5 hours ago, eksa said:

How did they think that these tiny buttons can be pressed while driving?  look at the recirculate button, it is so small and placed among ac, sync, temp up and heated seat buttons so you have to focus on this screen while driving and your fingertip has to be very precise to press the correct button.

I am currently blind in the left eye, I have no problem using any of the physical controls on my car, they are all tactile & I can operate them all by feel while keeping my eye (not eyes!) on the road ahead.

 

I would not be able to correctly touch that button even at a standstill & looking at the screen, I know this because I really struggle selecting an address on the satnav on my Chinese head unit with an 8" touch screen.

 

Using the smartphone is a real nightmare, I do all my typing at the computer now.

 

Car controls have used ergonomics and tactile discrimination for decades and it benefits all drivers not just those with visual impairment, I doubt that any of you take your eyes off the road to use 95% of them, as has been said using a mobile phone etc on the move is against the law, its crazy that they should be allowed to get away with this.

 

In the same vein, indicators have become larger and much more visible and distinct over the years thanks to road safety legislation, now they are becoming tiny blips of yellow LED light under a clear lens and practically invisable against the blinding glare of the DRL surrounding them.

9 hours ago, J.R. said:

I am currently blind in the left eye, I have no problem using any of the physical controls on my car, they are all tactile & I can operate them all by feel while keeping my eye (not eyes!) on the road ahead.

 

I would not be able to correctly touch that button even at a standstill & looking at the screen, I know this because I really struggle selecting an address on the satnav on my Chinese head unit with an 8" touch screen.

 

Using the smartphone is a real nightmare, I do all my typing at the computer now.

 

Car controls have used ergonomics and tactile discrimination for decades and it benefits all drivers not just those with visual impairment, I doubt that any of you take your eyes off the road to use 95% of them, as has been said using a mobile phone etc on the move is against the law, its crazy that they should be allowed to get away with this.

 

In the same vein, indicators have become larger and much more visible and distinct over the years thanks to road safety legislation, now they are becoming tiny blips of yellow LED light under a clear lens and practically invisable against the blinding glare of the DRL surrounding them.

 

I can't disagree with any of that, I still stuggle on how NCAP can over look such things when awarding cars safety marks. But to address your problem, can't you simply use voice control to operate those functions? Tactile buttons are certainly much quicker but you can still operate all those systems when totally blind.

Edited 30 July, 20205 yr by Guest

I don't have a problem. Because I have no desire to drive a connected games console with a vertical tea tray sticking up from the centre of the dashboard, nor do I want to talk to my car. I have a reliable & functional means of transport that does not bring me problems like everything I own with a touch screen does.

Edited 30 July, 20205 yr by J.R.

The only way to get manufacturers to listen will be to not buy the car and state exactly why.

 

It is a simple cost saving exercise, as a touch screen costs lest than a smaller touchscreen and physical buttons.

 

Feel free to write to MP and ask what is being done, but sadly big motor is too powerful.

 

I walked away from other options for this car due to the fact that someone stuck an iPad on the dash instead of integrating it.

I'm considering a mk4, its very interesting reading some opinions here on physical buttons and manual settings, in both my current and wife's modern cars I quite honestly never touch a button at all. Set and forget with no discernable issues.

 

I can't think of a situation where I need to push the circ button while driving and my ac temp lives at 21c, I set it when I got the car in 2017 and haven't touched it since haha. 

16 hours ago, Brenternet said:

I can't think of a situation where I need to push the circ button while driving and my ac temp lives at 21c, I set it when I got the car in 2017 and haven't touched it since haha. 

To offer a different perspective - I have an Octavia 3, the recirc button gets pressed quite often when we're following a diesel that is badly setup and producing a lot of smoke (which happens a few times each month), plus SWMBO and I like different temperature settings so the temperature settings get changed every time we swap drivers.

 

Having to hunt around on a touch screen for functions we use regularly will basically rule out replacing our Octavia 3 with an Octavia 4.

It appears we’re not the only ones who don’t like touchscreens instead of controls.
 

A bit older:

https://www.driving.co.uk/news/dashboard-screens-risk-drivers-lives/
 

More recent and interesting:

https://www.theweek.co.uk/98481/are-in-car-touchscreens-safe-to-use-while-driving
 

German court decided a touchscreen alternative to a physical control is a driver distraction very recently:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-53666222

 

I think it’s fair to say car manufacturers should probably pause and think.

 

With that German ruling might we see a different version of the buttons in a future MY, where controls used in motion are on physical buttons?

Edited 6 August, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

Words fail me 🙁

 

The Sunday Times has learnt that the Advertising Standards Authority is investigating a television advert for Vauxhall’s new Corsa, which showed a female driver swerving her car after she was seen trying to use an app on the car’s 7in screen.

Vauxhall is one of more than 40 manufacturers that have systems linked to Apple’s CarPlay, which allows drivers to access compatible apps and dictate text messages. The authority is investigating whether the advert, which appeared this year, condones or encourages “dangerous” or “irresponsible” driving.

Gary Rae, campaigns director for Brake, a road safety charity, said the advert was “irresponsible in the extreme”.

Vauxhall said the ad had been approved by Clearcast, which was set up by broadcasters to vet commercials, “as it demonstrated the safety aspects of Apple CarPlay”

 

I scream out with rage when I see many of the car adverts aimed at the younger generation who never want to see anything other than the screens of their smartphones, driving around a city sending text messages to another vehicle being driven by another idiot doing the same.

Adding to my above post, the German court still held the driver responsible for using the distracting touch screen and the driver then lost an appeal that was based on the fact it was safety critical system (wipers).

 

The advert leave me short of words, but if other courts follow the German View, I think controls on a touchscreen will hopefully be short lived.

Edited 6 August, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

On 13/11/2019 at 04:19, eksa said:

I didn't like that it doesn't have dedicated HVAC controls.  Think of a truck start smoking in front of your car and you try to find and press the recirc button on the lcd.

Totally agree although living in the country it's more often when I go past slurry spreading that I need a quick dive for the recirc. If you can't get recirc on fast enough there is no point as all you do by pressing too late is recirculate the stink. Why touch screens and menus upon menus are an unsafe for use when undertaking a complex safety critical task like driving is pretty much page one of any introductory ergonomics text but they are big cost saving that can be disguised as technological progress.

@J.R.

I really wondered about reference to the 'New Corsa' Advert.

But i see it was from an article on the ASA Investigating one 4 years ago.

 

A big issue with Touch Screens is that in right hand drive cars there are plenty right handers that have issues using the left fingers to do the touching.

Obviously something that might well apply to left hand drive cars and left handers.

 

?

What did they think of the Advanced Parking ad?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited 9 August, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

 

 

VW Group have gone too far really with the controls and also with crappy shiny black plastics.

(Rear GTI badge is just so naff / Ebay.)

 

 

Edited 9 August, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

So he hates the new display/controls and doesn’t seem particularly approving of the changes.

 

It will be interesting to see what comes around for the next MY I think as currently it’s a no.

The biggest shame in all of this is that VAG are not listening, couldn't care less. They know that the vast majority of consumers are more impressed by electronic assists, entertainment and other gadgets than good dynamics and ergonomics, so why bother?

6 hours ago, Octy0GG said:

The biggest shame in all of this is that VAG are not listening, couldn't care less. They know that the vast majority of consumers are more impressed by electronic assists, entertainment and other gadgets than good dynamics and ergonomics, so why bother?

This, unfortunately, is all too true, Octy0GG and sums up their viewpoint in a couple of sentences.

Nevertheless, they may well be forced to care by the introduction of legislation, hopefully not after it has come at the cost to life or limb.

 

There is a big, big difference using a touchscreen whilst sitting on your sofa  to using one in a moving vehicle, whether in stop/start traffic or at high speed.

 

When you can be found guilty of the equivalent of using a “mobile phone” in Germany by using controls on an in car touchscreen and losing your appeal, some car manufacturers will pay attention.

 

If by virtue of driving the car and using essential controls, you open yourself up to committing an offence , then popularity with consumers is likely to be reduced. Particularly in Germany I would think.

 

When they start losing customers, then they’ll do something. That or if laws prevent them selling the cars.

Edited 22 August, 20205 yr by cheezemonkhai

I find it incredible that no-one in VAG High Command didn't see a fundamental problem with this approach.

Maybe they were blinded by the cost savings, although any savings may be negated by a drop in sales.

 

On 23/08/2020 at 00:52, Trilogy said:

I find it incredible that no-one in VAG High Command didn't see a fundamental problem with this approach.

Maybe they were blinded by the cost savings, although any savings may be negated by a drop in sales.

 

 

I actually reached the guy that designed the interior. Yup the person. So I gave him this insight, we will see what they will do, but I don't think there is a solution for this in the near future.

 

The Golf mk8 also has a digital dial for the temperature, but there the 'buttons' are better. 

 

On 24/08/2020 at 22:53, OctaviaMK4 said:

I actually reached the guy that designed the interior. Yup the person. So I gave him this insight, we will see what they will do, but I don't think there is a solution for this in the near future.

Interesting but I don't hold out much hope to be honest.

As I said in an earlier post, it is a very different thing to use a touchscreen whilst sitting in the comfort of your sofa at home compared to a moving vehicle ( with other road users moving around you )

 

I have been buying VAG vehicles exclusively, for over 30 years but my current one which I am looking to change soon, will be the last one due to this issue.

There is a big difference a right handed person using a screen in the middle which is to the right in a left hand drive car than a right handed person using a touchscreen to the centre of right hand drive cars, so left with their left hand.

(Gear shifters are most often in the centre of the car if not on the steering or dash, button shift etc. As are Parking / Emergency brake levers or switches.

 

Google says that 70-95% of people in the world could be right handed and a minority of 5-30% could be left handed and an indeterminate number of people are probably best described as ambidextrous.

 

Then about 65% of the worlds population are in right driving countries and 35% are in left driving ones.

Maybe many are in countries with more bicycles or motorbikes than cars and many more than are interested in new VW Group vehicles.

Edited 26 August, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

6 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

There is a big difference a right handed person using a screen in the middle which is to the right in a left hand drive car than a right handed person using a touchscreen to the centre of right hand drive cars, so left with their left hand.

(Gear shifters are most often in the centre of the car if not on the steering or dash, button shift etc. As are Parking / Emergency brake levers or switches.

 

Google says that 70-95% of people in the world could be right handed and a minority of 5-30% could be left handed and an indeterminate number of people are probably best described as ambidextrous.

 

Then about 65% of the worlds population are in right driving countries and 35% are in left driving ones.

Maybe many are in countries with more bicycles or motorbikes than cars and many more than are interested in new VW Group vehicles.

Not convinced there is a big difference, agreed that if you are able to use your dominant hand to navigate the touch screen you will find some of the fine motor control demands easier but interacting with a touch screen is still a massive distraction from driving, one which is going to involve looking at the screen rather than the road and for many tasks this will be for more than a quick glance. 

The big difference is that it is likely more dangerous with a less dominant hand.  As it is easy to find out by just trying it out to see. Go to the drivers seat if right handed then go to the passenger's seat and try.

You try it with your cack hand and also being blind in the left eye, normal tactile rotary controls, knobs, switches etc are no problem but even a tablette held in front of me and to my right, operating it with my right hand and looking straight at it with my functioning right eye because I have lost the binocular vision and parallax its impossible to type even on the large keyboard.

 

Just using the Satnav a 7 or 8" screen at a standstill is a real challenge to type in an address or postcode, I would not dare try while driving not would I dare try adjusting touch screen heater or any other controls.

The issue here is we're all old, and older people are more averse to change.

 

My 6 and 9 year old kids can operate my phone, tablet and their own games consoles quicker than anyone else I know, they're all touch screens.

 

Touch screens are here to stay, those that hate them that much should buy a car now that doesn't have them whilst you can, and drive / own it for as long as you can.

 

As for the air recirculation system, Skoda have been using 'auto recirculation' for a number of years now, a sensor under the scuttle tray detects unpleasant odours and activates the recirculation mode automatically. It's not 100% effective but hopefully the technology is improving to make it more so.

31 minutes ago, silver1011 said:

 

 

As for the air recirculation system, Skoda have been using 'auto recirculation' for a number of years now, a sensor under the scuttle tray detects unpleasant odours and activates the recirculation mode automatically. It's not 100% effective but hopefully the technology is improving to make it more so.

This 'auto re-circulation'

 

Three options:

1. My car does not have it.

2. It has been switched off on my car.  (can't see how to switch it on or off)

3. It does not work - at least not for Diesel smoke, roadworks tar stink or agricultural stink.

 

I'm tending towards option 3  but if anyone has another explanation it would be welcome.

 

You might also have thought it would be clever enough to quickly go into re-circulate whenever the screen washers are used - not that unpleasant a smell but fairly strong especially during winter when using full strength screen wash.

 

Car 2016 Octavia III 1.4 Tsi 150 Se Sport Manual