42 minutes ago, Llanigraham said:

And all my Yetis used the officially approved oil, so that was a pointless question.

Why was it a pointless question?  I don't know what oil you use?  

1 minute ago, farty said:

Why was it a pointless question?  I don't know what oil you use?  

 

I suggest that you study the qualities of all the specifications of the oils recommended by Skoda, in particular those meeting 507 spec.

The 507 00 specification does not demand that the oil must be synthetic, although to meet the performance requirements it is technically required, but then again there are different types of synthetic and not all synthetic oils meet VW 507 00.  In other words, being “synthetic” means little but VW 507 00 approval shows it is suitable for long drain use.

8 hours ago, Wino said:

In theory, the oil temp monitoring is looking after that for you if on variable servicing? In practice, I wouldn't be confident in it.

Yes - the ODI algorithm takes lots of factors into account and should adjust accordingly.

8 hours ago, weasley said:

The 507 00 specification does not demand that the oil must be synthetic, although to meet the performance requirements it is technically required, but then again there are different types of synthetic and not all synthetic oils meet VW 507 00.  In other words, being “synthetic” means little but VW 507 00 approval shows it is suitable for long drain use.

Yes, I looked at dozens of 507 oils, at Graham's suggestion.  They were all fully synthetic.  Some oils are mealy-mouthed and use terms like synthetic technology or synthetic blend.  I look for 'fully synthetic'.  I think it is the DPF and ashing which forces the manufacturers to use fully synthetic oils.

Mobil sent me this reply

 

"The usage described (towing a caravan on a gradient) is quite more severe if compared to a normal usage condition, hence an increase of 20 C is reasonable.

If occurring on a regular basis, such a temperature increase will accordingly contribute to an increase of the oxidation/degradation process of the product, hence the oil drain interval should be reduced.

The car manual indicates what is the recommended oil drain interval referred to a normal usage of the vehicle; in some cases, it could also take into account an oil drain interval referred to more severe usage conditions.. but in case it doesn’t, if for example in normal conditions it is 15000 km / 2 years, we would suggest to lower it to 10000 km / 1 year."

 

So my plan to keep to a limit of 120 is a good one.  Skoda.cz told me they did not know, ask a dealer!

As you seem quite interested in oils, if you create a login here: https://erwin.skoda-auto.cz/erwin/showHome.do 

you can then access lists of oils that are formally approved to the various VAG standards. (Link towards the bottom right of homepage)

Many other oils not on these lists can and do claim that they 'meet or exceed' the standards, but only those on the relevant list, VAG have checked and agree that they do. That's not say that these other oils aren't as good, just that they haven't paid for and been granted approved status. @weasley may have some insight into how the approval process actually works?

8 hours ago, weasley said:

The 507 00 specification does not demand that the oil must be synthetic, although to meet the performance requirements it is technically required, but then again there are different types of synthetic and not all synthetic oils meet VW 507 00.  In other words, being “synthetic” means little but VW 507 00 approval shows it is suitable for long drain use.

Yes, I looked at dozens of 507 oils, at Graham's suggestion.  They were all fully synthetic.  Some oils are mealy-mouthed and use terms like synthetic technology or synthetic blend.  I look for 'fully synthetic'.  I think it is the DPF and ashing which forces the manufacturers to use fully synthetic oils.

Thanks @Wino but I already have that list.  

Since Oil is a Coolant as well as a lubricant it is 'Simply Clever' to have the max quantity of the correct oil in for situations like towing over high alpine passes in high summer temperatures, or even just trucking about the UK. (As shown in the Owners Manuals.)

Then the correct strength of Anti Freeze / Summer Coolant / Anti corrosion liquid in the Coolant System.

 

* The check 'warm' is an error in this manual and others from Skoda.*

It is Check at Operating Temperature or Normal Operating Temperature and even Check Hot in Audi, VW & SEAT owners manuals covering the same VW Group engines.

Only the 1.2 44kW engines checked cold. these have only 2.8 litre oil capacity.

 

Edited 18 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

Here is a great resource on matters oily https://aamcouniversity.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/7/2019/09/LBT-299-PDF-Manual.pdf

Many great sources of info are in the General Maintenance section and others from those in the Oil & Component Supplying Business.

Sponsors and Members have given advice on Oils over the past decades.

7 hours ago, Wino said:

@weasley may have some insight into how the approval process actually works?

I do.  The VW 507 00 specification is a document published by VW and regularly updated. It includes all expectations of an oil that are required to be met in order to be approved.  This includes a long list of physical and chemical laboratory tests (eg viscosity at various temperatures and shear rates, element levels, ash, pour point, volatility etc) as well as a list of engine tests that must be run and passed, looked at wear, piston deposits, sludge, DPF blocking, fuel economy etc.

 

To hold a formal approval you must carry out all the tests at accredited test facilities, achieve results that meet VW’s limits, declare your formulation precisely and commit not to alter it beyond the limited variance that is allowed and then send all this data to VW with a fee, they will inspect and verify it, and if all ist in ordnung you get a letter of approval for that formulation under that brand name for a defined period of time. Only then can you formally claim to have a VW approval.
 

Over time the approvals expire; they can be reapproved, which usually means a limited bit of validation work unless VW have updated the specification in the mean time, meaning you have to meet the new requirements which can mean the need to completely reformulate and start from scratch.  Such changes are signalled well in advance though, giving time to get products ready for the latest spec version.

 

Also worth mentioning that to achieve VW 507 00 you must have ACEA C3 and you have to also have VW 504 00 (for petrol engines), hence you will (or should) always see an oil with VW 504 00/507 00, which is collectively and colloquially known as “VW longlife 3”.

 

Finally, be careful with the spec numbers. The full specs are 504 00 and 507 00, not just 504 and 507.  In this case it is not a problem as there are no other 504 or 507 specs, but there are some VW specs that have the same first number and different suffices, making a huge difference.  For example there’s 505 00 and 505 01 and more recently there is 509 00 and 509 99, which are vastly different specs.

Thanks for taking the time to give such a full and interesting answer. It's no wonder that lots of oils aren't put through the approval process.

 

7 hours ago, farty said:

Yes, I looked at dozens of 507 oils, at Graham's suggestion.  They were all fully synthetic.  Some oils are mealy-mouthed and use terms like synthetic technology or synthetic blend.  I look for 'fully synthetic'.  I think it is the DPF and ashing which forces the manufacturers to use fully synthetic oils.

“Fully synthetic” means that all of the base oil in the oil is from a nominally synthetic source.  This can be either synthesised from smaller molecules (eg PAO and esters) or refined and then hydrocracked from mineral oil.  The result is a base oil mix with high resistance to degradation and good high and low temperature viscosity properties.

 

Any other synthetic term generally means the oil has a blend of some synthetic base oil and some mineral.  However the important thing is the performance, not the ingredients. If an oil manufacturer can achieve high performance using good additives in a partially-synthetic oil then well done them.  Bear in mind that the specification is like a high jump; all you need to do is clear the bar - you get no extra credit for sailing way over the top.  That said, the VW specs are a pretty high bar to clear.

 

Finally, the ‘ash’ created when oils burn comes from the additives, not the base oils.  The additives contain elements such as calcium, magnesium and zinc, which form solid oxides when burnt.  These ashes collect in the DPF along with the soot that they are designed to collect (soot is from partially burnt fuel). The regen process can get rid of the soot, since it is mostly carbon, but it can not get rid of the metal oxides as they don’t burn, hence they accumulate over time and eventually permanently block the DPF.  The VW 507 00 spec has an engine test that specifically tests for DPF blocking and many engine oil specs include a ‘sulphated ash’ test limit; typically 0.8% max for DPF-ready oils.

6 minutes ago, Wino said:

Thanks for taking the time to give such a full and interesting answer. It's no wonder that lots of oils aren't put through the approval process.

 

Quite!  Another way to achieve an approved oil is to buy an off-the-shelf option from one of the major additive suppliers (there are only four globally).  They will have done all the hard work and spent the significant amount needed on testing (multi-millions) and will sell it to a marketer who just needs to blend it in the right base oils and register it with VW.  Or an oil blender may make it for other brands, hence why you can get Halfords or Amazon oil, since neither of them develop or manufacture oils.

41 minutes ago, weasley said:

Or an oil blender may make it for other brands, hence why you can get Halfords or Amazon oil, since neither of them develop or manufacture oils.

So, a Tesco, Amazon or Halfords oil that meets VW 507 00 is probably just as good as a Castrol or Mobil equivalent?  And could be almost identical?

Tesco , Asda and others do have oils that say various things on the bottles and if it is to or exceeds then these multinationals are not selling you engine killers.

 

Amazon, Google & Microsoft were against oil and gas and pollution but then could not miss out on the money available so they are assisting the Oil & Gas industry in getting Oil and Gas reserves out cheaper.

So even though Amazon do not have a 'Branded' Engine or any type of oil they are very much involved in the oil business.

 

From the factory now the VW Engines get VW 508 / 509.  0w 20 FS IV.

 

With the Supermarket Brand or other oils the VW502 00 FS is for TSI's on Fixed Servicing if you want use.  Not Long Life and not for TDI's.

Edited 18 September, 20205 yr by e-Roottoot

Amazon branded not as cheap as I'd've expected:

 

https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/353151972673  is about £20 for 5L, delivered.

 

Edited 18 September, 20205 yr by farty

Haha, the logo on that with the drop as the o and the fact that I haven't got my reading glasses on made me read that as "Tap Water" at first glance. 

 

And why doesn't it seem to say anything about 504 00/507 00 on the bottle?

Edited 18 September, 20205 yr by Wino

I don't see any VW approval on the can.....

Looks like a misleading listing title.

This looks better, it has 507 approval on the can  https://www.ebay.co.uk/i/264769387628  and its on the list of VAG oils

 

£16 and free postage - how is it possible?

 

 

http://atlanticlubes.com/en/product/atlantic-synthech-ultra-power-ll-iii-c3-sae-5w-30

Edited 18 September, 20205 yr by farty

3 hours ago, farty said:

So, a Tesco, Amazon or Halfords oil that meets VW 507 00 is probably just as good as a Castrol or Mobil equivalent?  And could be almost identical?

Not necessarily. As I said, an oil could sail over the bar but get no extra credit for it. This is where the oil companies attempt to show how their oils are differentiated from others and hence worth the extra.

 

Unlikely to be identical - even if a big name made the oil for another seller, they would likely not give away their ‘good stuff’ but would make something that just sneaks over the bar and is appropriately priced.