Felicia 1.3mpi engine swap

[JussiG7]

My friend (that is wiser than me) had become to the same solution, while I was resting my nerves by Baltic Sea watching birds

The puller was a bit like an antique one, so it could fit only behind the sprocket, but the result was about the same.

I only wonder, why the driving gear and the sprocket are so very tight wedged with the Woodruff key. But on the other hand; the tab washer and the end bolt of the camshaft are rather little and weak unlike crankshaft bolt.

So, I suppose, there is some kind of logic, though I don´t totally get it...  And usually very thorough and detailed Haynes manual does not mention this phase at all.

But otherwise it seems, that the camshaft shall remain in its right position, so refitting new sprockets and chain right might be a piece of cake ?

And the other thing I wonder: How could anyone change the chain and the sprockets while the engine is in car, if it needs that kind of puller? Where could it fit ? 

With appreciating regards, JG7

[RicardoM]

10 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

I only wonder, why the driving gear and the sprocket are so very tight wedged with the Woodruff key.

My best guess is that the previous mechanic used a (big) hammer to put the gear back.

10 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

So, I suppose, there is some kind of logic, though I don´t totally get it...

Don't overthink it. Watch the birds 😀

10 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

And usually very thorough and detailed Haynes manual does not mention this phase at all.

This is the first time I read somebody praises a Haynes manual.

10 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

But otherwise it seems, that the camshaft shall remain in its right position, so refitting new sprockets and chain right might be a piece of cake ?

Fingers crossed. It all depends on the status of the key and camshaft groove for it. Use a file for a smoother fit.

10 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

And the other thing I wonder: How could anyone change the chain and the sprockets while the engine is in car, if it needs that kind of puller? Where could it fit ? 

It will not fit and that would be a bad day for the mechanic. But your engine is out and you don't have any excuse.

[JussiG7]

Hi! I woke up, and today shall be the day to fit new sprockets and the chain, I have decided !!!

34 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

My best guess is that the previous mechanic used a (big) hammer to put the gear back.

Don't overthink it. Watch the birds 😀

This is the first time I read somebody praises a Haynes manual.

Fingers crossed. It all depends on the status of the key and camshaft groove for it. Use a file for a smoother fit.

It will not fit and that would be a bad day for the mechanic. But your engine is out and you don't have any excuse.

In my opinion the condition of the sprockets and chain shows, that they would be original (slightly worn out), but if the factory settings are not so tight, it may really be due to the previous mechanic.

Always watching birds, that is my main hobby in the spring.

This is my first Haynes manual. With Lada there was no use for manuals! Same engine from 1971 to 1997  Though the latest models were  SPI, but local Lada- site gave very good info. H just seems to be very detailed

Yes, I suppose that I shall really use some grinding so that I don´t have to use rubber hammer so much.

I seem to be a lucky looser while having the engine on table !!!

Still believe that nothing can go wrong, because I am not busy with that project !

[JussiG7]

Timing head is now ready. The next on the row is the left side crankshaft seal and the new clutch. Satisfied by now 🙂

 

[RicardoM]

Good job!

Please document all project by taking high resolution photos all around during engine swap. I am interested in those photos (not annotated) for future how-to guides.

[JussiG7]

I shall do it certainly. And try to leave comments out of photos, if possible

[JussiG7]

Hi from Finland !

Now we are already in March, but still once more the winter tries to strike back, so I have time to report the service of the used 1.3 mpi engine.

 

Yesterday I began to remove left side parts from the engine.

The clutch assembly was very easy, because I had decided to renew it totally. So, I did not have to mark its aligning with the flywheel, which in some other case would have been essential.

Only removing those 6 bolts size 12 mm, that had no special torque, and then remove the pressure plate together with the friction plate.

And then I had the access to the flywheel. 

 

Because the flywheel seemed to have no damages at all, (only friction material, that can be grinded/polished off) I decided to keep the old one, no reason to even try to find a new one! But as the flywheel is originally balanced with the engine, its alignment with the crankshaft was important to mark with paint. After doing that I locked the flywheel properly and having read that the bolts have a torque of 30 Nm + 90 degrees, I adjusted the torque wrench to 50 Nm and got those 4 bolts off. Now I could remove the flywheel and inspect it very sharp. Only rust a bit. And then those tracks of the friction plate that may contain asbestos, so I could move to the next step.

 

The left side crankshaft seal is much bigger than its little bro in the other end. So, it was easy to punch 2 little holes in it, and then it was easy to get around the screws in. And then just pull the seal off.

After cleaning the crankshaft edge and the opposite housing in cover I oiled the new seal a bit and pushed it to its place with thumbs. After that a bit tapping with rubber hammer and the old seal to get it to the bottom.

I cleaned the flywheel from rust while it was free from the engine. Now I refitted the flywheel to crankshaft using those paint marks, but only to the finger tightness.

As I could not find my friend´s gas mask anywhere, I decided to put off the cleaning job to Wednesday, but the weather is now so bad that it remains undone today. (the ventilation would be good in 10 m/s wind, though)

 

If this good mood (except today) goes on, I can begin the crankshaft bearing job already tomorrow. And the next week maybe the engine swap, finally ! JussiG7 Finland

[RicardoM]

19 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

Because the flywheel seemed to have no damages at all, (only friction material, that can be grinded/polished off)

Not very visible in the video but you have to assess if there is indeed friction material (why ?) or blueish signs of very heavy clutch slipping and overheating.

[JussiG7]

Hi!

It is clearly friction material, the friction plate has left its pattern in the flywheel. And why? Because the plate has been resting against the flywheel at least two years, because the car has not been used. I find it not surprising, because our climate has become so humid. Here is the bigger pic of the plate. 100% sure no overheating.

[RicardoM]

If it is friction material, you should be able to clean it using a chemical solution. Not sure right now which one but I would postpone using a grinder.

[JussiG7]

Having read the Haynes advise about not using a petroleum based solvent I ended up to polish it with steel wool and a mask. Here is the result. Now back to work again.

[JussiG7]

Now the new friction plate is centralised with a wooden tool, and thereafter the pressure plate bolts tightened slowly in diagonal sequence until finally tightened to 25Nm with torque wrench. I suppose that also the left side of the engine is now ok. So, next week would be the crankshaft bearings in the row, and after refitting the oil pump and the new sump the newer engine would be ready for the swap, which shall happen totally outdoors. So, thank God, we are now in March and not in the middle of the winter !!!

Edited 5 March, 2020 by JussiG7

[Thefeliciahacker]

Perfect 

[JussiG7]

Here we go again, still alive, guys!

 

After many delays I got my engine service and swapping project continued today.

 

From March on I had one problem over a month bothering me. It was the difference of the old and new friction plates. I had to dismantle the clutch a bit to find out, how big the problem might become maybe later.

So, it was a question of the new plates bore lip, that is easy to see in the photo attached. And I swear the plates are photographed from the same sides, though it may not seem to be so.

Why is the newer plate made with such a high bore lip, as the old one has no lip at all ? It is easier to centralize, but while the friction material starts to wear, the is a danger for that lip to touch the end of the crankshaft and the clutch begin to slip.

I dared not to grind the lip lower with an angle grinder, because it might cause an unbalanced clutch. So, my question is: Shall I leave it as it is now (2 mm between crankshaft end and friction plate bore lip), or grind it lower?

 

Then another problem occurred as I was changing the connecting rod big end bearings first (was easy), and thereafter started to try to replace also the crankshaft´s main bearings. I found out, that it is obviously impossible to replace the upper pans without removing the whole crankshaft, so I shall leave the old ones. But also the lower pans seem to look different, though these new parts were from Skoda-Parts.com and OE- quality.

Now I´m so sleepy that must apologize if there are mistakes in my message. Must go to bed.

 

Spring greetings from Finland, JussiG7

 

 

 

[RicardoM]

All parts should be identical. Anything different is a recipe for disaster.

 

Edited 17 April, 2020 by RicardoM

[JussiG7]

Thanks about the fast response, but I must say that it really makes me not happy at all !!!

 

The basic problem seems to be, that if I want to get the best possible OE- parts, I find only friction plates of wrong type, like here:

 

The whole kit from LUK Germany: 

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/201011-clutch-1-3-1-3mpi-luk-9232.html   

 

Or the plain friction plate, OE- part from Germany:

 https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/047141034x-clutch-plate-1-3-de-9184.html     

 

If I search for a friction plate that looks about the same as the original one in my engine, the only clear possibility would be a Chinese one:

https://www.skoda-parts.com/spare-part/047141034dx-clutch-disc-190mm-cn-2474.html

 

I sent a reclamation to Skoda-Parts.com to Czech Republic, and waiting for the answer. Thanks to Corona, I am not busy, because the owner of my VW Transporter (that is only in temporary use) is stuck in the USA, so I can use that car at least till the end of the June

 

Let´s see, what happens!

 

Greetings, Jussi

[RicardoM]

7 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

Thanks about the fast response, but I must say that it really makes me not happy at all !!!

Well, I will be less blunt next time to protect your feelings

The clutch plate for Felicia 1.3 comes in two versions:

• for cars before 01.99 (codes 047141034 or 047141034X)
• for cars from 01.99 (codes 047141034D or 047141034DX)

The old one has that lip.

 

[JussiG7]

OK. It´s at least nice to hear some kind of explanation for the phenomenon 🙂

 

There are still some facts that I can´t understand. 1. The commissioning date of my green Felicia 1.3 MPI is 28.10.1998, and the commissioning date of the red Felicia (from which the engine is taken) was                                                                                                           03.07.1998, so the both should be the model  047141034 or 047141034X , that means, before 01.99. And thus they should have that lip.

                                                                                           2.  In that LUK clutch kit there stands in Skoda-Parts- site that this kit is suitable for Skoda Felicia MPI  AMH engine  50kW/68PS 08/1996 - 12/1997 and further                                                                                                   01/1998-08/2001.  

 

So, Skoda-Parts.com (earlier only Skoda-Dily.cz or Skoda-Diely.sk is able to sell  only the lip model to all 1.3 MPI AMH engines, which is astonishing, if it is only for older cars !

 

I did send some e-mail to mr. Martin Blaha to the company, but was not able to receive any response before the weekend began. And obviously also they have not as many officers as before, because of this Covid19- case.

 

As it is now clear that the plate with that lip shall not work well in the long run, I right now see only one choice, and it is continuing to use that old plate, that was, however, 7,5 mm thick, as the new one is 8,5 mm. It has on both sides possible friction material about 2 mm:s until the rivet heads come too close.

 

The better solution would of course be a brand new friction plate, but I really don´t know, where to get that newer model  [for cars from 01.99 (codes 047141034D or 047141034DX)]. Can anybody tell me ?

 

Regards, JussiG

Edited 17 April, 2020 by JussiG7

[JussiG7]

...and it is the same thing with those main bearings of the crankshaft. I´ll rather use those old ones than replace them with different kind of pans, because they seem to be in rather good condition. And THEY are easy to replace with the engine fitted to the car (as easy as now).

[Thefeliciahacker]

On 17/04/2020 at 23:36, RicardoM said:

Well, I will be less blunt next time to protect your feelings

The clutch plate for Felicia 1.3 comes in two versions:

• for cars before 01.99 (codes 047141034 or 047141034X)
• for cars from 01.99 (codes 047141034D or 047141034DX)

The old one has that lip.

 

but i dont get why they would not be interchangeable 

[JussiG7]

They are interchangeable, at least in the beginning. But that lip goes too close to crankshaft´s end while under pressure, so it shall cause slipping clutch in the long run, I suppose.

 

Right now my temporary VW T4 van has so many urgent problems, that I have to concentrate in it. And, of course, birds watching

[Thefeliciahacker]

got it thank you

[JussiG7]

Today I was back again meeting the engine meant to roll at least 100 Mm.

Clutch is ok with that old friction plate. Timing end is properly set with those good guides of Haynes

 

And crankshaft shall go on with its original main bearings, only connecting rod bearings replaced.

 

But quite almost in my goal there occurred a new problem.

The inner and outer guiding rings and the thick support washer (with its shim) were placed just as they are told to. 

It means: 

1. Guiding rings´ lubricating grooves face away from cap 1 (the first main bearing cap).

2. Guiding ring lug positioned to the main bearing gap in both rings (inside not so easy).

3. The thick outer support ring facing its inner chamfer  towards the cylinder block. 

4. Tiny little shim placed to the crankshaft end as the most outer part before the pulley.

 

And then beginning to tighten that pulley (with Woodruff Key in it) tight. Should reach a torque of 120 Nm as far as I know. But already in 60 Nm there occur problems. The crankshaft is not rolling any more. What might be wrong ??? 

 

I shot some videos, but am not able to attach them, cause my editing program stopped working and they are too big. Maybe I can share them via YT :       https://youtu.be/L5sc9k29yMg                                       

and another shorter. My smartphone camera does not take macro videos:    https://youtu.be/PsO_uOgd1qM

[RicardoM]

Jussi, do you have the Skoda factory service manual? Not Haynes.

[JussiG7]

Well. I downloaded some pdf information from the Romanian site, and I have used its exploded views to see the structure better and to get many torque numbers. but if you mean  a book published by Skoda Factory, I really don´t have it. Here seems to be some kind of e-manual for Skoda Felicia, but I have not downloaded it. Is this, what you are talking about?

     https://www.emanualonline.com/Cars/Skoda/Felicia/1998-SKODA-FELICIA-Service-and-Repair-Manual.html