Torsion Beam rear end Estate handling

[MC Bodge]

4 hours ago, logiclee said:

 

Yep agree. The torsion beam works better but not well in the Golf but it has a shorter wheelbase and a much shorter overhang.  The torsion beam in the Octy has to control a much fatter ar5e.

 

I've had a loaner with 16's and while it does negate some of the crashiness the noise, thudding and poor handling remain. Mine was a SEL on 17's but I did try an L&K on 18's and the ride was shocking.

My current car has 19's and while firm there's no crashiness and no noise.

 

On the Mk2 there was little tech but decent ride/handling and insulation. On the Mk3 I think they used all the MQB tech and infotainment but the cost saving came on the mechanicals and insulation.

 

Yes. The cost savings were on the chassis and brakes. 

 

The engine is brilliant, the interior is good enough for me, the seats are comfortable, even if the satnav (rarely used) feels a bit clunky compared with google maps. The boot is big and it looks fine. The headlight main beams aren't anything special. 

 

I took mine for a test drive of a few miles, albeit in very heavy rain, and didn't notice the ride and handling issues. I was probably concentrating too much on the engine - wondering if a 1.4 petrol would be enough, and the car felt newer than my old worn out car. I noticed the boom/noise, handling and ride issues the day after I bought it.... 

 

The car would suit a lot of people, but it is the only car I've owned that I do not enjoy driving and I've not gelled with it after almost a year. 

 

I made a mistake with my choice.

Edited 28 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[MC Bodge]

18 minutes ago, Scot5 said:

 

Inexcusable?  After reading the above post that's very similer to the word I'd use to describe someone who obviously likes 'enjoying' their car but apparently didn't take it on a test drive before buying it. Or if they did take it on a test drive, they didn't take it on the roads they typically drive on.

 

Exactly who's at fault - Skoda or the buyer?  If you want a car that drives like a Ford - buy a Ford. If you want a car that drives like an Astra, buy an Astra.

 

 

 

 

I want a car that drives and has a boot like a Mk3 Mondeo estate, but with a TSI 150 engine (The Mk4 Mondeo was unnecessarily and excessively large) . 

 

It doesn't exist.

 

I will take any future car I consider buying on a more thorough test drive, if possible. I had been spoilt by my previous cars all being good handling. 25 years of mostly Ford. 

Edited 28 January, 2020 by MC Bodge

[fabdavrav]

6 hours ago, MC Bodge said:

Possibly, but Auto Trader shows mostly 123bhp ones. I would want a 150.

 

A Passat or Superb could be an alternative, although I do like the more compact size of the Octavia.

 

The 140/150 bhp 1.4lt & 1.5lt EVO engines were only available on the GT & GT Edition spec Golfs...

 

Find below 55 Golf Estates with the above engine on the VW used cars website...

 

https://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/en/used-cars/volkswagen/model-search?country=gb&lat=57.507049560547&lon=-4.2624101638794&unitSystem=imperial&currency=GBP&customer=&mkey=47-11272-558||47-11269-350&sort=distance%3AASC&groupTrim=1&mcategory=all&zip=IV1&radius=8047&price_from=&price_to=29600&km_from=&km_to=&reg_date_from=2012&reg_date_to=&doors_grouped=5&cylinderCapacity_to=1600&gears=&drive=1&kw_from=130&gas=1||7&consCombined_from=&vehiclestatus=&manufacturer=65&trim=2900%3AGT%3BGT+Edition

[MC Bodge]

7 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

The 140/150 bhp 1.4lt & 1.5lt EVO engines were only available on the GT & GT Edition spec Golfs...

 

Find below 55 Golf Estates with the above engine on the VW used cars website...

 

https://usedcars.volkswagen.co.uk/en/used-cars/volkswagen/model-search?country=gb&lat=57.507049560547&lon=-4.2624101638794&unitSystem=imperial&currency=GBP&customer=&mkey=47-11272-558||47-11269-350&sort=distance%3AASC&groupTrim=1&mcategory=all&zip=IV1&radius=8047&price_from=&price_to=29600&km_from=&km_to=&reg_date_from=2012&reg_date_to=&doors_grouped=5&cylinderCapacity_to=1600&gears=&drive=1&kw_from=130&gas=1||7&consCombined_from=&vehiclestatus=&manufacturer=65&trim=2900%3AGT%3BGT+Edition

It would be interesting to try one. I don't have high expectations of another MQB, though. 

[fabdavrav]

3 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

It would be interesting to try one. I don't have high expectations of another MQB, though. 

 

Some 130BHP have been made in the GT spec..so make 100% certain its a 140/150BHP.....

 

I love mine....handles very well, & is quite "chuckable" for a car that's a Golf hatch with 1ft added after the rear axle...which makes for better front rear weight distribution....

 

GT spec got lower sports suspension & the GTI front ARB...…& considering I've driven many VAG cars over the years (do a bit of freelance servicing)…..& my old Fabia ran on Konis, & fully poly bushed suspension with thicker front ARBs....I thought I would be "downgrading"....

 

How wrong I was!.....& my engine makes 167bhp & 267Nm..without a tune...so quite quick for the size...

[MC Bodge]

11 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Some 130BHP have been made in the GT spec..so make 100% certain its a 140/150BHP.....

 

I love mine....handles very well, & is quite "chuckable" for a car that's a Golf hatch with 1ft added after the rear axle...which makes for better front rear weight distribution....

 

GT spec got lower sports suspension & the GTI front ARB...…& considering I've driven many VAG cars over the years (do a bit of freelance servicing)…..& my old Fabia ran on Konis, & fully poly bushed suspension with thicker front ARBs....I thought I would be "downgrading"....

 

How wrong I was!.....& my engine makes 167bhp & 267Nm..without a tune...so quite quick for the size...

That's interesting, thanks. 

[fabdavrav]

6 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

That's interesting, thanks. 

 

Just remember the MK3 Octavia is 4inches longer overall than the Golf MK7 estate....& 2 of those inches are in the wheelbase..less rear leg room in the Golf....

[MC Bodge]

9 minutes ago, fabdavrav said:

 

Just remember the MK3 Octavia is 4inches longer overall than the Golf MK7 estate....& 2 of those inches are in the wheelbase..less rear leg room in the Golf....

Hmm. The Octavia is a handy size for carrying luggage, furniture etc. I wouldn't want a shorter car... 

 

 

[logiclee]

1 hour ago, Scot5 said:

 

Inexcusable?  After reading the above post that's very similer to the word I'd use to describe someone who obviously likes 'enjoying' their car but apparently didn't take it on a test drive before buying it. Or if they did take it on a test drive, they didn't take it on the roads they typically drive on.

 

Exactly who's at fault - Skoda or the buyer?  If you want a car that drives like a Ford - buy a Ford. If you want a car that drives like an Astra, buy an Astra.

 

 

 

 

 

After 13 Skoda's and 3 Octavia's each one better than the last you could say I was pretty confident in the product and made an assumption about the "New" model.

 

I don''t kick myself for that but I do for not swapping it within the first 30 days when I could have. I could have saved myself over a year of not being happy with the car and having to put up with the dire reliability. All known MQB issues.

Wheel Bearings

Coolant issues

DSG lever x2

Clutch Pack x2

Mechatronics.

Buzzing at 1000-1200rpm (VW fix, Skoda "They all do that sir")

Faults which introduced a dash rattle and a grinding on full left lock.

Also Columbus screen becoming unresponsive in cold weather

[Kental]

2300 miles in mine in 2 months

 

Already spent a day off the road with a faulty fuel pressure sensor.  Diagnosed and fixed (the next day) in my works car park (a Mitsubishi dealer so a little ribbing from colleagues) however I heartily recommend Skoda Assist (VAG Assist) as they have technicians who are familiar with the cars and carry all the latest specific diagnostic equipment.  As they are more specific than AA or RAC for example they can carry correct parts rather than generic bits and their knowledge is geared to the products rather than having to know a little about every car on the road.  They also arranged for a hire car (I was collected from work so reduced inconvenience) and they collected it from my work when I was done with it.

Faults happen, but if they are all dealt with causing as little inconvenience as that one, it is no real hardship.  It also allowed me to drive an estate so I can understand the issues on this thread.

Hatch with Torsion Beam acceptable (but not great), Estate with the firmer springs, from my experience I would now avoid without a very thorough test drive.

Interestingly according to Autocar Ford have now dropped IRS from all petrol Focus hatches except ST, yet the estate still has IRS, at the launch of the mk4 having IRS on 1.5 petrol hatches & torsion beam on 1.0 hatches.

[MC Bodge]

2 hours ago, Kental said:

Interestingly according to Autocar Ford have now dropped IRS from all petrol Focus hatches except ST, yet the estate still has IRS, at the launch of the mk4 having IRS on 1.5 petrol hatches & torsion beam on 1.0 hatches.

That's a shame, although the Ford torsion beam cars are much better than the Octavia. 

 

I suppose most drivers would never notice the difference anyway. 

[Kental]

18 minutes ago, MC Bodge said:

That's a shame, although the Ford torsion beam cars are much better than the Octavia. 

 

I suppose most drivers would never notice the difference anyway. 

 

Interestingly the Scala that is on MQB0 is said to have a better ride than the Octavia.  MQB0 is torsion beam only rather than either or. I also 2 years ago I drove a Golf 1.0 with torsion beam and it felt more composed than the Octavia. Maybe it was the shorter overhang or that VW have upgraded parts.

[MC Bodge]

5 minutes ago, Kental said:

 

Interestingly the Scala that is on MQB0 is said to have a better ride than the Octavia.  MQB0 is torsion beam only rather than either or. I also 2 years ago I drove a Golf 1.0 with torsion beam and it felt more composed than the Octavia. Maybe it was the shorter overhang or that VW have upgraded parts.

I assume that the Octavia eastate with torsion beam wasn't developed extensively as it could have been. It may have been designed for the Golf and then just used on the Octavia. The chassis engineering dept will have known it wasn't very good. Maybe the Scala has been developed more after the poor feedback about the Octavia. 

[Kental]

1 minute ago, MC Bodge said:

I assume that the Octavia eastate with torsion beam wasn't developed extensively as it could have been. It may have been designed for the Golf and then just used on the Octavia. The chassis engineering dept will have known it wasn't very good. Maybe the Scala has been developed more after the poor feedback about the Octavia. 

 

Doubt it was poor feedback, as was said 99% + of people wouldn't care.  Out of interest has anyone driven a Seat Leon that has torsion beam until 180ps.

[MarkyG82]

Is the mqb0 the same as fabia/polo? Do any of them have IRS?

[Ootohere]

A 2.0 TSI Polo GTI / GTI+ has.

[MC Bodge]

9 hours ago, Kental said:

 

Doubt it was poor feedback, as was said 99% + of people wouldn't care.  Out of interest has anyone driven a Seat Leon that has torsion beam until 180ps.

Had they carried out a focus group with various cars back to back, there would have been negative feedback. 

[flybynite]

9 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

A 2.0 TSI Polo GTI / GTI+ has.

 

Not so sure about that. Better torsion beam is one of the improvements touted over the old 1.8 GTI

"Front lateral stiffness is up by 55 per cent over the old GTI, and the bespoke twist-beam rear-axle is 60 per cent stiffer"

Pinch of salt though, can't believe all you read and have not looked under one in the flesh.

 

Don't know if it is chicken or egg but it is obvious whoever decided what RARB to put on mine was involved in setting the stiffness for the rear torsion beam. They thought having a weak back end on an estate was a good idea. I went from 16mm to 22mm RARB just to make it feel normal. We are not talking wild oversteer here, it just drives without the glaring problem it had from new.

 

Obviously you can't always translate from one car or suspension setup to another but I would think a 60% stiffer torsion beam would go a long way to solving the problem.

 

Only thing I can think of is they had to go that weak to avoid some other issue with the handling somewhere else.

 

 

[KenONeill]

17 hours ago, Scot5 said:

If you want a car that drives like an Astra, buy

...a DFS sofa!

[Ootohere]

@flybynite

You will be right, so i will guess that a S1 had.  Might as well be wrong twice.

 

 

Edited 29 January, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[Kental]

14 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

Is the mqb0 the same as fabia/polo? Do any of them have IRS?

 

Fabia is still on old platform, Polo, Ibiza, A1,  Arona, T Cross & Scala are now on MQB0.

Edited 29 January, 2020 by Kental

[Kental]

2 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

@flybynite

You will be right, so i will guess that a S1 had.  Might as well be wrong twice.

 

 

 

The S1 was on the old platform and was 4x4 from memory so I think was IRS.

[Ootohere]

Yes it was the platform for the Fabia, Polo & Ibiza that got a bit of an unpdate in 2014 then modified to be AWD

 

 

Edited 29 January, 2020 by Roottootemblowinootsoot

[MC Bodge]

5 hours ago, KenONeill said:

...a DFS sofa!

To be honest, if the Astra drives better, I'd consider one. 

[MC Bodge]

5 hours ago, Roottootemblowinootsoot said:

Yes it was the platform for the Fabia, Polo & Ibiza that got a bit of an unpdate in 2014 then modified to be AWD

 

 

I do wish they wouldn't put such big wheels on cars