Fabia VRS Mk2 - CAVE issues and TSB's

[Gerard2071]

Hi to all, yes I'm a newbee, yes I've started a topic and yes, I'm sure that you may say that this topic has been posted before and answered already.......but bear with me !!!

 

A couple of months ago I bought a 2012 Fabia VRS Twincharger fitted with the CAVE engine. I checked the car over, looked at the service history and took it for a test drive. I loved it, so I bought it.

 

I'm usually quite good at general maintenance on my cars and make a point of dipping the oil, checking the tyres, etc.

 

I was shocked to see that after only 2000 miles or so I had used 2/3 of the oil in the engine. A panic ensued and after much googling I found this forum and other lesser forums. There seemed to be so many posts telling me horror stories of excessive oil consumption, recalls, engine modifications and even brand new replacement engines........

 

One thread mentioned a Technical Service Bulletin issued to recall and modify the CAVE engine (oil breather pipe, air intake, oil injectors and software upgrade on ECM). There was a glimmer of light at the end of the tunnel I found myself in 🙂

 

This is where my woes started again.......the local Skoda dealership could not tell me from their system whether the TSB had been actioned/the mods carried out as my car had never been serviced by them. They suggested speaking to Skoda UK. I emailed them and they replied by telling me that they could not access the vehicle history to tell me this information, but then said that there were no outstanding recalls on my car. Confusion........they can tell me my car has no recalls, but they can't tell me the maintenance history of my car!!???

 

OK.......so I tried a more specific approach.........can you tell me if these mods have been applied to my car?  No, we don't have a system that records that, but we can tell you from our systems that there are no outstanding recalls!!!!???

 

So here I am, unable to tell if these mods have been done, worried about the oil consumption, and left with the only option of paying a main dealer to inspect the car all because no-one can tell me if a TSB has been actioned.

 

Get to the point I hear you say........What do I need from this thread? Basically, I'm aware that the CAVE engine uses oil, it's most likely the hardened bores preventing the piston rings bedding in, oil leaking into the combustion chamber, etc. I know the lucky owners had mods to their CAVE or were lucky enough to get a new engine within warranty. Mine is a 2012, out of warranty with 67k on the clock. All I want is someone in a similar situation who has managed to get somewhere with Skoda to tell me their secret. I'm getting nowhere fast. Skoda have even denied that the CAVE ever had a TSB issued or any recalls for oil consumption!!!!

 

Does anyone know the specific TSB number? I found one, but I think this was a VAG one relating to the CAVE engine in a Polo - TSB 2025520.

 

Are there any obvious ways to tell if the mods were done? (stickers in engine bay, etc)........

 

Any help would be massively appreciated !!!!  Help me to love my VRS again........

 

 

[langers2k]

I came across 2027984 in Russian that appears to be the TSB you're looking for. You might also be able to find it through https://erwin.skoda-auto.cz

[Gerard2071]

Hi Langers2k, I will take a look....... 🙂

[Gerard2071]

Just clicked your link, but it appears that the website requires a user account/password to access.

I don't suppose you could cut & paste it into this thread please?

[langers2k]

Do you mean erwin? You should be able to create an account and at least some parts are free to access.

 

I can't remember if TPI/TSB's are free, but if they aren't, it doesn't cost much for an hours access if I remember correctly.

 

The translated Russian TPI:

TPI Summary	No:  2027984/1
CAVE engine, oil consumption above the manufacturer's standard	Date: 11/29/2011

Description of malfunction

The oil consumption in the engine exceeds the norm specified by the manufacturer (see the instruction manual).

Technical rationale

Premature wear of the scraper ring.

Production solution

Application of upgraded piston rings starting from engine number: CAVE 261914.

The engine number is located on a sticker on the timing cover (see Repair Instructions).

Solution in terms of service

Check for increased oil consumption in the engine

To unambiguously determine the actual consumption of engine oil, you must follow the instructions for measuring oil consumption in the Guided Fault Finding. If the VAS does not have an appropriate verification program, you must proceed in accordance with TPI / Directive for Service 2027572 . The report on the results of measuring the oil consumption must always be applied to the replaced parts, and the second copy should be archived together with the order.

Repairs

If the complaint about the increased oil consumption in the engine is checked as described and the excess established by the manufacturer is established, then the piston ring kit must be replaced (part number 03C 198 151 M )according to repair manualon all pistons.

Original Parts Guide

1 set of piston rings, part number 03C 198 151 M

[Gerard2071]

Thanks .....much appreciated 👍

[Kobayashi]

You need these 'Oil' fixes below, they wont have been done unless an OIL consumption test was done. The consumption test should be logged on the Skoda system, 

No consumption test =No fixes, This was my bill from Skoda Colne. I never needed updated piston / scraper rings. I was burning oil for a good 5 years before i decided to do something about it and as per you, came accross this forum.

 

The breather pipe is the first fix. if you cannot see this pipe it will confirm you have a standard Cave. A new engine engine CTHE or Cave / CTHE hybrid would have this breather pipe. Oil jet fix would not usually performed without the Breather pipe fix

 

ty

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

There are no RECALLS.

It is a TPI (Technical Product Information.)

It was not even a Service Campaign or a Recall Action.

 

Owner / keepers had to complain often enough and hard enough to get an Oil Consuption test, then the breather mod and software update.

Later in Australia the Breather Date update Mk2 was tried, and the software update, and when these were still failing the 'Oil Spray Jet' upgrade was tried.

 

What a shame Staff in Main Dealerships can not be bothered to actually find stuff out, talk to Technical Staff and even use their keyboard 

to find TPI's.

The only training some get seems to be to deny anything and everything.

**Skoda UK better have records of actions carried out on vehicles and those they paid for, warranty work, service campaigns, RECALLS for safety matters and when Engines were replaced. It is their Corporate Responsibility.**

There are Service Campaign Items that involve some Mk2 vRS Fabia. Loom, Heated Seat Switches, DQ200 DSG's, 34F7 or 34H5 etc.

http://skoda-auto.com/services/recall-actions

https://car-recalls.eu/make/skoda

 

 

Just some of many many threads. Then the pinned ones are up top, and links to Luciffers Ultimate Guides.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/318553-fabia-vrs-mk2-breather-fix-yes-or-no-for-high-oil-consumption

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/300604-whos-had-the-breather-pipe-mod-fitted-and-it-worked-vrs-oil-consumption-fix

 

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/361134-oil-spray-jet-squirters-replacement-14-tsi-tfsi-132-136-kw-twincharger

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/432176-can-vrs-engines-be-fixed

 

 

 

Edited 27 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Gerard2071]

Kobayashi, Roottootemoot,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to post a reply to me. I'm no further ahead with Skoda UK, but at least I know I'm not imagining a problem !!!

 

I'm going to carry out my own oil consumption test over the next 500 miles using my high tech plastic measuring jug :-)

 

I'm a little shocked at the overall cost of the "Fix" which I may end up paying. I thought Skoda might admit liability as it's clearly a design flaw. But obviously all the owners are just imagining a problem !!!

 

Thanks for all the advice from you all. The battle goes on........

[Ootohere]

Skoda UK know that of 1,800 CAVE engine Fabia registered in the UK that over 20% have had replacement engines or before engines were being replaced rebuilt ones and even replacement engines have failed.

Then after CTHE were introduced some of these still got Breather Mod updates, Oil Spray Jets and there have been engines replaced.

 

So any pretence otherwise is them actually lying.

 

Sadly it has gone on so long now that you are stuffed and left paying to fix your own car, unless you bought it from a Dealer / Trader / Buisness that sold you a car not fit for purpose.

Skoda UK / VW UK or VW Germany are not going to be helping you.

[Gerard2071]

Roottootemoot,

 

It's a sad situation when a manufacturer thinks that lying and denying a fault with their vehicle will never be discovered. Seems a little bit of reputational damage amongst small forum groups is an acceptable risk.....

[Kobayashi]

On 27/09/2019 at 09:20, Gerard2071 said:

Kobayashi, Roottootemoot,

 

Thank you so much for taking the time to post a reply to me. I'm no further ahead with Skoda UK, but at least I know I'm not imagining a problem !!!

 

I'm going to carry out my own oil consumption test over the next 500 miles using my high tech plastic measuring jug :-)

 

I'm a little shocked at the overall cost of the "Fix" which I may end up paying. I thought Skoda might admit liability as it's clearly a design flaw. But obviously all the owners are just imagining a problem !!!

 

Thanks for all the advice from you all. The battle goes on........

 

Even if you offer to pay for the fixes at a Skoda garage with a Master tech who knows and has had success with fixing previous VRS MK2 they will still insist on an official consumption test which is another £75 (Inc VAT) thats why you see it on the bill above 

 

I checked my official results in MS EXCEL, i knew i was using around half a litre every fuel top up. I could never make 2 fuel top ups without the oil light coming on and using the skoda weigh procedure i was well over double what was considered normal, but warranty run out.  There was some 'good will  for 5 years after the issue so anyone who has a 2014 VRS might still have a chance, but highly unlikely to get. 

The key thing if If you choose to fix & keep & go down the oil consumption route, ask for a compression test first and speak to the master tech in person, they will have to drain all your oil out and fill it with Long Life 3. In all it took me about a month > 6 weeks to sort, since was paying got a courtesy car. 

 

another thing to note the ECU was 'upgraded' and put me the bottom end of 170BHP. I think they de-tuned it slightly, so once it was all sorted i got the car re-mapped and went down the modding route.  Good luck

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

^^^^ the

0.5 litres in 1,000 km (621 miles) first 5,000 km considered acceptable.

 

Is intesresting. because it may well be in the first 5,000 km.   But then Dealership and Skoda employees tried saying it was acceptable a long time after the first 5,000 km.

 

As it was there were those that had engines using 0.3 litres in 621 miles that got engines replaced, because in no way was that considered acceptable.

 

Amazing it takes years before people see where things get lost in translation with VW or things written in Owners Manuals or technical papers need looked at closer.

Edited 28 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Gerard2071]

Kobayashi, Roottootemoot,

 

Once again, thank you for your in-depth responses. I'm currently doing my "low-tech" consumption test for the next few weeks and then I will assess how bad the overall situation is.

 

I have made initial contact with a Skoda dealership in the area where the workshop manager is well versed in the CAVE and may be in a position to advise me on any likely goodwill available......

 

Watch this space :-)

[Fitzwilliam]

Not sure if you may have seen my posts on the VRS oil consumption issues thread but my 2011 Cave engined VRS has a lot of variation in how much oil it uses depending on the type of use the car gets, my normal driving, short journeys of under 10 miles after a cold start gives an oil consumption of approximately 800 miles per litre. Based on a recent long motorway run I made the consumption for that worked out at around 0.3 litres per 1000 miles. 

Depending on how many miles you’re doing I’d suggest you check the oil level every week and try to keep it topped up to the maximum on the dipstick, the more you drive with the level low the faster the oil will get used imo.

[Ootohere]

Which is how it has been since May 2010 with oil users.  But thats not how they were designed to use as much oil as if a 2 stroke.

Sometimes non oil users might use oil after and oil change, or with a different driver.

That amount of oil use is ridiculous, but if people are happy to keep toping it up and the car / engine runs OK there are plenty do that.

 

Back a few years you got your oil supplied by Skoda Dealersips with Skoda UK when you had a proven faulty engine and they had messed you about for months with consumption tests, breather mod, and eventually a engine was rebuilt, or replaced.

Edited 30 September, 2019 by Roottootemoot

[Mickmartin]

If its any use to you.......

 

The online tool that checks for recalls etc, It never worked.

Went to my nearest Skoda dealership for info, Couldn't tell me anything.

Phone Skoda UK customers services and had an absolute ball ache of time arguing with a young lady that there issues with the cave engine, Pointless call in the end.

 

I managed to track down the previous owner of my car and he provided me with the garage that Meadens Skoda replaced my CAVE with the later CTHE, The garage quickly confirmed mine had a new engine at 13k and provided me with all necessary paper work.

 

In my opinion Skoda UK are useless and want to brush anything to do with CAVE engines under the carpet.

[Ootohere]

Important,

There never was a recall on engines, no recall for breather mods, or software updates, not even Service Campaigns on CAVE or CTHE.

There were TPI's and some could not even find them.

 

There was a voluntary recall on DSG's, 2009-2012 then another 2013-2015 which was a Service Campaign, that many never were told about.

 

There was a Wiring Loom TPI, a Heated seat TPI, there could be others and many owners never heard, even if the car was serviced at Main Dealers 

or they bought a used car from them, the 'actual fault; or potentially dangerous issue was ignored.

 

 

Now this is called a 'Recall' and seems not even a proper 'Recall Action' if Registered keepers are not told, or VIN Checkers do not work.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/472548-skoda-recalls-there-are-just-so-many-and-so-many-that-never-hear-of-them

 

 

[Gerard2071]

Roottootemoot, Mickmartin,

 

Thanks for your posts.

 

I'm still monitoring my oil consumption myself to make sure it is sufficiently high to justify paying Skoda to do the "Official" oil consumption test. So far I haven't seen the dramatic drop I was expecting. When I first dipped it after 2k it was down  two thirds. This time after a few hundred miles it hasn't moved. I will keep an eye up to 1k miles.....maybe a miracle has happened !!!

 

All the best. I will update in due course.

 

 

 

[Ootohere]

Miracles do happen, it is amazing that not all that used oil were or are gubbed.  The plugs can be changed, the oil and filter and get rid of long life oil. Use tesco momentum 99 and when the engine has warmed up try to always give it some laldy before parking, it cleans the plugs. Ungums the rings, and can turn around an engine.  Bore wash is an issue, and shell V-power nitro+ and long life oil does no favours imo. 

[Gerard2071]

Roottootemoot, 

 

Let's hope the CAVE has been cured by some miracle, but I won't hold my breath.....still early days in the oil test.

 

I haven't serviced it as yet and have only topped oil with Shell Helix Semi Sythn. Was running it on Asda standard unleaded, but have switched to Sainsbury Super Unleaded. Not sure paying for premium brands would make any real difference to a standard mapped car with 67k on clock TBH.....

 

If I get through the test and the car seems miraculously cured I may treat it to a Jetex stainless system and a performance air filter. Maybe it will get a mild remap after that......got to drip feed the mods to stay under the Wife's radar 😉

 

Thanks for your posts. It is appreciated.

[Ootohere]

WRONG OIL.  use full synthetic, VW 502 so 5w 40

[Ootohere]

It is costing £2.25 extra a tank over the cheapest 95 Ron, worth ever penny, your filler flap has 98 on it and 95 Ron is minimum. 

[Gerard2071]

Roottootemoot, 

 

Thanks as always for your advice. I know the oil is Shell, can't remember if it's semi or full as I'm working away at the moment. Pretty sure I bought it from Eurocarparts, so would have read the tech spec to make sure it complied with manufacturer standards. Will check when I'm back.

[Gerard2071]

On 30/09/2019 at 15:02, Fitzwilliam said:

Not sure if you may have seen my posts on the VRS oil consumption issues thread but my 2011 Cave engined VRS has a lot of variation in how much oil it uses depending on the type of use the car gets, my normal driving, short journeys of under 10 miles after a cold start gives an oil consumption of approximately 800 miles per litre. Based on a recent long motorway run I made the consumption for that worked out at around 0.3 litres per 1000 miles. 

Depending on how many miles you’re doing I’d suggest you check the oil level every week and try to keep it topped up to the maximum on the dipstick, the more you drive with the level low the faster the oil will get used imo.

Hi Fitzwilliam, Thanks for your post. I'm keeping an eye on the oil. I'm the only driver of the car and commute 50 miles a day on A roads and twisties. I also have the occasional Motorway blast at weekends. I will continue my Low-Tech experiment, but will bear in mind your experience. Cheers.

Edited 5 October, 2019 by Gerard2071
Mis-spelling