Winter wheels?

[PaulCanning]

I've never had a car that was nice enough that Ive ever bothered with wondering but......

 

"WTF are winter wheels?"

 

Let me preface this with Im completely ignorant on the subject and am making an assumption that they are wheels you don't really care about during harsher winter months and save the good wheels for the better weather?

 

 

[Manc-Fletch]

Winter tyres is the correct emphasis. The idea is you fit winter tyres suitable for running on snow and ice during the winter months, since these tend to be a higher profile then the use of comparatively cheap steel wheels is the most common option to use.

My next tyres are more likely to be “all season” types, suitable for use all year round, thus saving the hassle and cost of a second set of wheels.

l 

[Phil-E]

It's very common here in Germany. Since winter tyres are a requirement in winter weather most people have a 2nd set of wheels with winter tyres that they swap over for the winter (October to Easter is the general rule or "O bis O" Oktober bis Ostern).

 

Garages also offer a winter wheel storage. You pay around €50 a year and they store them for you. This price also includes swapping them over too.

 

All seasons are becoming more popular too (especially with mild winters). Also saves the hassle of swapping them over. I'll be getting all seasons this year.

[PaulCanning]

Ah ok I get it now, it does seem that all season tyres would be the least hassle all round then. 

[Kenny R]

Winter tyres are not just for snow and ice, normal “summer “ tyre compounds tend to go hard below 7°C whereas winter tyres stay soft and grip at lower temperatures. As said All season tyres are a good compromise nowadays and can save the hassle of swapping over wheels/ tyres, but as you say having a set of wheels for winter conditions is a bonus and your good wheels are tucked up nice. It’s all really down to location as to whether you experience winter conditions or not.

Edited 27 September, 2020 by Kenny R

[Munfred]

In addition to the above, winter tyres also have different tread patterns to summer tyres and usually have more sipes which will help in wet weather.

If you to see how winter tyres look compared to summer tyres then you are welcome to look at the ones i have for my fabia.

Certainly make a noticeable difference in grip over the winter period

[Phil-E]

All seasons are definitely a good all rounder and are perfectly suited to the UK and European climate.

 

But they're no match for a pure summer tyre in summer or a winter tyre in deep snow and ice.

 

So if you're planning on track days in the summer and driving to a ski resort in the winter then 2 sets of wheels and tyres is the best choice.

 

And since all seasons are M+S marked then they meet the legal requirements for all weather conditions.

[Ootohere]

^^^ All M+S marked tyres are not 3 peak marked.

 

3 peak Winter Certificated tyres will be M+S marked.

 

Then Michelin CrossClimates are a winter certificated summer tyre.  As Michelin say.

http://news.michelin.co.uk/michelin-launches-first-summer-tyre-certified-for-winter-use

http://michelin.co.uk/auto/tips-and-advice/how-do-i-care-for-my-tyres/winter-tyres/what-winter-tyres-should-i-choose/how-to-recognise-a-good-winter-tyre

 

 

http://oponeo.co.uk/blog/winter-tyres-don-t-rely-on-the-m-s-mark

 

In Deep Snow & Ice you want studded tyres or chains and some vehicle that Skoda do not produce as they do not do the clearance and have vehicles more suited to ploughed roads / tracks.

 

Edited 27 September, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[Phil-E]

True. But in Germany all winter and all seasons carry the three peak symbol since this is now required on tyres manufactured after 2019.

[SurreyJohn]

In recent years, has been a tendency to fit cars with low profile summer tyres (which have longtitudanal grooves).  Any summer tyre marked as Eco is likely to have an harder compound, so even worse in cold weather.
 

These are great on summer days, but rubbish on colder days at dealing with cold rain, muddy field run off, slush, snow etc.

 

It is basic physics and chemistry, rubber compounds become harder at low temperatures, and at higher temperatures become soft and sticky.   Tyres have a mix of compounds to suit a temperature range, but can’t defy laws of physics and make a tyre that works perfectly at both a cold winter night (say -15c) and a hot summer day (say +35c) as optimum temperature range is nearer 30c max (lower on budget tyres with simpler compounds)

 

It is generally agreed that winter tyres are better than summer tyres below +7c (recently shown to be nearer +9c in wet, +5c in dry, the +7 being an average).   Winter tyres are good upto about +15c, but they get softer and wear quicker in very hot weather so not suitable for all year.

 

All seasons are a relatively new concept (were rare 5 years ago), work better to about -5c (so useful for frosty mornings).  They tend to have treads that are better at displacing rain, and sipes for snow.   The downside is not as good as summer tyres over about 25c.  (but UK has many more days (and nights) below +7c than days over 25c

 

Full winter tyres are better for steep hills and in snow, during the winter as the treads are designed for it.
 

As changing tyres onto rims is not easy, most winter tyres are fitted on a duplicate set of rims, often with a smaller rim diameter and a deeper tyre, as grip is more important than all out speed in winter.

 

 

 

[Phil-E]

Having said that, shortly before I moved to Germany I drove to pick up a set of alloy wheels in my previous car (Saab 9-3 convertible).

 

I had Pirelli Cinturato Blu summer tyres (eco tyres rated A for fuel).

 

Drove down snowy country lanes as they were at a farm. Passed 3 cars crashed into ditches and didn't have a bit of bother.

 

But had there have been any hills there I wouldn't have had a chance.

 

I drove in snow last year with winters tyres. Up through the hills nearby (can be 20cm of snow there and dry as a bone down here). Handled superbly and even had to do an emergency stop coming down a hill as a branch fell in the road and I couldn't believe how quick it stopped!

[Manc-Fletch]

I returned from a two week driving holiday in Germany last weekend and noticed a couple of cars over there with winter tyres on already, even though it was 28C .

I guess it could be that the owners didn’t bother fitting summer tyres at all  

 

[SurreyJohn]

On 26/09/2020 at 23:06, PaulCanning said:

I've never had a car that was nice enough that Ive ever bothered with wondering but......

 

"WTF are winter wheels?"

 

Let me preface this with Im completely ignorant on the subject and am making an assumption that they are wheels you don't really care about during harsher winter months and save the good wheels for the better weather?

 

 

@PaulCanning There have been some very good and informative replies to this thread 
 

I notice you have specified a 4x4.    What you might not realise is a 2wd version with winter tyres will keep going if it snows, but your 4wd on factory tyres won’t get up the first hill it gets to (you will simply spin 4 wheels so probably slide sideways).  
 

Be interesting to know why you want 4x4 and factory fit summer tyres for all year use.  As most people would save the cost of the 4x4 and get all seasons instead.  I just wish they were an option on UK spec cars.

 

Here is a video of all season tyre choice (with a comparison to a summer tyre and a winter tyre)

https://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Article/2020-Tyre-Reviews-All-Season-Tyre-Test.htm
 

Edited 28 September, 2020 by SurreyJohn

[PaulCanning]

@SurreyJohn I've not specified a 4x4, it's what it was on the forecourt 2nd hand to me, this is not a brand new car from the dealer :-) As for the limitations of tyres / 4x4 etc don't worry, Im well aware :-)

I also never said I wanted factory fit summer tyres for all year use, in fact I don't even know if they are the originals as I've not looked that closely yet only having the car less than a week but will now for the thread.

 

OK, looks like I have 3x Pirellis which are Scorpion Verde and have these symbols on them whatever they mean and Ive googled til Im blue in the face, though I have found they are summer tyres. 

 

However for some reason one of the 4 is a Continental ContiSportContact5 which on googling is definitely a summer tyre. 

 

I've also watched that video which essentially does still advocate the different tyres for different seasons and all seasons still being  a compromise arguably.  

Food for thought.

[PaulCanning]

So, rereading the whole thread even though I live here in East Anglia and that's the bulk of my driving and we don't get regular harsh winters then I'd likely not need them often.

 

But, I can't decide if it would be a nice option to have for the odd hard winter and of course when driving to Ireland in winter or even the Outer Hebrides which I do every year or 2 for a holiday. 

[Warrior193]

2 hours ago, PaulCanning said:

So, rereading the whole thread even though I live here in East Anglia and that's the bulk of my driving and we don't get regular harsh winters then I'd likely not need them often.

 

But, I can't decide if it would be a nice option to have for the odd hard winter and of course when driving to Ireland in winter or even the Outer Hebrides which I do every year or 2 for a holiday. 

Hi Paul, If you don't want the inconvenience of changing wheels twice a year - and storage for the unused set, the compromise option of all-weather tyres may be best for you.

[Ootohere]

@PaulCanning

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457748-pirelli-seal-inside-tyres-any-good

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/455213-question-about-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/476195-tyre-rotation-and-directional-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/463994-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/461824-what-off-road-tyres-do-you-use

 

Have you been to the Outer Hebrides and actually had difficulties travelling on snowy roads, or were the roads on the mainland before getting on the ferries snowy?

The Postie and the couriers and delivery vans get about just fine.

 

 

Picture from a post by @Kenny R

Edited 28 September, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[PaulCanning]

3 hours ago, Warrior193 said:

Hi Paul, If you don't want the inconvenience of changing wheels twice a year - and storage for the unused set, the compromise option of all-weather tyres may be best for you.

 

Yeah, Im beginning to think the same at this point to be honest. 

 

3 hours ago, e-Roottoot said:

@PaulCanning

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/457748-pirelli-seal-inside-tyres-any-good

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/455213-question-about-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/476195-tyre-rotation-and-directional-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/463994-tyres

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/461824-what-off-road-tyres-do-you-use

 

Have you been to the Outer Hebrides and actually had difficulties travelling on snowy roads, or were the roads on the mainland before getting on the ferries snowy?

The Postie and the couriers and delivery vans get about just fine.

 

That's a damn good point! LOL. 
And the only few times Ive ever been in proper winter conditions, one Ireland and one Wales I was in the qashqai which didn't handle the snow well at all, but also the other time was in a scenic and it handled it pretty well funnily. 

 

[VRS_White_Hatch]

I've bought a second hand set of wheels for the Octavia and also my last car a Saab 9-3 and had full winters. I fit them from start of Nov to March, I store them in the shed when not fitted. Winter tyres are cheaper than summer so doesn't cost as much as you might think, the winters are better in cold weather, not much though, but in snow they are 1000% better. Pity we don't get more snow. 

[MarkyG82]

All seasons can be the best of both worlds or compromised in both summer and winter.  If you are not the type to drive your car to its full capability then an all season on the UK is a good fit and forget.  If you are likely to push a bit harder then a dedicated set for each half year is a much better option.  

As commented above, winter tyres are not snow tyres.  They are just more suited to colder average temps and clear water much better.  Yes they are more suited to snow compared to a summer tyre but a full snow tyre they are not.  If you go to a tyre shop in the UK asking for winter tyres they will offer you rubber suited to driving on UK roads in the winter unless you ask for specific snow tyres.

[Warrior193]

My changeover to winters (Alpin5s) is going to be fairly soon - even though snow has been very rare around here for the past three winters, I can say that the extra grip available in the cold and wet conditions is noticeable. They don't appear to notice ice (black or otherwise) 

[ruffday]

Your assumption IMO is correct about winter wheels. For years now I have always had a set of winter wheels and summer wheels.

My current winter wheels are a set of Mercedes Borbet 16 inch alloys that have winter tyres fitted.

I picked them up last summer for a bargain £82 off ebay. They did great last winter and will see me through this winter as well.

They do have a few scuffs and a bit of kerb rash on them but they look ok and I am not worried if I damage them further in bad conditions.   

[DSL]

Got my full winters on, had them of for about 4 weeks now as tend to fit winters last week of Sept/first week of Oct.  

 

Tyres of choice.

 

I use proper winters rather than all seasons as up in the Highlands and it can be pretty severe, not just snow but had temps down to minus high teens.  Also they are just so much better in lower temps, bad/rainy weather etc, it’s not just about snow and ice.  I’ve been using Conti winters on other cars for about 10 years now and found them excellent in all conditions, to the extent that Mrs DSL was driving on sheet ice with perfect control, I was struggling to walk on it.  Plus on uncleared compacted snow (A9 over Drumochter before the ploughs got their butts into gear) they were great up to 60mph.  My house is up a fairly well used side road, but not adopted so not gritted, use results in any snow getting compacted down into ice and when it melts it get very slick.  A no go in summer tyres unless in a proper 4x4, a breeze with winters.
 

 

OK, it’s another cost but the set of Ratikons I put the winters on cost only £250 and I’ve splashed out on a full sized spare and same tyre (similar for summer set) as the type of driving I do dictates carrying a spare.  Another advantage of these tyres is they are non directional so spare gets fully used.  
 

Looking forward to a bit of snow this winter to see if I can replicate this pic in Skippy.  As long as I can beat the plough. 
 

Edited 25 October, 2020 by DSL

[Ootohere]

I put a set of wheels with Michelin CrossClimate tyres on my e-Corsa and they have been as I expected on wet rosds. But they were not on the aero wheels for the car and the range has dropped which is more down to the wheels.  So yesterday I put Alpin 6 tyres on the original wheels.  They have been great today on very very wet roads, but so where the CrossClimates.   During the week I will be able to see if the wheels and tyres affect the cars range any and maybe get to try the Alpin,s on some snowy roads.

 

Edited 20 November, 2020 by e-Roottoot

[DSL]

Re the Conti winters, found no loss in mpg on a 1,200 mile like for like trip.  The yellow mark is where they were changed.   If anything the mpg is better.  

 

Edited 15 November, 2020 by DSL