Caravans / towing limits advice?

[drewellis]

Hi,

 

So after a pretty difficult year which was then followed by this Covid nightmare, I’ve decided to make a few changes in life.

I’m quitting my job in IT to start a vehicle wrapping business amongst other things!

 

We also started looking at camper vans, with a view to touring around the UK and Europe as far as the Spanish coast.

I quickly realised that it’d be necessary to have another vehicle to get around in once set up.

The total cost of a new, posh 2 berth camper van (e.g. Autotrail Tribute) PLUS something like a Citigo etc would be around £60,000....

 

We looked at cheaper options like the Autotrail Adventure which is cool but doesn’t have the floor space for us and 2 little dogs really, and I doubt you can tow anything with a van like that.

 

Now we’ve had a look at a few caravans, and we really like the 2020 Swift Elegance Grande 850 which is around £35,000. It has absolutely tonnes of space for us. Plus, all the rattling nick-nacks will be in the caravan, and not in the same vehicle as me, making me rage.

 

Can my Superb 220 tow a caravan like this? Including a tow bar and all the other bits we’d need would still be well under £40k.

Just hoping I don’t need to buy a better tow car - in that case the Camper van and Citigo would be cheaper!

 

I don’t really understand the towing limits, braked vs unbraked, and whether you can even get a ‘braked’ caravan.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated  

[NJRJ]

4 hours ago, drewellis said:

Hi,

 

So after a pretty difficult year which was then followed by this Covid nightmare, I’ve decided to make a few changes in life.

I’m quitting my job in IT to start a vehicle wrapping business amongst other things!

 

We also started looking at camper vans, with a view to touring around the UK and Europe as far as the Spanish coast.

I quickly realised that it’d be necessary to have another vehicle to get around in once set up.

The total cost of a new, posh 2 berth camper van (e.g. Autotrail Tribute) PLUS something like a Citigo etc would be around £60,000....

 

We looked at cheaper options like the Autotrail Adventure which is cool but doesn’t have the floor space for us and 2 little dogs really, and I doubt you can tow anything with a van like that.

 

Now we’ve had a look at a few caravans, and we really like the 2020 Swift Elegance Grande 850 which is around £35,000. It has absolutely tonnes of space for us. Plus, all the rattling nick-nacks will be in the caravan, and not in the same vehicle as me, making me rage.

 

Can my Superb 220 tow a caravan like this? Including a tow bar and all the other bits we’d need would still be well under £40k.

Just hoping I don’t need to buy a better tow car - in that case the Camper van and Citigo would be cheaper!

 

I don’t really understand the towing limits, braked vs unbraked, and whether you can even get a ‘braked’ caravan.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated  

Anything over 750kg is usually braked as it means more cars can tow one, all caravans of any size will definitely be braked.

 

Most caravan organisations recommend that the caravan only weighs 85% of the towcar so that 'the tail doesn't wag the dog'

Up to 100% may be allowed but is car/engine/model/driver specific.

Note that the towing limit of the car is the weight of the flatbed ballasted trailer the towcar can restart up a 8% (or 12% depending on maker) slope, so is really only a traction figure, it doesn't account for the massive sail like qualities of a big caravan and the joys of that in a side wind, passing articulated lorries etc 🤢

 

Anyone who took their driving test after 1998 will have a limit of 3.5T combined weight unless they take the +E trailer entitlement test.

 

Doesn't look like your car/caravan is a match from this site:-

https://towcar.info/GB/index.php

No exact match for car, or caravan, but it's looking very unlikely with the Grande 650 (lighter?) being too heavy and that's with no luggage (poor loading is what puts cars on their side and all your knickers and socks in the central reservation along with the remaining plywood from your caravan).

Find nearest similar car and correct the suggested weight on website (from door plate - likely not much difference) same for caravan just adjust figures for 2019 650 grande to what you have.

 

 

[drewellis]

Thanks for that, I’ve been reading a lot today! It turns out that instead of us just wanting the biggest caravan available, the Swift Sprite Major 4 EB is plenty big enough. Weight (MTPLM): 1476kg which seems much more sensible.

 

Going to go have a look some point soon and see what the options are all about - satellite TV is not at the top of our list but for some reason it’s around £2000! Air con is £1500 but that might ruin the weight situation.

[unclerichy]

@NJRJ beat me to it

 

I've been caravanning since 2012 now (despite swearing I'd never have such a thing) so allow me to use my best adenoidal voice...

 

• When did you pass your test?
• Have you ever towed before?
• What's the kerb weight of your car (a quick online search suggests 1430kg)?
• What's the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car?
• What's the MTPLM of the prospective caravan?

 

As NJRJ says - if you passed your test after 1st Jan 1997 (https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car) then you will be limited to a total of 3500kg when adding GVW and MTPLM together.  Even if you don't load the car and 'van to their maximums the law uses those numbers and the 3500kg as a limit.  To up that limit you'll need to take a B+E test.

 

Have you ever caravanned before? You might find that you hate it, at which point you've just lost a chunk of cash on a new caravan.  Maybe look at a second hand one that meets your needs to get a feel for it.

 

Fortunately you have a white car so it'll match most caravans 😁

[NJRJ]

My S3 2L 150bhp manual estate is a 'poor' match with that van (90%).

Experienced tower's may go to 100% though I wouldn't even after 20 years of towing - seen too many in bits.

My caravan is an 85% match but is just 1385kg loaded, it's old a Bailey 2004 Auvergne 4/5 berth, the rear 'dinette' used as a permanent bed with custom matress (not daft cushions).

New vans are getting very heavy, nothing newer appeals to us, yet, and other than not having a seperate shower we aren't really missing anything.

 

I'm not sure £60K is enough for a MH with a Citigo as well, is that Hymer dealer still up at Clifton on B'Pool/Preston Road - seriously stupid money they were!

 

Most advice is to rent before buying as it's an expensive mistake to make jumping straight in.

 

Satellite systems for caravans when built in are silly money, you only need a sky dish and tripod (+reciever) for the UK and most of France, in Spain you'll not get a big enough dish inside a caravan, all the ex-pats in winter share a rented 8 foot dish with neighbours, most dishes have an octo (or is it octa?) LNB so 4 vans can plug in and record, or 8 just watching live, Spanish sites ofeten have dish feeds, or sell you hookey IP TV for UK stuff.

[drewellis]

7 hours ago, NJRJ said:

I'm not sure £60K is enough for a MH with a Citigo as well, is that Hymer dealer still up at Clifton on B'Pool/Preston Road - seriously stupid money they were!

 

Most advice is to rent before buying as it's an expensive mistake to make jumping straight in.

 

Satellite systems for caravans when built in are silly money, you only need a sky dish and tripod (+reciever) for the UK and most of France, in Spain you'll not get a big enough dish inside a caravan, all the ex-pats in winter share a rented 8 foot dish with neighbours, most dishes have an octo (or is it octa?) LNB so 4 vans can plug in and record, or 8 just watching live, Spanish sites ofeten have dish feeds, or sell you hookey IP TV for UK stuff.

The MH we were looking at was ~£52K new but we’d definitely rent one for a week or 2 to see whether we like it  

Tbh if we went for it we’d probably look for something similar but used under £45K. Saw this tonight which has the layout we like:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/202002067031164?atmobcid=soc4

We’re off to Preston Caravans & Motorhomes on Thursday to have a look at each option. Whatever we go for it’ll be sub-3500KG and if it’s a caravan I’d rather stay close to 85% but I reckon that’ll be a challenge..

 

Thanks for the satellite info and Spain situation, hadn’t thought of that.

[drewellis]

8 hours ago, unclerichy said:

@NJRJ beat me to it

 

I've been caravanning since 2012 now (despite swearing I'd never have such a thing) so allow me to use my best adenoidal voice...

 

• When did you pass your test?
• Have you ever towed before?
• What's the kerb weight of your car (a quick online search suggests 1430kg)?
• What's the Gross Vehicle Weight (GVW)/Maximum Authorised Mass (MAM) of your car?
• What's the MTPLM of the prospective caravan?

 

As NJRJ says - if you passed your test after 1st Jan 1997 (https://www.gov.uk/towing-with-car) then you will be limited to a total of 3500kg when adding GVW and MTPLM together.  Even if you don't load the car and 'van to their maximums the law uses those numbers and the 3500kg as a limit.  To up that limit you'll need to take a B+E test.

 

Have you ever caravanned before? You might find that you hate it, at which point you've just lost a chunk of cash on a new caravan.  Maybe look at a second hand one that meets your needs to get a feel for it.

 

Fortunately you have a white car so it'll match most caravans 😁

I passed in 2009

I haven’t towed anything at all before

Yes 1430 was what I found too

I think the GVW is 2050KG?

MTPLM of the smaller Swift we like is around 1500KG which I guess is far too heavy 😞

 

MH option is looking more attractive at this point! 

[IJWS15]

In my youth all our holidays were in a caravan but I've only towed one 20 yards (Moving my father's). 

 

My advice is to rent one and take a short UK trip before buying.  Some people (includes SWMBO) can't stand the sound of rain on the roof.  

 

Issues to consider - caravan over a camper

• With a caravan you don't have to pack everything up when you want to go out
• you can get into multi storey car parks when you have left the caravan at the site
• If you tow a small car with the camper (to avoid the second bullet) it is tolled as a trailer
•  

 

 

[MarkTB]

To be sure of the car kerb weight, take it to a public weigh bridge, the book figures can be a fair way off reality. I tow a 2011 Sprite Major 6 with MTPLM up-rated to 1500kg (from 1405kg). Just upgraded from S2 hatch to S3 estate (also had a S1 before that!) and not actually towed with this car yet due to all the current madness, but not got any concerns as the S1 & S2 towed fine and never had any issues.

Edited 24 June, 2020 by MarkTB

[edwards]

I've done a fair bit of towing. I am an old bugger so no need for a separate test but I have towed a lot of things over the years. The S3 handles towing the best of any car I have owned, but I guess plently of power and 4x4 adding weight help. I'll admit towing a caravan is not my favourite thing to do, I find the sail like sides and often weebly springs make them less obedient than, say, the twin axle box trailer. I would urge you to pay careful attention to the loading of the car and the van, use a stabiliser, buy a van with stability control if you can and most importantly take time to build up your skills.

 

Best thing I have towed was a glider trailer - light as a feather but so so long! looked like you were trying to outrun a polaris missile in the rear view mirror

 

[drewellis]

Thanks for all the advice it is greatly appreciated.

 

We went to Preston Caravans yesterday, unfortunately it being our first “look round” one of these places we were disappointed with the lack of help and strange lack of courtesy

 

So we went to Marquis instead, and have ended up falling in love with a new small MH. 
We haven’t committed or anything but after seeing the size of some caravans and the whole weight thing - plus my lack of any towing experience - I don’t think touring caravans are for us. 
 

For those who do tow a caravan, you’ve got some balls. The size and width of some of them is absolutely stupid! 😆😂

Edited 25 June, 2020 by drewellis

[Bigeater]

Yours is 300 brake isn't it now?

Don't forget the 20 odd mpg when you're towing. That's very handy for travelling the world with a van isn't it!

And as someone else has suggested - I wouldn't ever buy a new van - i'd buy one that's a year old and had the warranty work done.

 

My mrs came out with a cracker the other day. She suggested we take our van to Turkey, if we can't get a holiday abroad this year.

ffs I can't get my breath some days.

[drewellis]

Appreciate it isn’t even Skoda related never mind Superb III but to conclude the thread...

 

Today we put a deposit down on a Benimar Mileo 231. 20 plate, just registered on Thursday! It’s a Fiat Ducato cab with proper 9 speed auto box (new model without the horrid robotised “comfortmatic” gearbox). 2.3 litre Diesel engine, 150bhp 💨 

 

There was 4K off in the “sale” but negotiated down another 2K plus them fitting a roll-out side awning included. 

 

The infotainment system looks pretty basic/cheap compared to ours in terms of GUI but it has European camper van sat nav which is cool - you can dial in your dimensions and any onboard hazards (flammable gas etc) and it’ll plot your route making sure you’ll fit / are allowed etc.

Looking at some YouTube vids it also looks like it has Apple CarPlay and Android Auto too which will be a nice bonus if it’s standard. 

 

Full alarm/tracker plus a solar panel that can run the electrics for about 5 days from full before the battery gets low. So we can do a bit of off gridding but I’ve got my 4G router so I can still annoy you all with my posts 😉

 

Thanks again for the advice