Water Mains supply leak

[Frenchtone]

^^ the meter was probably installed to ease public/private probs  --  a little sneaky methinks

[Tilt]

25 minutes ago, john999boy said:

My point was that if the leak is prior to your meter then it should be down to Severn Trent to rectify. 👍

Do you know why the pavement meter was installed in addition to the 3 individual ones?

 

Pavement meter installed so they can pass on responsibility, as mentioned earlier, and the individual meters for billing individually............

 

3 hours ago, Tilt said:

Their paperwork indicates that responsibility lies with the homeowners, logically too, as they (the water co) have to go through legal channels firstly before they can even touch the leak, if on private land.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Tilt said:

@john999boy @gadgetmanRegarding that ^^^ post john, I get what you say, and .........I guess that is why it has a governing meter in the pavement then, so they can pass on responsibility, 

 

 

[Tilt]

To be fair, it is illogical (as I mentioned earlier), that it would be the water companies responsibility if on private land as how would they even get access if on my back garden.

Hence why they have to go through legal channels.........

 

Imagine some jumped up schmuck................The water company has been on my property to repair a leak. Well, they've damaged my brand new lawn, put a hole in my shed, scratched my car, damaged m decking, killed George (my little gnome) and he was a collectors item worth thousands............

 

Ok, I don't have a gnome, but you catch my drift, surely.....

 

I know you guys are only trying to help, but if you look at the picture of their leaflet it's reasonably explained.

They will fix it if the customers don't, (after their legal processes) but it will be when they get around to it, and the cost of the water being lost will be added to the customers water bills.........

[Tilt]

20 minutes ago, Frenchtone said:

^^ the meter was probably installed to ease the water companies probs  --  and make them the public/private problem instead.  a little sneaky methinks

 

[Frenchtone]

But, were all 4 houses originally council properties?

When bought from the council was any mention made of the public/private status of the supply in the property deeds, should have been!

[J.R.]

1 hour ago, Tilt said:

I know you guys are only trying to help, but if you look at the picture of their leaflet it's reasonably explained.

They will fix it if the customers don't, (after their legal processes) but it will be when they get around to it, and the cost of the water being lost will be added to the customers water bills.........

 

I think that most people were thinking along the same lines as me, the diagram explains it well, the above explains pragmatically what will happen if you & the neighbours dont get your **** together, what I do question is the billing of the water lost split amongst the owners, legally possibly under certain circumstances they could but I think its just a hollow threat so that they can gain access & repair their leak unless it is after one of your neighbours meters or within the council house and in that case the neighbours or the council would be responsable.

 

Imagine if it were a huge leak under your garden and you are refusing them access because of your gnomes or maybe the swimming pool you constructed and tapped into the main to refill, they aint going to be billing the neighbours a third or quarter of the water lost.

 

In your shoes I would get your neighbours to do the same checks as you accepting the insouciance of the council tenant, if they are all clean then write individually or collectively giving them permission to find and repair their leak

Edited 26 April, 2020 by J.R.

[Tilt]

 

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

 

but I think its just a hollow threat so that they can gain access & repair their leak 

They haven't even mentioned the lost water cost cept a tiny mention in the letter..........you did though, if it was individual........and they aren't even trying to get access. they want us to sort it. I think they are too busy, aside of the legal process and extra cost of this I guess, passed on to us probably.

 

Imagine if it were a huge leak under your garden and you are refusing them access because of your gnomes or maybe the swimming pool you constructed and tapped into the main to refill, they aint going to be billing the neighbours a third or quarter of the water lost.

This scenario (or anything similar) goes without saying..........if losses can be proven to a particular property, then they will charge just that property obviously.

 

Quote

 

In your shoes I would get your neighbours to do the same checks as you accepting the insouciance of the council tenant, if they are all clean then write individually or collectively giving them permission to find and repair their leak

 

I still think they would have to go through their legal process, certainly for the council one, and they will want to do all properties at once. They have to, to be able to narrow the leak to a small area.

 

I have looked on other water sites too, and similar situation. SE water for instance offer % discounts for losses depending how long it takes for the customer to fix. 60% or 30% or no discount at all if over 90 days. SE water do offer a leak detection service to consumers though and the first hour is free.

 

ST water however unfortunately do not offer this service as advised in an email. They work the losses on readings somehow, taken 14 days apart.

 

Cheers.

Edited 26 April, 2020 by Tilt

[J.R.]

They haven't even mentioned the lost water cost cept a tiny mention in the letter..........you did though

 

Or your original before editting that was sent to me as a notification:

 

They haven't even mentioned the lost water cost..........you did though

 

I was only going by what you had already written!

 

 

and the cost of the water being lost will be added to the customers water bills.........

Edited 26 April, 2020 by J.R.

[Tilt]

On 25/04/2020 at 15:38, J.R. said:

 

If its yours then you need to get it fixed pronto, 250l/hour 24/7 is going to cost you big time.

 

 

16 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

I was only going by what you had already written! .....................not true.

 

 

and the cost of the water being lost will be added to the customers water bills.........

 

Sorry, but you brought up the water loss costs before I even mentioned it..............see the above quote you posted on Saturday.

 

The writing that you have put that was taken from a post of mine (in blue, rather than the actual quote itself) 

19 hours ago, Tilt said:

and the cost of the water being lost will be added to the customers water bills.........

 

was posted by me on Sunday. Fairly sure I didn't mention it before that.

 

[J.R.]

Its depressing when you try to help someone and the thanks you get are this sort of rubbish.

 

21 hours ago I spoke of their threat to bill the customers mentioned by you at the end of your posting 3 before and 3 hours before which you now say that you never said, that it was me that first said it, bla bla bla ..........................

 

Good luck with your problem, this wont stop me from helping others in the future.

[Tilt]

First of all JR, I do appreciate everybody's help.

 

23 hours ago, J.R. said:

 

 but I think its just a hollow threat so that they can gain access & repair their leak

 

 

I just think it was a bit confusing that is all, you saying you think it is a hollow threat, as you  were definitely the first to mention water loss costs.

 

ie.....from you, a warning it is going to cost big time, in your very first post, but saying you think it is a hollow threat coming from them...... Sorry but contradictory imo.

 

Mainly, I was trying to point out that they had not made any threats and hardly even mentioned about the cost of water loss except a tiny mention in their original paperwork, of which I had not made aware to anyone at the point you brought it up in your very first post..

 

No offence on this matter was intended.

 

 

[Tilt]

https://www.southeas****er.co.uk/media/1389/sew_cofp_leaks_from_customers_supply-pipes.pdf

 

A little more info from another (better / more helpful imo) water company.

[FirstAndLastSkoda]

Short Answer

 

Have any of the parties involved tried contacting their home insurer to see if they are covered for this?

 

Long Answer

 

When I moved into my current property 10 years ago we were advised by our local water authority to take out Plumbing and Drainage Cover primarily due to the layout of my property; 130 year old ground floor tenement flat with a 30 year old two storey house extension, the amount of land we had, the original property had been modified so many times over the 130 years, and the fact I worked away from home for prolonged periods, etcetera.

 

Anyway, one year the premium for this cover practically doubled so I looked at alternative cover.  Eventually spoke to someone at the water authorities helpdesk who suggested I speak with my home insurer to see if they offered the same cover, which they did.  So I cancelled the Home Serve P&DC, however, it remains to be seen if this is going to bite me in the proverbial if I ever have to put it to the test!

 

HTH,

 

FALS.

 

 

[moley]

error

 

 

Edited 28 April, 2020 by moley
Posted in wrong section

[Tilt]

Firstly, if @J.R. is still talking to me, I will apologise for any mix up in previous posts. I apologise for saying 'not true' as a possible misinterpretation on my behalf.

 

What I have posted re water loss charges is correct based on the information I had to hand at the time. Confusing, as they mention the following, taken from the original paperwork they sent.

"If you're a metered customer and the leak is repaired within 14 days you may be able to apply for a one off claim to cover the additional cost of water and sewerage charges as a result of the leak. So we can get the amount right, we will need you to provide two meter readings, two weeks apart".

 

Well, this following is surprising....................maybe????????????

An excerpt from an email (an advisor at)  the water company sent me in reply to me questioning lost water charges.

 

As your meter is internal, unless the leak is also internal this should have no effect on your bill. We do not charge for the loss of water, the only time we do is if this loss is going past the point of your meter and being recorded.

 

Now firstly, I note the words 'should have no effect'.

Whilst also taking into account the meter in the pavement and the fact that the water is going past the point of a meter, albeit a shared one and therefore is being recorded, although not individually.

 

So question remains...........are they going to write off the water loss costs in full???.........Time will tell I guess.

 

The final letter is being sent out to us in the next few days and then the water company will attend themselves, anything after - ten days after -  the final letter is sent, to find and fix the leak.

The council tenants would not allow us to gain access to their stop tap, saying that it had been boxed in when the council installed their kitchen a few years ago, so we could not do anything ourselves anyway. Bit weird imo.

 

Thanks again for all input.

 

[J.R.]

Yes of course I'm still speaking to you and your response is appreciated!

 

I think i am right in concluding there is a meter that records how much water goes to the "branch line" if you like to the 4 properties, and that you and 2 other neighbours have individual meters, that you have no leak downstream of your metered supply within your property.

 

Are they going to write off the water losses? If the leak is after your neighbours metered supply then they would have to pay the bill for the metered consumption less any rebates that they may allow.

 

If the council tenant does not have a meter then the water company will have to eat the cost whether it is within hs property (I bet its a toilet or cold water tank overflow) or in their water main outside.

 

At least they will stop the wastage and prevent a sinkhole developing.

[SuperbTWM]

You can always contact https://www.ofwat.gov.uk/ if you think there is some foul play regarding what you may be billed for as they are the regulators of all the water companies.

 

 

[Tilt]

Well, finally contractors have been round on Thursday just gone, and the leak is fixed.

It was on the first driveway, so will cost us all, assuming split equally.

 

Apparently, there is lead pipe and going into copper. I'm fairly sure it is copper at rear of mine. Ineed to look into this to see if Severn Trent need to address the lead pipe.

Just waiting for the bill hitting the door mat now.

[moley]

Is lead pipe allowed these days?

[gadgetman]

17 minutes ago, moley said:

Is lead pipe allowed these days?

Still plenty of lead pipes in cities. Mostly only swapped out when they leak 

[skomaz]

2 hours ago, Tilt said:

Well, finally contractors have been round on Thursday just gone, and the leak is fixed.

It was on the first driveway, so will cost us all, assuming split equally.

 

Apparently, there is lead pipe and going into copper. I'm fairly sure it is copper at rear of mine. Ineed to look into this to see if Severn Trent need to address the lead pipe.

Just waiting for the bill hitting the door mat now.

 

At least it's now sorted and only a one off cost split between all of you rather than just on you or an ongoing cost...

[Tilt]

Well, If I'd have known the final cost I would not have been quite so concerned.

Luckily they found the leak easily using their experience, and as it was on the first driveway and the cost was split between the four of us it ended up at just over £200 each..........Not too bad considering.

 

Still a little annoyed though as a person can be billed for something that they cannot do anything about, the leak being caused by a very poorly maintained / really bad condition driveway with broken slabs of concrete, sunken where the ground has given way underneath.

Not their fault, I know, and I know Kelly is in no position to be able to do anything about it.

And it has already been repaired on the driveway before, but must have been before 2001, and before they moved in too.

 

I guess it could happen again with it having a heavy car park on it also, I will email Severn Trent to ask for details on the pipework that was found......

 

Thanks for everyone's input.

[VWD]

Tilt- was the leak caused by a crosing failure of a  passing over a footpath constructed ( and approved ) for the passage of vehicles to gain access to a property. If so ,was the crossing fitted /inspected and approved by relavent highways authority. These days Highways want to check all crossings to ensure that they adhere to the standard, but in years gone by, they were not so particular. Might be a get out clause as in the crossing was not to standard. In my road, we get constant warnings about parking on pavement as in that only properly constituted crossings are considered strong enough to cope with the weight of a vehicle. Obviously this one was not.

Then there's the incidences of LA vehicles either parking on pavements/dropped accesses or using these to negotiate parked cars. I've had LA  threats toned down by threatening to record LA vehicles driving over pavements & dropped access . They mention damage by cars, I respond by asking just how much more sever damage is done by 3.5T vans and 7.5 and over trucks and Bin Wagons.

Edited 8 June, 2020 by VWD

[Tilt]

@VWD No, it was halfway up the drive Bud.