole 79bhp.

 

Not knowing it was only an MPI I tried to overtake as if I was driving my 110. Oooops, almost a brown trouser moment.

 

On a positive note, the 1.0TSI / 95 5 speed seems to have way more useable torque and is a surprisingly nice drive in the Arona.

 

That is the only one of the 3 I would buy.

[shyVRS245]

5 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

It could be worse. I just drove an Ibiza powered (allegedly) by the 1.0 MPI whose 3 cylinders knock out a whole 79bhp.

 

Not knowing it was only an MPI I tried to overtake as if I was driving my 110. Oooops, almost a brown trouser moment.

 

On a positive note, the 1.0TSI / 95 5 speed seems to have way more useable torque and is a surprisingly nice drive in the Arona.

 

That is the only one of the 3 I would buy.

With 350lb/ft of torque at 2,000rpm my 245 doesn't notice headwinds or hills TBH.

[Robbydazzler]

12 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

It took a while to change my driving style to suit. Gear changes are completely different timing wise on clutch and throttle.

I found it really frustrating to drive during the running in period as the max revs allowed at the time dropped me out of the torque band after changing up.

But even at 11000 miles its still an asthmatic engine and I actively avoid routes with many junctions or roundabouts. Not only do the endless gear changes get on my nerves but the mpg suffers enormously.

 

I loathe the thing, and wish I'd never swapped the 1.2 for it.

 

Now I am retired and never in a rush it does admittedly give over 50mpg long term as long as I stay on routes without regular stop and start.

That said it is badly affected by gradients and headwinds.  Westbound the other day 50mpg over a 100 mile level route. Eastbound same wind next day 60mpg.

 

I can't say that I loathe the 1.0 TSI engine but I do you agree with you that the 1.2 engine was the better package. Perhaps , however , we have all been spoilt as either engine is far superior to any non turbo engine of similar capacity of ten years ago.

 

 

 

Edited 15 September, 2019 by Robbydazzler

[Greenline3Matt]

On 14/09/2019 at 17:49, Robbydazzler said:

I have noticed that the throttle response in first gear in my 1.0 TSI is  like a switch as a tiny touch on the pedal results in a great leap forward. I have had 3 1.2 TSI engined Rapid/Toledos in the past and the throttle response seemed smoother. I think that overall the 1.0 TSI is livelier and possibly more frugal than the 1.2  but the bigger engine is slightly smoother/more sophisticated. Is the "jerky" response of the 1.0 TSI down to my driving style or do other drivers have the same perception?

 

That doesn't sound right at all, I don't experience anything like the throttle response you describe and I've got 2 cars on the drive with the 1.0tsi engine. 

[Greenline3Matt]

21 hours ago, camelspyyder said:

It took a while to change my driving style to suit. Gear changes are completely different timing wise on clutch and throttle.

I found it really frustrating to drive during the running in period as the max revs allowed at the time dropped me out of the torque band after changing up.

But even at 11000 miles its still an asthmatic engine and I actively avoid routes with many junctions or roundabouts. Not only do the endless gear changes get on my nerves but the mpg suffers enormously.

 

I loathe the thing, and wish I'd never swapped the 1.2 for it.

 

Now I am retired and never in a rush it does admittedly give over 50mpg long term as long as I stay on routes without regular stop and start.

That said it is badly affected by gradients and headwinds.  Westbound the other day 50mpg over a 100 mile level route. Eastbound same wind next day 60mpg.

 

 

 

 

 

Have you had the car checked over? Even before my remap I never felt the car was that bad on pull away. I've had lots of cars with just about every engine and gearbox combination you can think of and I quite like the 1.0tsi engine. As long as its above 1500 rpm it's good as gold. 

[camelspyyder]

1 hour ago, Greenline3Matt said:

 

Have you had the car checked over? Even before my remap I never felt the car was that bad on pull away. I've had lots of cars with just about every engine and gearbox combination you can think of and I quite like the 1.0tsi engine. As long as its above 1500 rpm it's good as gold. 

 

Fully dealer serviced including last week. It's the gear changes that annoyed me so much when it was younger. The flywheel seems so light the revs plunge as soon as you lift the throttle making jerky gearchanges (and lots of them) the order of the day.

Taken in isolation I guess I would find the 1.0 satisfactory, but having traded the excellent 1.2/105 (my favourite 4 cylinder ever) for it, the triple seems inferior in every way. In the exact same bodystyle, my enjoyment of the car is now minimal, both the engine and OEM tyres are awful retrograde steps at the altar of VW cost cutting. I have now driven 60 75 80 95 & 110PS versions of this engine, and only the 95 is agreeable (though still not any match for the 1.2).

 

 

Edited 15 September, 2019 by camelspyyder

[Greenline3Matt]

1 minute ago, camelspyyder said:

 

Fully dealer serviced including last week. It's the gear changes that annoyed me so much when it was younger. The flywheel seems so light the revs plunge as soon as you lift the throttle making jerky gearchanges (and lots of them) the order of the day.

Taken in isolation I guess I would find the 1.0 satisfactory, but having traded the excellent 1.2/105 (my favourite 4 cylinder ever) for it, the triple seems inferior in every way. In the exact same bodystyle, my enjoyment of the car is now minimal, both the engine and OEM tyres are awful retrograde steps at the altar of VW cost cutting. I have now driven 60 75 80 95 & 110PS versions fo this engine, and only the 95 is agreeable (though still not any match for the 1.2).

 

 

 

How long will you stick it out?! It does sound like you're terribly unhappy. 

 

Whereabouts in the country are you? I'm in Kent and if you're ever this was you're welcome to come and try mine out with the remap to see what you think. 

[camelspyyder]

1 hour ago, Greenline3Matt said:

 

That doesn't sound right at all, I don't experience anything like the throttle response you describe and I've got 2 cars on the drive with the 1.0tsi engine. 

 

Mine does. Slightly too much throttle  gets an unexpected bolt of power in first and really gets her indoors bloody moaning about it too.

[camelspyyder]

6 minutes ago, Greenline3Matt said:

 

How long will you stick it out?! It does sound like you're terribly unhappy. 

 

Whereabouts in the country are you? I'm in Kent and if you're ever this was you're welcome to come and try mine out with the remap to see what you think. 

 

Thanks for the offer Matt

 

I am stuck with it though owing to having no job or spare cash to trade it. However, we're moving into a city soon so SWMBO can have it in place of her older  Ibiza and I can walk or bus.

 

 

Edited 15 September, 2019 by camelspyyder

[camelspyyder]

Done it. Sold the Ibiza and given her the Toledo. I don't have to drive it any more.

[shyVRS245]

51 minutes ago, camelspyyder said:

Done it. Sold the Ibiza and given her the Toledo. I don't have to drive it any more.

You don't have to sit in the SEAT.

[Smileyman]

Quote

 

Must admit, apart from the fact that it needs pushing to keep up on long fast inclines I have not experienced any problems - now am achieving around 50 mpg brim to brim. I do find myself in 3rd more than previous car, it's not unpleasant and overall the car meets my needs. True, the 16" and 17" tyre sizes are both rather silly, there are not many tyres to fit and those that are very expensive to purchase. Come October / November I will put the 15" wheels back on, with CrossClimate tyres, this wheel size is much more sensible with better range and prices for tyres. Over 40k miles on the factory fit Bridgestone tyres can't complain about that!

[Delberthot]

I'm still loving mine. It's like any other car, you need to get used to what it can and can't do. In the last 5 years I've owned a 1.8 naturally aspirated Honda Civic, a 1.2 Rapid, a VW Scirocco R and now the 1.0 Rapid. They all have their strengths and weaknesses, they all drive completely differently to one another and they all require a slightly different approach when It comes to driving and overtaking etc

 

I've heard members on the forum talking about it being a whiney engine that needs to be throttled to get the best out of it but to be absolutely frank that's simply not true.

 

The throttle response is one of the quickest on any car I've owned - when changing down, a quick blip brings the revs up to match the revs when you lift the clutch.

 

I think that it's a pretty quick car considering it's a 3 cylinder 1 litre turbo. Obviously not as quick as my last car which was the Scirocco R but then that was a 2 litre 280hp turbo monster and I didn't expect it to be. 

 

Going back to the OPs question - I sometimes found more on the 1.2 that I had than the 1.0 that I have now that when you pull away first thing in the morning with a cold engine, it gives the same reaction that a car with a manual choke would have if it was too far out in that it tries to run away from you

 

One thing I have to agree on though is that the factory fit Bridgestone tyres are dreadful, especially in the wet. I'm rotating mine every 6000 or so miles to get even wear then I'm getting 4 new tyres once they're worn low enough. I can easily get the car into a controlled slide on a roundabout in slightly greasy road conditions

Edited 17 September, 2019 by Delberthot

[edbostan]

I have no turbo in first gear on my 1.2tsi. That is why the manual says to change to second in the distance of the length of the car. If turbo was on first gear over revving would be too easy