Car had 4 new arms and 4 wheel alignment at the dealers. Drove it a couple of hundred miles. 

 

So the clunking is gone and handles a bit more solidly. 

 

However, the thing squeaks like Mickey Mouse whenever I go up or down a speed bump or rough road.

 

Is it bad that they do this? Ie, is the squeaking actually the brand new rubber tearing? I'm thinking whoever installed didn't use grease, but I just assumed either they would, or new arms wouldn't squeak like this so I never said anything before they started the work.

 

Im going to go back to ask them to spray some lubricant if you guys think that might help? I don't want it to squeak for the next 140000 miles, or less if the squeaking means the rubber is being dried out and torn 😞

 

 

Rubber to metal bonded bushes are designed to be lubricant free, smothering them with grease as I have seen recommended is a bodge to hide that the required isolation is not happening and there is metal to metal contact under certain suspension angles, possibly a design failure but more likely pattern part bushes.

 

Rubber in a bonded suspension bush does not "dry out", does not need and should not be lubricated, anyone telling you so is a fool as is anyone that believes them.

 

Unless you have had poly bushes fitted in which case you will know better next time.

 

It is possible that one or more of the bolts has not been tightened and the suspension articulation is not being provided by the rubber compliance but by the inner bushes pivotting on the bolts, this would certainly squeak.

 

 

Edited 6 December, 20196 yr by J.R.

34 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Rubber to metal bonded bushes are designed to be lubricant free, smothering them with grease as I have seen recommended is a bodge to hide that the required isolation is not happening and there is metal to metal contact under certain suspension angles, possibly a design failure but more likely pattern part bushes.

 

Rubber in a bonded suspension bush does not "dry out", does not need and should not be lubricated, anyone telling you so is a fool as is anyone that believes them.

 

Unless you have had poly bushes fitted in which case you will know better next time.

 

 

I'm not sure. This was 4 genuine Skoda arms from the dealership. So I assume it was some sort of rubber. 

Something is not right with the repair.  I would take it back and politely ask them to check and rectify.

 

True story: On our last car, a mark 5 golf with virtually identical suspension set up to a Mk2 Oct.  After 5 years or so the bushes on the front arms start to make a scraping noise, particularly in cold weather. So the independent said change the complete arms, I hadn't researched and didn't realise the bushes alone could have been replaced.

 

Anyway, a new arm fixed the problem for a few months and then the other front side started doing it. So I booked it in at a different independent told them what side need doing.

 

When I got the car back it squeaked and moaned in certain conditions.  Wife took it back twice to the indpendent and they said they couldn't hear it and there was nothing wrong that they could see!

 

In the end, I took it to a Skoda dealer for second opinion. and they discovered the independent had replaced the already replaced control arm with the part for the other side, so if was fitted upside down! Skoda dealer moved the incorrect arm to other side and then had to order another arm for the side that had previously already been replaced!

 

Moral of story: Don't believe mistakes can't be made. It ought to be within their skills to check and resolve the problem.  The other [edit: Independent ]dealer gave me a refund but I'm not sure they really believed me, even though I offered for them to call the Skoda dealer.

 

 

Edited 7 December, 20196 yr by TheClient

went to the dealership this morning, they didn't have a ramp / mechanic free cos they do reduced hours and staff on a saturday, but one of them took a quick test drive in an nearby estate with some speed bumps.

 

admits there is squeak, he didn't do the work himself so can't comment on bolt not tightened or wrong side arms put on, but it will be checked when the car goes in for brakes on Tuesday morning up on the ramp.

 

doesn't think there is anything serious from listening to it (may or may not change his mind when its up on the ramp) but thinks the bushes are too new and need to settle in. says if the still squeak in Jan, they'll take it off to apply lithium grease and if that doesn't solve the problem, claim warranty for new arms. 

 

car will be drive about another 500 miles between now and Tues morning. we shall see then.

Thankfully modern OE suspension bushes are synthetic rubber and are resistant to oil & grease contamination because the quickest way to make a rubber to metal bonded bush fail is to put grease or oil on it.

 

There is a reason why cars have not had grease nipples on articulated suspension joints since the 1940's, its called rubber to metal bonded(Silentbloc) bushes.

 

If they insist on greasing the joints take the car away and try to find a garage with even the slightest indication of competence.

 

Suspension bushes cannot be "too new" and there is no such thing as settling in, seems the only qualification to be a service receptionist is a degree in bulls**t.

Edited 7 December, 20196 yr by J.R.

3 hours ago, J.R. said:

Thankfully modern OE suspension bushes are synthetic rubber and are resistant to oil & grease contamination because the quickest way to make a rubber to metal bonded bush fail is to put grease or oil on it.

 

There is a reason why cars have not had grease nipples on articulated suspension joints since the 1940's, its called rubber to metal bonded(Silentbloc) bushes.

 

If they insist on greasing the joints take the car away and try to find a garage with even the slightest indication of competence.

 

Suspension bushes cannot be "too new" and there is no such thing as settling in, seems the only qualification to be a service receptionist is a degree in bulls**t.

No, that was the mechanic? 

Are you asking a question?

 

Mine was a general statement and something I have heard said for close to 40 years, it would appear truer today than ever.

12 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Are you asking a question?

 

Mine was a general statement and something I have heard said for close to 40 years, it would appear truer today than ever.

No, one of the mechanic said it might need to bed in. 

 

I've googled "new control arms squeaking", and one of the common suggestions is because 

 

"things were tightened up in the air with no weight on the wheels" 

 

From what I remember on Thurs looking through the window at intermittent intervals , the car had no wheels on when it was in the air, so no weight could have been applied as it was a jack and not a ramp. 

 

I also remember a huge stick, about 5ft, dunno what that was. 

 

After the wheels went back on, it went to a ramp for immediate 4 wheel alignment. 

 

When during the changing of arms do they normally tighten at "weight + ground level"? 

 

---

 

Also if next week I tell them to loosen at tighten with weight on the wheels and the problem goes away, does that indicate they were installed incorrectly? 

 

I'm just worried because I read elsewhere that it could tear the new bush. 

 

I mean there is a 2 year warranty, but if there was initial light rather than catastrophic damage it may not show up as a critical failure within the 2 year window? 

 

I was told the guy who worked on my car has had decades of working on VW cars, mostly audi. 

Edited 7 December, 20196 yr by newskodadriver

Sadly I have to go to work now. Car was already off the road for days with bushes so gone there was massive moment and deffo mot fail. 

They should be tightened with the weight of the car on the wheels, otherwise they will be in permanant torsion at normal ride height and could go beyond the elastic limit during bump travel, it will certainly reduce their life and increase NVH.

6 minutes ago, J.R. said:

They should be tightened with the weight of the car on the wheels, otherwise they will be in permanant torsion at normal ride height and could go beyond the elastic limit during bump travel, it will certainly reduce their life and increase NVH.

😞 i felt something pull the first time i went over a speed bump. squeaked ever since.

 

if this is something that the original mechanic did not bother doing, that's down to what, laziness or negligence??

 

i still haven't gone out to work yet, sitting in the house losing money while googling the issues

 

///

 

https://youtu.be/ajgNo_AVrZg?t=614

 

on the first one, he puts it on the ramps

 

https://youtu.be/dvhaoO9k_fU?t=432

 

on this one, he uses something to push up the suspension so that its loaded

 

//

 

that's supposed to be what supposed to happen right? i'm definitely going to ask them to loosen then retighten (or is that "retorque" on monday, to see if the problem goes away. but how can i tell what damage has been done in the mean time?

 

The thing is, i take the car to the dealership and pay a premium like people who take their apple phones to genius bars, because they don't want to think about it, they just want it to work. i should not be having to trying to troubleshoot it myself if i take things to a dealership i feel. I never really wanted to investigate why and how, i just wanted to pay money, having it working then go out to work. i could have gone to indy places with cheaper prices and quicker turnaround. I don;t know if its just that one mechanic, usually the same mechanic has checked my car for the last 90k miles, but he was away on a trip earlier this week.

Edited 7 December, 20196 yr by newskodadriver

Well researched!

 

As Mr Punch would say 'thats the way to do it!!"

30 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Well researched!

 

As Mr Punch would say 'thats the way to do it!!"

Thanks. 

 

Are torn bushings easy to see? By the time it knocks its too late and the warranty may be expired. 

I am also a bit confused as to the rear arms, do they need to be torqued at curb weight same as the front? 

 

I haven't found any videos of the rear suspension arms in skoda being changed. 

 

 

Also one last thing I'm not sure about is what happens in the 4 wheel alignment, and if it involves the control arms in some way. 

 

Supposing it doesn't involve the arms at all, then the mechanic tightening the arms not at curb weight / height would be wholly liable. 

 

But if during the 4 wheel alignment, the arms are loosened, adjusted then retightened, then the mechanic tightening everything up in the air original wouldn't matter much if not at all? 

It is good to research and have an understanding so that you can feel comfortable with what is wrong or an intended fix. But I wouldn't get to bogged down on this. In your repairs it is the same garage so all you are talking about is shifting blame from one employee to another but the reality is you want it checked and fixed.  If it is a torque / assembly issue is will be likely when the arms were installed not the alignment adjust.

 

Also, I tend to agree with @J.R.the grease solution sounds like a cover up.  The bushes aren't lubricated on assembly when the car is new, there are no lubrication points, some lubricants do the rubber no good.  The old original bushes didn't squeak without greasing so why is that the fix for the new ones.

 

I'd let them do there job on Monday and don't be too prescriptive but I would state you don't feel greasing is the correct solution, for the reasons outlined.

 

Enjoy your Sunday and see how it goes on Monday and take it from there.

 

 

 

 

44 minutes ago, TheClient said:

It is good to research and have an understanding so that you can feel comfortable with what is wrong or an intended fix. But I wouldn't get to bogged down on this. In your repairs it is the same garage so all you are talking about is shifting blame from one employee to another but the reality is you want it checked and fixed.  If it is a torque / assembly issue is will be likely when the arms were installed not the alignment adjust.

 

Also, I tend to agree with @J.R.the grease solution sounds like a cover up.  The bushes aren't lubricated on assembly when the car is new, there are no lubrication points, some lubricants do the rubber no good.  The old original bushes didn't squeak without greasing so why is that the fix for the new ones.

 

I'd let them do there job on Monday and don't be too prescriptive but I would state you don't feel greasing is the correct solution, for the reasons outlined.

 

Enjoy your Sunday and see how it goes on Monday and take it from there.

 

 

 

 

The problem is that I have to drive at least 100 mile a day to make ends meet. I can't afford to keep the car off the road any more as I already missed last weekend and 3 days this week. I also paid a premium for the dealerships to do it. 

 

So it's probably understable that every time I hear it creek, I die a little bit inside alongside the suspension.

Edited 8 December, 20196 yr by newskodadriver

If the car creaked due to having new bushes then surely all new cars would creak the same and I’m sure Skoda wouldn’t sell as many new cars! I don’t think they lubricate all cars on the production line to stop creaks so why would a garage do this to yours?

 

How old is the car? How many miles had it done before you had new bushes? Putting new parts on older cars can transmit noises that you didn’t hear before. Had similar on my Octy with new console bushes - much more road noise due to newer firmer rubber but handled better

 

During 4 wheel alignment they would at most only adjust track rod ends on the front and camber/toe on the rear. Unlikely to loosen/tighten anything to do with the bushes unless car was seriously out of whack. 

 

PS - if it is work done at a main dealer you have one if not two years warranty on the work and parts so if anything fails you’ll be covered. Just drive the thing for a week or so and it might settle down. It’s just a car after all. 

Edited 8 December, 20196 yr by Golf-Fiend
Added a bit

I would also ask them to check the droplinks as these can squeak when they are worn and might also need changing.

Any news on this @newskodadriver ?

2 hours ago, TheClient said:

Any news on this @newskodadriver ?

The dealer mechanic last week didn't bother checking it when he did brake pads discs etc, said he trusted his colleague to do it right. 

 

I took it to an indy garage yesterday who also said the dealers most likely did the work correctly as "they don't cut corners like that". 

 

They inspected all 4 arms, the rear suspension arms were already greased. No idea about the front wishbones. Poking it with a stick revealed nothing. 

 

However the indy mechanic did notice the droplink rubbing against the rubber covering of the antiroll bar, or something. Also discovered that one of the front droplinks knock, so both are being replaced next Monday. 

 

The droplinks will just be done at the indy as it doesn't seem to be a big / complex job, also I'm flat out broke atm. The brand of droplink I have asked them to order from Eurocarparts is TRW, so no cheapo south Asian stuff. 

Hey there you go, I just asked someone in another thread if he remembered to put the weight on the suspension when he torqued it all up. Seems a likely candidate. See if you can get the dealer to put it on the ramp, slacken all the bolts on the arms/bushes etc. that have been changed (not right out, just enough to let the bushes rotate on them), maybe lower it back to the ground and bounce it up and down a few times, then back up and torque them all up again with the weight of the car on the suspension. Of course being a dealer they might decide they need to replace all the bolts because some do stretch when torqued, so make sure they do this all under the warranty for the original repair if possible!

5 hours ago, Jim-octavia said:

Hey there you go, I just asked someone in another thread if he remembered to put the weight on the suspension when he torqued it all up. Seems a likely candidate. See if you can get the dealer to put it on the ramp, slacken all the bolts on the arms/bushes etc. that have been changed (not right out, just enough to let the bushes rotate on them), maybe lower it back to the ground and bounce it up and down a few times, then back up and torque them all up again with the weight of the car on the suspension. Of course being a dealer they might decide they need to replace all the bolts because some do stretch when torqued, so make sure they do this all under the warranty for the original repair if possible!

I asked the indy garage to retorque the arms, but they said the minute they do that it would be out of alignment and they didn't have the facilities for 4 wheel alignment. 

 

So I'm gonna wait until next week when new tyres are on? The dealer also said 4 wheel alignment takes tyres into account so new tyres is slightly out? *shrugs*

 

Droplinks shouldn't affect alignment right? Cos I'm having some replaced. 

4 hours ago, newskodadriver said:

I asked the indy garage to retorque the arms, but they said the minute they do that it would be out of alignment and they didn't have the facilities for 4 wheel alignment. 

 

So I'm gonna wait until next week when new tyres are on? The dealer also said 4 wheel alignment takes tyres into account so new tyres is slightly out? *shrugs*

 

Droplinks shouldn't affect alignment right? Cos I'm having some replaced. 

 

1. Removing arms and replacement definitely requires re-alignment.  Putting a torque wrench of the front and rear arm bolts - I wouldn't have thought so, but ok..

2. Yes, new tyres can change alignment a little bit.

3. Drop links can't change alignment (unless further disassembly required due to difficulty removing) - they fit between strut and the arm  roll bar.

Edited 19 December, 20196 yr by TheClient