Torsion Beam rear end Estate handling

[Gerrycan]

6 hours ago, Kental said:

 

Even the steering feels detached so I hope it is a bad example.  If I had hired this prior to me looking at an Octavia for lease, I would have discounted it out of hand.  It shows the advice to hire a car as an extended test drive before you commit can easily give a false negative.

Well known that Octavia are particularly sensitive to the tyres fitted. Throw in the unknowns of tyre pressure and tracking being way out due to hire misuse.

Just fitting my spacesaver 16 inch spare makes my car almost unendurable at any speed.

[logiclee]

10 hours ago, Kental said:

 

3.0 V6 was that a 220? My boss at the time had a 2.5 V6 with the Volvo gearbox. 

 

I had both the ST220 and later a 3.0V6 GhiaX. I needed to tow and the ST220 can't tow.

 

Mechanically the ST220 and 3.0V6 GhiaX / TitaniumX are very similar. Same engine, gearbox, brakes, steering etc. The standard 3.0V6 had a 6 into 1 exhaust with single Cat and three silencers. The ST220 had 6 into 2 exhaust and each exhaust had a sports cat and two free flowing silencers. It was the exhaust that released the extra 20PS over the standard 3.0. To be honest it was only at the very top of the rev range at 5500 - 6500rpm that you felt any difference. 

A panel filter and performance exhaust on the standard 3.0 would give you similar figures to the ST220.

 

I've had much more powerful and much faster cars but that drive train in the relatively light Mk3 Mondeo was something special. The gearing was quite low (6th around 30mph/1000rpm) and the big normally aspirated V6 would pull smoothly from just above tickover. In normal driving it was happy to slow to 30mph in 6th then pull all the way to 155mph. It wasn't push you back in the seat fast but instant throttle response, smooth pull at any rpm and that burbly soundtrack made for a great drive.

 

Clarkson said "Every time I drive one of these I wonder why we buy anything else"   

 

 

[MC Bodge]

I drove our old Fiesta today. Bumpy motorway commute. The ride is so much more controlled and comfortable, the steering so much more positive, with much better feedback than the Octavia -It is a 14 year old shopping car.... 

 

The Octavia chassis is such a let-down. 

[Gerrycan]

You sure your transport blocks have removed?

[logiclee]

Just now, Gerrycan said:

You sure your transport blocks have removed?

 

I agree with Bodge, the Octavia is not settled with high speed bumps and ridges. A modern car shouldn't transmit the thuds and noise into the cabin from ridges and poor surfaces either.

[MC Bodge]

22 minutes ago, Gerrycan said:

You sure your transport blocks have removed?

I am. I have looked closely at the suspension and checked shortly after I got the car.

 

It is just a fundamental issue with the design. It is better over big bumps. 

[Kental]

5 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

I had both the ST220 and later a 3.0V6 GhiaX. I needed to tow and the ST220 can't tow.

 

Mechanically the ST220 and 3.0V6 GhiaX / TitaniumX are very similar. Same engine, gearbox, brakes, steering etc. The standard 3.0V6 had a 6 into 1 exhaust with single Cat and three silencers. The ST220 had 6 into 2 exhaust and each exhaust had a sports cat and two free flowing silencers. It was the exhaust that released the extra 20PS over the standard 3.0. To be honest it was only at the very top of the rev range at 5500 - 6500rpm that you felt any difference. 

A panel filter and performance exhaust on the standard 3.0 would give you similar figures to the ST220.

 

I've had much more powerful and much faster cars but that drive train in the relatively light Mk3 Mondeo was something special. The gearing was quite low (6th around 30mph/1000rpm) and the big normally aspirated V6 would pull smoothly from just above tickover. In normal driving it was happy to slow to 30mph in 6th then pull all the way to 155mph. It wasn't push you back in the seat fast but instant throttle response, smooth pull at any rpm and that burbly soundtrack made for a great drive.

 

Clarkson said "Every time I drive one of these I wonder why we buy anything else"   

 

 

 

Very nice, I didn't realise there was a 2.5 V6 and a 3.0 V6 in the non St models.  Such a shame everything is going 4cyl inline these days.

Edited 8 January, 2020 by Kental

[logiclee]

4 minutes ago, Kental said:

 

Very nice, I didn't realise there was a 2.5 V6 and a 3.0 V6 in the non St models.  Such a shame everything is going 4cyl inline these days.

 

My old GhiaX.

 

 

[Kental]

And bonnet struts!!!!  They went after the mk3!!!!

[MC Bodge]

3 hours ago, Kental said:

And bonnet struts!!!!  They went after the mk3!!!!

Yes. I was disappointed to discover that on my Mk4.

 

Presumably de-scoped as few people ever lift their bonnets other than to fill the screenwash. 

[MC Bodge]

My wife has been driving my Octavia a bit on longer journeys this week and got back into her (old) Fiesta yesterday. 

 

She is not in the slightest bit interested in cars, but she mentioned in passing that,

 

"The steering in your car isn't very sharp is it?  I noticed when I got back into the Fiesta that the Fiesta steering was heavier, but you could sort of feel it more and the car turned more easily" 

 

QED. 

 

 

Edited 17 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[Kental]

Our other car is a brand new Fiesta 1.1 85 ps. It has no power or torque but brilliant steering and a very supple ride without making the handling soggy.

[Ju1ian1001]

Any vehicle with a proper hydraulic power steering setup will instantly feel much sharper, quicker on lock to lock, just much much better. i find all electric setups ether electro-hydraulic or electric-mechanical feels numb and mostly over or under assisted.

 

The MK3 Octavia steering feels ever so slightly better then the MK2 Octavia though (or it maybe the fact my one is perfectly wheel aligned, took me ages to do)

[MarkyG82]

51 minutes ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

 

The MK3 Octavia steering feels ever so slightly better then the MK2 Octavia though (or it maybe the fact my one is perfectly wheel aligned, took me ages to do)

 

Did you do it yourself? If so, any tips?

 

I found my mk2 to be quite good even on 16" wheels.

[Ju1ian1001]

20 minutes ago, MarkyG82 said:

 

Did you do it yourself? If so, any tips?

 

I found my mk2 to be quite good even on 16" wheels.

Yep did it myself, as for tips have a 4 post ramp handy and a £9000 worth of wheel alignment equipment handy (did it work when we were quite) our equipment is very similar to the hunter setup the our competitor uses (the initals K and F should give some idea of our competitor) oh and take your time, our equipment is very sensitive.

Edited 17 January, 2020 by Ju1ian1001

[Ootohere]

The steering assist can be reduced or increased. Available for changing for 'Disabled' who might want more assistance, as the brake assistance can be reset from the factory setting.

[MC Bodge]

9 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

The steering assist can be reduced or increased. Available for changing for 'Disabled' who might want more assistance, as the brake assistance can be reset from the factory setting.

The Octavia steering mode can be changed, but I found that the "performance" setting just made it feel artificially heavier, but not better. 

 

I have the throttle response set to performance. 

[MC Bodge]

9 hours ago, Ju1ian1001 said:

Yep did it myself, as for tips have a 4 post ramp handy and a £9000 worth of wheel alignment equipment handy (did it work when we were quite) our equipment is very similar to the hunter setup the our competitor uses (the initals K and F should give some idea of our competitor) oh and take your time, our equipment is very sensitive.

You can only adjust the front wheels? What settings did you use?

 

(It feels to me that the rear geometry is the problem) 

 

Thanks. 

 

 

[Ju1ian1001]

9 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

You can only adjust the front wheels? What settings did you use?

 

(It feels to me that the rear geometry is the problem) 

 

Thanks. 

 

 

Yep only front geometry can be adjusted, our equipment shows on screen camber, castor and toe in-toe out, plus it shows this for the back end as well, my camber was spot on but toe-out was out and in the red on both sides, now in the green (when we print out the results for customers it shows the degrees and a graph that goes red, light green,dark green,light green,red on both sides, we aim to get it set in the middle of the dark green) didn't do print outs for my own car. the specs are in a database, just type in the manufacture and engine code/ model code and brings up the right settings to use for said vehicle.

 

It's clever stuff, we have only had it since

November so still getting used to it.

[MC Bodge]

On 18/01/2020 at 18:02, Ju1ian1001 said:

Yep only front geometry can be adjusted, our equipment shows on screen camber, castor and toe in-toe out, plus it shows this for the back end as well, my camber was spot on but toe-out was out and in the red on both sides, now in the green (when we print out the results for customers it shows the degrees and a graph that goes red, light green,dark green,light green,red on both sides, we aim to get it set in the middle of the dark green) didn't do print outs for my own car. the specs are in a database, just type in the manufacture and engine code/ model code and brings up the right settings to use for said vehicle.

 

It's clever stuff, we have only had it since

November so still getting used to it.

Did you use standard book settings? 

[MC Bodge]

I had the opportunity for a cross country drive earlier. 

 

The 1.4TSI engine really is good for A/B road overtaking up to sensible speeds. 

 

The back end of the car really does let the side down. The rear suspension "collapses" under moderately hard cornering (it reminds me a little of an old Mk3 Cavalier or Mk3 Fiesta, albeit with a much better front end than the Cavalier)

 

 

[StriderDog]

After having a Mondeo with full independent suspension I have to say that the 16 plate Otcy estate is awful. I've also got the DSG and the two together make for a horrible combination of body roll, insecure rolling junctions and rounderbouts. My Mrs has said a few times that although she really likes the Octy the Ford was much more civilized on the road.

 

[MC Bodge]

6 minutes ago, StriderDog said:

After having a Mondeo with full independent suspension I have to say that the 16 plate Otcy estate is awful. I've also got the DSG and the two together make for a horrible combination of body roll, insecure rolling junctions and rounderbouts. My Mrs has said a few times that although she really likes the Octy the Ford was much more civilized on the road.

 

I concur.

 

On a smooth, straight road, the Octavia is fine, but throw in bumps, ripples and bends..... 

 

It annoys me more than it should, but my Mk1 Mondeo of the mid 90s had a better chassis. 

 

I should have bought a 1.5 Ecoboost Focus estate, even if the boot was smaller

 

Edited 25 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[Ju1ian1001]

59 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

Did you use standard book settings? 

Yeah standard book settings, they held on a database in the equipents computer, the database is provided by AutoData.

[Kental]

4 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

I concur.

 

On a smooth, straight road, the Octavia is fine, but throw in bumps, ripples and bends..... 

 

It annoys me more than it should, but my Mk1 Mondeo of the mid 90s had a better chassis. 

 

I should have bought a 1.5 Ecoboost Focus estate, even if the boot was smaller

 

 

My hatch really isn't that bad, very surprised how much better than the 18 plate hire car estate I was given earlier in the month. Strange how so similar cars can be so different.