Hi Guys,

 

I have the oppurtunity of getting my hands on some pure toulene and would like to use it as an everyday octane booster. It is recommended not go above 30% in volume while adding toulene. I get 91 RON at the pump but more like 89-91, realistically. I am running an IS20 and i understand the easiest way for lesser knock, more power and better overall combustion is better fuel. Pump 99 gas is too expensive and we end up getting 95-97 at the most which is why i have chosen the toulene route. (Octane Booster cans are extremely expensive)

 

My question is, whats the max octane rating of the fuel that i can use, seeing that i have access to an octance booster, i would like to try out different octane numbers and see whats best for DD, spirited and track. I simply ask because when i work out the formula at 30% vol. (it is recommended not to exceed this number) of toulene in 50L tank, comes to about 15L of Toulene which would make the octane rating (91+114/2)=102.5, which is a bit of concern for DD. I wouldnt cross 10L normally but getting the octane rating to 99 seems to run the engine the best, in my expereince. If anyone knows the math behind calculating the volume of Toulene required to make 91 RON fuel 99, it would be most helpful. 

 

Thanks for your time and suggestions guys!

https://www.quora.com/Horsepower-What-happens-when-toluene-is-added-to-the-gasoline-in-a-car

 

I had no idea what you were talking about until I read this, does it help at all......

 

Sounds as though it won't be easy to go from 91 to 99 RON....?

43 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

...and better overall combustion is better fuel

Not exactly. Higher octane rating doesn't mean necessarily better combustion. ECU mapping relies on a standard octane rating (probably 95)

14 minutes ago, RicardoM said:

Not exactly. Higher octane rating doesn't mean necessarily better combustion. ECU mapping relies on a standard octane rating (probably 95)

All ancilliary works such as an appropriate map for the car etc. have been done. Strictly sticking to the fuel aspect for this topic. In my expereince it does make the engine much much smoother, i have done my bits of testing on this car and i am solely isolating the fuel aspect to boost power, etc. on this topic. Thanks.

29 minutes ago, Phil245 said:

https://www.quora.com/Horsepower-What-happens-when-toluene-is-added-to-the-gasoline-in-a-car

 

I had no idea what you were talking about until I read this, does it help at all......

 

Sounds as though it won't be easy to go from 91 to 99 RON....?

Appreciate the reply, needed to see if anyone on the forum has developed a blend with toulene/ other aromatics/ octane boosters for DD, it seems to be the easiest way to generate power over 91 RON, an easy 20hp is more than enough as opposed to swapping out a part physically.

2 hours ago, TinkerBoy said:

I am running an IS20 and i understand the easiest way for lesser knock, more power and better overall combustion is better fuel.

 

Trouble you will find is most places Skoda has a market good 98-99 RON is easily available. If you have gone to the trouble of a turbo upgrade they will simply use that.

 

If you are having trouble on pump fuel I would be looking at whatever map you are using for the IS20. It is perfectly possible to run an IS20 on 91RON with no issues if mapped correctly.

7 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

Trouble you will find is most places Skoda has a market good 98-99 RON is easily available. If you have gone to the trouble of a turbo upgrade they will simply use that.

 

If you are having trouble on pump fuel I would be looking at whatever map you are using for the IS20. It is perfectly possible to run an IS20 on 91RON with no issues if mapped correctly.

Agreed my learned friend, i can run the turbo on 91 93 95 or 99, i have easy access to 91 + boosters and maps for the same. Yes, the engine can run on 91 but can produce more power with a higher octane number which is quite frankly doable. 91, by no means is bad, but 99 is better

 

Was strictly looking for a blend if someone has tried it and what is the highest octane rating that this engine can handle, just in case i put in a little extra without realising

13 minutes ago, TinkerBoy said:

and what is the highest octane rating that this engine can handle,

 

I don't think you are understanding what octane rating is. It is a measure of 'resistance to detonation'. Higher octane has better 'resistance to detonation' so you can advance the ignition and run higher boost pressures to get more power.

 

Putting in higher octane will do nothing (except protect the engine better from detonation) without the map making use of it.

 

What the engine will do with 98,99,100,101 etc is completely down to what is written in the map you are using.

 

Only person to know that will be the one who wrote your map

12 minutes ago, flybynite said:

 

Only person to know that will be the one who wrote your map

 

Unfortunately Columbus and Amundsen are both dead.

 

 

I'll not even bother getting my coat...

3 hours ago, TinkerBoy said:

Hi Guys,

 

I have the oppurtunity of getting my hands on some pure toulene and would like to use it as an everyday octane booster. It is recommended not go above 30% in volume while adding toulene. I get 91 RON at the pump but more like 89-91, realistically. I am running an IS20 and i understand the easiest way for lesser knock, more power and better overall combustion is better fuel. Pump 99 gas is too expensive and we end up getting 95-97 at the most which is why i have chosen the toulene route. (Octane Booster cans are extremely expensive)

 

My question is, whats the max octane rating of the fuel that i can use, seeing that i have access to an octance booster, i would like to try out different octane numbers and see whats best for DD, spirited and track. I simply ask because when i work out the formula at 30% vol. (it is recommended not to exceed this number) of toulene in 50L tank, comes to about 15L of Toulene which would make the octane rating (91+114/2)=102.5, which is a bit of concern for DD. I wouldnt cross 10L normally but getting the octane rating to 99 seems to run the engine the best, in my expereince. If anyone knows the math behind calculating the volume of Toulene required to make 91 RON fuel 99, it would be most helpful. 

 

Thanks for your time and suggestions guys!

I don't know "toulene"; there is an aromatic hydrocarbon called "toluene" that can be used as an octane booster though. Using the correct spelling may help your searches for further information.

 

Having said that, higher octane fuel will only improve running and/or power in a car fitted with a knock sensor, and even then really only helps if you can and do use the higher octane consistently, and that may well not happen with a home-brewed petrol + toluene mixture. If you  look for "race fuel" you'l see just how expensive some of these specialist fuels can be!

1 hour ago, KenONeill said:

I don't know "toulene"; there is an aromatic hydrocarbon called "toluene" that can be used as an octane booster though. Using the correct spelling may help your searches for further information.

Thank you for pointing that out. 

 

1 hour ago, flybynite said:

 

I don't think you are understanding what octane rating is. It is a measure of 'resistance to detonation'. Higher octane has better 'resistance to detonation' so you can advance the ignition and run higher boost pressures to get more power.

 

Putting in higher octane will do nothing (except protect the engine better from detonation) without the map making use of it.

 

What the engine will do with 98,99,100,101 etc is completely down to what is written in the map you are using.

 

Only person to know that will be the one who wrote your map

Mate, I believe i have already stated my accessablilty to octane rating specific maps above. I believe you get a 20hp bump or so going from 91 RON to 99 RON, with an appropriate map of course, which is what i am looking for. 

 

No offence guys but i feel everyone is entitled to an opinion but this thread is going off topic. I guess ill have to figure this one out myself. Will post my findings for anyone wanting to see the results of "Toluene". Thank you for your time.

Can you clarify your calculation in the first post, cos what you've written doesn't make sense to me?

Don't you need to do a weighted average of the octane numbers, according to the volume proportions?

Edited 26 December, 20196 yr by Wino

38 minutes ago, Wino said:

Can you clarify your calculation in the first post, cos what you've written doesn't make sense to me?

Don't you need to do a weighted average of the octane numbers, according to the volume proportions?

I'm not clear on mixtures involving toluene. If we were just mixing iso-octane (which is 100RON) and heptane (0RON), then yes.

0.3*114 + 0.7*91 = 97.9

 

16 hours ago, Wino said:

0.3*114 + 0.7*91 = 97.9

 

Thanks Wino for the volumetric calculation, exactly what i was looking for, will try and report back here.

First of all you seem to have no clue what the RON, or octane number means. A simple search and read perhaps of Wikipedia will enlighten you. 

Save your rupees, avoid a nasty chemical accident or fire or poisoning or environmental crime, and forget about the toluene. 

Edited 27 December, 20196 yr by TDIum

1 hour ago, TDIum said:

First of all you seem to have no clue what the RON, or octane number means. A simple search and read perhaps of Wikipedia will enlighten you. 

Save your rupees, avoid a nasty chemical accident or fire or poisoning or environmental crime, and forget about the toluene. 

Too late, already cruising with it in the tank. Quite the detective aren’t you? Or just uniformed. It’s quite astounding to see the how small the envelope of your mind is to the unknown and how averse you are to actually reading about the subject matter of what I had asked. Formula 1, NASCAR, etc. all USE Toluene, I think upto 70% volume in their tanks, at their peak. It is used regularly by the petroleum refineries world over, and forms up to nearly 80% vol. of certain octane boosters (other brands of Octane boosters use different aromatics/hydro carbons, Toluene being a direct substitute). Your current tank of gas can have up to 25% of toluene or like hydrocarbons designed to be part of the mix constituting the fuel. Read up, wiki might help. 

Secondly, it takes a bit more effort to increase the performance of a mass-produced car engine, that merely sticking something in the fuel tank. Even filling up with the most expensive high-octane petrol will make very little difference. You may see a slight loss of power at the very top end when not using the best fuel. But guess what? Your car is designed to run on a wide range of fuels according to the market it was sold into. So luckily no need to go sploshing highly flammable fuel additives around. 

My highly constrained mind simply cannot grasp why the **** you are bothering. 

24 minutes ago, TDIum said:

sploshing highly flammable fuel

You mean like, say, 95RON "petrol"?

i'm assuming he gets petrol from a pump. I don't even want to know how he gets his toluene let alone what he keeps it in. 

@TinkerBoy - Unlike some of the other respondents in this thread, I am aware of race fuel. I'm also (as upthread) aware I don't know enough about it to brew my own! What I am aware of is that race tuners buy from, say, Pennzol, rather than home brewing, and build engines to suit the characteristics of their preferred brand.

2 minutes ago, TDIum said:

he gets petrol from a pump. I don't even want to know how he gets his toluene

Likely guess.

 

No idea either, but my point was that iso-octane is a "highly flammable substance", at least compared with citane.

Standard tsi's love the Super Unleaded pump fuels on Continental Europe at 100 ron +

The 95, 97 & 99 Ron in the UK is the Min octane. and the Tesco Momentum 99 can sometimes be 100 octane plus.

 

A standard 1.4 TSI Fabia vRS knows very well when you put Hiperflo 250 or any of the other Racing Fuels in, remapped even more so.

As it is just allow for the economy as though you are running a car that gets 12-20 mpg.  It is more smiles per miles on special days.

http://vitalequipment.co.uk/collections/carless-hiperflo

 

 

3 hours ago, TinkerBoy said:

Too late, already cruising with it in the tank. Quite the detective aren’t you? Or just uniformed. It’s quite astounding to see the how small the envelope of your mind is to the unknown and how averse you are to actually reading about the subject matter of what I had asked. Formula 1, NASCAR, etc. all USE Toluene, I think upto 70% volume in their tanks, at their peak. It is used regularly by the petroleum refineries world over, and forms up to nearly 80% vol. of certain octane boosters (other brands of Octane boosters use different aromatics/hydro carbons, Toluene being a direct substitute). Your current tank of gas can have up to 25% of toluene or like hydrocarbons designed to be part of the mix constituting the fuel. Read up, wiki might help. 

Actually Formula 1 does not use Toluene in their fuel, the rule is VERY VERY strict and must be "fuel only avaliable at everyday pumps upto 100 octane rating" 

Liked the suggestions and input, I am not completely aware of race fuels, will read more on the subject. Will opt for better pump fuel, than store a fire hazard. Did notice the difference though in power at the top end, but will keep my feet on the ground.