Felicia 1.3mpi engine swap

[JussiG7]

Good Morning from Finland 

 

Could it be possible to get step-by-step- advises to remove old 1.3mpi engine and install a new one from above, please ?

Haynes book tells to do it from below, and I don't have a possibility to get the car so high, that I could do it that way.

With humble greetings, JussiG from Finland. 

 

 

Edited 4 December, 2019 by JussiG7
forgot some words

[RicardoM]

Hey Jussi

You need a special tool to hold and raise the engine. I know a couple solutions. I will post photos later.

[JussiG7]

Thanks! We have got two lifting hoists, one to lift the engine and one to help it turn to a right position with gear box. No photos available, yet. 

[RicardoM]

This would be the best solution. It is easier to lower the engine first and take out the gearbox then lift the engine out.

 

 

[JussiG7]

Thanks about the best solution!

 

That kind of crane seems to cost at least 235 euros, if bought to private use. Maybe it is possible to lend the crane somewhere, we´ll see. In my youth I used only this kind of  chain hoists. But in that time there were usually more spacious engine rooms in cars than nowadays. In Felicia 1.3 there is otherwise space enough, but the problems do exist only with the whole engine, clutch or gearbox.

 

But the most important information is, that the whole system has to be lowered at first, and the gearbox must be taken out in that position. And only then it is possible to lift up the engine. So, we´ll see how it goes. Now, the switch engine seller has promised to sell an engine (with mileage of 160 000 km) with the price of 150€, and this price the engine removed from the spare part car. And now it is still on its place in that car. So, let us see, how he manages to remove the engine. Maybe I shall learn about his experiences.

[RicardoM]

Don't forget to do a compression test on the engine before even thinking to buy it or putting it on the car.

[Favorit Fan]

Hi. I normally lift my engine and gearbox out from above on my Felicia, although it is a two person job: firstly remove the bonnet and use cloth to protect the front to rear chassis rails from scratching. I use a short, strong metal chain bolted to the engine lifting lugs and position the crane hook off centre to balance the weight of the gearbox. Then drain and disconnect everything as per the Haynes manual, and remove the radiator. lower the load until the second person can swing the gearbox forward of its mounting towards the space left by the radiator then raise the whole lot out of the engine bay and remember to put it down onto wooden blocks but leave the crane attached to separate the gearbox. 

Edited 5 December, 2019 by Favorit Fan
Clarification

[Favorit Fan]

Try to listen to the engine running before you buy it: at that mileage it should have had a new timing chain fitted already, but if not then it will need one within 30000km and the job is easier while the engine is out of the car. Check the wear on the clutch friction plates against the specifications in the Haynes manual while it is out too, or fit a new clutch anyway if you can afford to. 

[JussiG7]

Thanks about your good advises. The future shall show, how many advises I am able to use. Here in Finland the availability of 1.3 mpi engine (AMH) parts has become rather difficult. There are still lots of parts for 1.6 AEE and 1.9D AEF , but no more for AMH, I have to say, unfortunately ☹️

 

[JussiG7]

Hi again!

 

I have continued getting to know to the working conditions and dismantling instructions. The possible machine swap place would be like that: 1.outdoors 2.on sandy backyard 3.easiest way to lift up the car bow would be the stands described in the photo, if wheels are allowed to be left on their places.

Now, as it is clear, that the drive shafts have to be disconnected from the gear box, I only ask: Is it inevitable to remove road wheels, ball joint, bearings etc. to get the inner ends of the drive shafts free from the gear box ?

I mean: If the whole unit of gearbox and engine is is supported from above with chains, is there a possibility to leave wheels, joints, bearings etc. as they are? And slowly lowering the whole unit get the inner ends out of gearbox? Without damaging bearings?

And how about preventing the differential side gears from falling to transmission unit? What would be the easiest way to avoid that problem?

 

I must say, that front-wheel drive cars are really complicated gadgets as compared to a good old rear-wheel Lada !

 

Warm Greetings from Finland

[nimbus]

5 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

Hi again!

 

I have continued getting to know to the working conditions and dismantling instructions. The possible machine swap place would be like that: 1.outdoors 2.on sandy backyard 3.easiest way to lift up the car bow would be the stands described in the photo, if wheels are allowed to be left on their places.

Now, as it is clear, that the drive shafts have to be disconnected from the gear box, I only ask: Is it inevitable to remove road wheels, ball joint, bearings etc. to get the inner ends of the drive shafts free from the gear box ?

I mean: If the whole unit of gearbox and engine is is supported from above with chains, is there a possibility to leave wheels, joints, bearings etc. as they are? And slowly lowering the whole unit get the inner ends out of gearbox? Without damaging bearings?

And how about preventing the differential side gears from falling to transmission unit? What would be the easiest way to avoid that problem?

 

I must say, that front-wheel drive cars are really complicated gadgets as compared to a good old rear-wheel Lada !

 

Warm Greetings from Finland

 

Hi,

If you do it outside, then you should put metal or wooden plates on the support points (where the jacks stands are and the crane).

One advises, already begins to remove the driveshaft, but not the cylindrical part that is in the garbox, if you want to avoid some troubles.

It's quite easy to get the lower suspension arm away, and you will have more space work.

 

Greetings from Denmark

 

[JussiG7]

6 minutes ago, nimbus said:

Hi,

If you do it outside, then you should put metal or wooden plates on the support points (where the jacks stands are and the crane).

One advises, already begins to remove the driveshaft, but not the cylindrical part that is in the gearbox, if you want to avoid some troubles.

It's quite easy to get the lower suspension arm away, and you will have more space work.

 

Greetings from Denmark

 

Thanks!

Of course the support points must be strengthened. But what do you mean with the cylindrical part in gear box? And yes, it is not so difficult to remove the lower suspension arm and the other things. I just dreamed of an easy way to do an engine swap while the car could be standing on its four wheels. That kind of engine swap is possible to do in rear wheel drive car. But there are not so many left.

Greetings from Finland

[RicardoM]

The only things that link mechanically the gearbox to the body of the car are two mounting points, the gear shifter linkage and the driveshafts.

The gear shifter linkage is easy to detach. For the latter see details below.

 

[JussiG7]

Thanks!

I have once replaced the longer drive shaft (right here in Finland), and I also have worked with gear the shift linkage, as I replaced its seal, so they are familiar to me. And the whole process of removing a drive shaft.

 

What I was dreaming of, was the possibility to get inner drive shaft ends free from the gearbox without having to remove road wheels. But it seems to be impossible 😞

 

BTW: The whole troublesome process started the 18th of November, as I started my dear Felicia on Monday evening. Before the engine did run, I heard a short banging sound. And while the engine was running, it began to make a hard knocking sound, as the engine was running evenly. I stopped the engine immediately. Thought: There must be a piece of broken valve on a piston making that sound. My friend towed the car to his yard. Next day we began to open the cylinder head, ordering new gasket seal and bolts from Czech Republic, because they are no more available here in Finland. We got cylinder head removed, and found no fault in any place ! Nothing on pistons, all the valves totally in condition, no leaks while valves closed, and so on! The push rods seemed to be okay so as everything in the cylinder head. Conclusion: There must be at least one damaged connecting rod bearing. 

I ordered new bearings for the whole crankshaft, new front seal, and oil sump seal from Czech Republic, as here in Finland almost nothing is available! Then we opened the oil sump and all connecting rods. No visible damage in conrod bearings. No visible fault in camshaft, no noticeable clearance in conrods´small ends, absolutely nothing ! 

 

Because of that open mystery we ended up to think about an engine swap. But if somebody could solve this problem, all suggests are welcome. It is winter here, and I am thinking to pass the whole project to the next spring

 

With Respectful Greetings, JussiG7

[RicardoM]

My first advice: NEVER assume faults without finding evidence. You got it wrong twice. The correct order is DIAGNOSE -> FIND EVIDENCE -> ORDER PARTS -> REPAIR.

My second advice: since you got the engine open both top and bottom, I'm thinking the camshaft or the timing chain are the only thing left. You should rotate the engine manually until you feel an opposition. In fact you should have done that from the beginning, before touching one single bolt. Jack the car up on front right, put it in 5th gear, remove the spark plugs and start pushing the wheel in the air forward.

[JussiG7]

Thanks about advises!

Actually we thought that the only way to get a right diagnosis was to open the engine 🙂

We shall follow your advise, but only after we have checked one thing. And it is disability to tighten well one spark plug in the fourth cylinder. One night I woke up and had a clear diagnos : The spark plug leaks and causes knocking sound. But my friend said, it is not possible to cause so loud sound. So I believed him, because he is wiser than I am 🙂 

After going thru that phase we shall return to your advises.

And don't worry, we did not use your money 🙂

But I must admit, to my shame, that there are 2 seasons in year, that make me especially stupid: very hot summer and very dark winter.

With warm greetings from cold North,

JussiG7

 

[Favorit Fan]

I just use a bit of a broom handle that is whittled down until it is thin enough to insert into the differential centre once you take out the driveshaft. Use one for each side and they stop the diff side gears from dropping too low, because if they do the driveshaft will not fit back into its place correctly. 

[RicardoM]

8 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

The spark plug leaks and causes knocking sound. But my friend said, it is not possible to cause so loud sound. So I believed him, because he is wiser than I am

Trust your friend. Any leak would end up in low compression, a puffing sound, and heavy misfire.

It is about camshaft/lifters from your description.

[nimbus]

On 09/12/2019 at 21:23, JussiG7 said:

Thanks!

Of course the support points must be strengthened. But what do you mean with the cylindrical part in gear box?

This

[JussiG7]

Thanks to all, guys!

Against all odds it was, however, the leaking spark plug !!! 

And the original sound was very sharp and loud knocking, though I can't show you a video about that.

We fixed it temporarily with a kind of seal. But fixing it well was left to tomorrow, because a snow storm began all by sudden!!!

And thanks about the advises about engine swap! They shall be needed later, maybe the next summer.

But right now I am happy avoiding the whole process in winter.

So, once again I thank you and wish you Merry Christmas from the land of Santa Claus 🎅🎅🎅

JussiG7

[RicardoM]

2 hours ago, JussiG7 said:

Against all odds it was, however, the leaking spark plug !!! 

Is this what you considered to be a knocking sound? Moreover, how come you didn't fix it with the cylinder head out?

 

[JussiG7]

Well, if you take that video sound volume , multiply it 10x and make it sharper , you get the sound of my engine. The knocking was so loud and sharp, that I had to stop the engine almost immediately !

And answer to the next question : while working with the cylinder head I only tightened the plug with my fingers, and at that time I found no fault in it. Only as we put the head back and really tightened the plugs with a tool, we found out, that the plug was not possible to get really tight.

I guess the main problem for us was that we could not believe that origin to produce such a sound.

I also checked that video, and many others. And I tried to apply e.g. that Toyota sound to an engine that is "naked", open, has no softening covers etc. That's why I returned to my previous idea of a loose spark plug.

 

As I have told before, this dark year season kind of lowers my intelligence.

I become like a bear sleeping in winter

 

But being aware about continuing nuclear explosions happening in the sun, and us hearing no sound at all gave me an opposite idea:

How loud is the explosion in cylinder? And what if I hear 5% of it leaking thru spark plug? And what if the basic problem causes "the ordinary knocking effect" ? And the two together cause the terrible noise?

I suppose that my theory itself was wrong, but at least the result was good ☺️

With Kind Regards, JussiG7

 

 

[Thefeliciahacker]

1 hour ago, JussiG7 said:

And answer to the next question : while working with the cylinder head I only tightened the plug with my fingers, and at that time I found no fault in it. Only as we put the head back and really tightened the plugs with a tool, we found out, that the plug was not possible to get really tight.

Threads that are borderline gone will do that.
Chasing them may resolve your issue although you will need to manage the flakes .
I would get a tap and run it down, MAKING SURE I AM TAPPING ALONG THE EXISTING THREAD
And possibly it would do the trick.
Spark plugs should be 1/4 turn tighened from where they bottom down.
And thats it.

[RicardoM]

Jussi (aka old bear), the videos below will answer to your questions and also prevents new ones. As for the horrendous sound you have experienced,  I still can't understand how a spark plug not properly seated can generate a knocking noise. By definition, a knock involves one or more parts hitting one each other. There might be a distinct possibility that a detonation (aka pinging) occurs.

 

 

 

Edited 12 December, 2019 by RicardoM

[JussiG7]

Thanks for Thefeliciahacker about advises!

 

As I said, we did fix the fault only temporarily, to get the car away from my friend´s yard, not disturbing the Christmas peace that is slowly about to descent to Finland. And the get car away beneath the snow storm that was beginning, and still continuing.

 

We did buy the real fixing tools from market yesterday, but could not do the work. Neither today. But as the diagnosis is now ready, the work is 99% done

 

And for Ricardo:

 

I shall watch those videos later, thanks !