Electric windows gone dead

[paddyjoe]

I have power windows on the front doors. Both have gone dead, not responding to the switches. I've checked the fuses, they are ok.

Both window slider mechanisms have been replaced not a long time ago due to falling down into their slots.

No response to turning the key in the lock either. I'm planning further investigation but in the cold weather I dont wan't to start breaking plastic.

Would you have any pointers? It's a 2006 1.2, factory fitted key operated central locking which I upgraded to a remote one by swapping the control module out.

Thanks a million!

[TMB]

Check for broken wires inside the rubber door bellows. It could also be the motor unit on the drivers door which contains the electronics.

 

Example...

 

Edited 21 December, 2019 by TMB

[paddyjoe]

Thanks TMB!

I did a visual check on the wires by removing the bellow. No wires broken.

It seems to plagued by the electrical gremlin mentioned here before: top black plug removal resets the unit and gets the windows working but after the 3rd ignition on-off the whole thing goes down again. It must be the motor control unit which needs a tlc I guess. 😞

[TMB]

Yeah, could well be the motor unit. It's easy to change as only the door card needs taking off.

[IdlenutsDK]

We have 2x Fabia, both have a some issues with the switches on the door for the windows. Just seems like ****ting quality switches...just a suggestion for your troubleshotting

[Munfred]

Would go with fuse or drivers side window switch.

[TMB]

11 hours ago, Munfred said:

Would go with fuse or drivers side window switch.

 

On 21/12/2019 at 18:40, paddyjoe said:

I've checked the fuses, they are ok.

 

[SuperbTWM]

Time for a multi-meter or a power probe I reckon.

[Munfred]

1 hour ago, TMB said:

 

 

Yes but have the fuses been checked or have they been pulled and replaced?

Theres plenty of posts on here where people have checked fuses but not noticed they have needed replacing, I have also done this when my abs and traction control lights came on. All the fuses looked ok but it wasn't until I loosened off the 40amp fuse when you could notice it was broken.

Got a friend who you can swap switches to rule out the switch?

[TMB]

8 minutes ago, Munfred said:

Yes but have the fuses been checked or have they been pulled and replaced?

Theres plenty of posts on here where people have checked fuses but not noticed they have needed replacing, I have also done this when my abs and traction control lights came on. All the fuses looked ok but it wasn't until I loosened off the 40amp fuse when you could notice it was broken.

Got a friend who you can swap switches to rule out the switch?

 

Aye, true

[vRSAnt]

For sake of comparison I have the EXACT same problem right now ( not to hijack the post but add to it with possible issues understanding, and I have done some testing on mine)

 

I think I ruled out the switches......had 2 other cars switches "switched" ( no pun lol)
Swapped over fuses and inspected but could continuity on them if necessary.
Also cleaned edges of fuses.
But also checked voltage on 2 main wires on the motor side and they are live for the 2 thickest wires on the bigger motor connector so on the face of it unless it had break on one cable it seems more likely to be total motor/board malfunction.
Also had the door connectors off to look for breaks and couldnt see anything obvious in the jam bit

 

Also remove the plastics around the PCB, it looks mint tbh. I think Im gonna have to replace it. It sucks even more than its really rare version starting 6Y2 on late BLT so guess I will be paying through nose unless somehow earlier motors can be used?
But wasted time also driving to someone elses vRS for parts and that has 3 connectors not 2.

So REALLY important to match your part numbers more than anything. Not sure if my feedback is of any use to the OP. I am finding this VW motors a pain in the ass tbh and not cheap either but may even go new given the very high price of mine for a used part.

Other ideas:
I may have the other door car off on passenger but would that make any sense i.e bad connection on passenger also prevent both from working? Or is this more likely to be only drivers that has this effect?
And no way to switch the motors as I understand as its more of "slave" or something ?
Not sure what to check on multimeter further than what I did on the big thick 2 wires but I guess to be safe could just do contuity on the actual wires from the door connector side loom to the motor maybe ? ( although as mentioned some of the wires confirmed live for sure)

Mine seemed to come after I'd done some repair of leaking EGR gasses down by turbo and ended up EGR deleting, but I can't see how that could be related in any way ? I do need to get it cleared/mapped out though.

 

[TMB]

Recently fitted a new drivers door motor to my mate's Mk2 Fabia. Cost £200 from the stealers. The circuit board must have been the culprit as the motor itself was fine. Couldn't see much wrong on inspection but I suspect the little relay on the board may have failed. Windows instantly burst into life with the new motor.

 

Post mortem...

 

Edited 31 December, 2019 by TMB

[TMB]

12 minutes ago, vRSAnt said:

I may have the other door car off on passenger but would that make any sense i.e bad connection on passenger also prevent both from working? Or is this more likely to be only drivers that has this effect?

 

The electronics in the drivers motor control the other windows too.

[vRSAnt]

Tempting to look at details behind replacing the relay on the PCB but its a little outside my experience

[TMB]

Just now, vRSAnt said:

Tempting to look at details behind replacing the relay on the PCB but its a little outside my experience

 

It's finding the right one as well. I guess they must exist somewhere.

[vRSAnt]

Hmmmm

https://www.vwt4forum.co.uk/threads/info-about-fixing-your-electric-windows-all-for-%EF%BF%BD5.370268/?fbclid=IwAR214R6ZC1jutOUGeWYmLAaxKWAkdkTA1DTKjJ_2YzZnH04T4nazwFn_T3E

[TMB]

^ Interesting stuff 👍

[Breezy_Pete]

If you can get the right relay @vRSAnt and get it and board to me, I can swap it out for you?

 

[vRSAnt]

Thanks for that kind offer! Which aspect of oxfordshire are you, if more North end that not far from me and I could just drop down, feel free to PM me Wino

Note the PCB on mine is more like this thread:

I almost wish I had bought the other motor that I went to collect for comparison but the connectors were different, as was only asking £15. But I think this is the more commonly available 6Q0 part anyway so mostly cheapski ?
( looks like it would almost fit but the smaller connector block had a different shape to prevent this )

Can't find the original part references anywhere on the relay.....
Its a NAiS 60113 1401 ACT512 MO2 12V
Farnell do one? https://uk.farnell.com/panasonic/act512/relay-automotive-spdt-14vdc-20a/dp/2292929

The capacitor next to it is 100u 35V labelled EPCOS B418851 if I can test that more easily I will.

 

Edited 31 December, 2019 by vRSAnt

[vRSAnt]

There is a green spot on my capacitor, I assumed this is some kind of marking but could this be sign of failure ? It can't be easily tested while on the board can it ?

[KenONeill]

2 hours ago, vRSAnt said:

I assumed this is some kind of marking

Correct; it may be a polarity marking but I last did this stuff 40 years ago.

[Breezy_Pete]

Photo of the capacitor? Usual signs of failure are a bulging/convex top, or signs of fluid having come out onto the circuit board near the bottom.

That Farnell relay looks OK.

 

PM'ing you now.

[vRSAnt]

Thanks

I dont think the capacitor has leaked so no obvious sign of failure, assuming the spot is some deliberate marking.

Ended up buying a ACT512 relay from ebay for half the price of Farnell.....seems to be same panasonic one....should receive in a few days.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PANASONIC-EW-ACT512-RELAY-12VDC-35A-2X-SPDT/171642237376?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

[Breezy_Pete]

It'll be awesome if this is a fix. 😊

[vRSAnt]

Before I even have done this one thing changed is the passenger side only has come to life.....on passenger switch which I hadn't got to work before when everything failed.....
 

For me, sadly no improvement on drivers side 😞 I did dismantle the old relay off the board and soldering the new one to the best of my ability, its on.

Switches on drivers side doing nothing.

Only thing Im not sure about is I did dismantle the switch but it feels positive, no issues in its "feel" so unless I put it back together wrong somehow, or was already faulty but I've already switched out the switches with other cars as breakers for this.

Could really do with a "good" car with the 6Y2 motor in it to tell what I have that is known good in my car but I don't know if anyone can help with that ( other than the occasion car breaker, but last one who did that, who had the right motor, but it didnt even work on their car). Be nice to have the fully working comparison.......