Scout is going in for Firmware updates (and a service)

[varaderoguy]

I booked my long suffering Scout for a service at West End Skoda.  The poor car has only been in my ownership for a year - purchased when the car had only 2800 miles on the clock in December 2019 and it now has 23000 miles.  I'm out of sync with my servicing, so this will be an oil change service only.

 

Anyhow, the service adviser and myself got onto the subject of firmware updates (because he is genuinely interested in the updates that I'm doing to the car and switching on all of the options via VCDS).  I said that my vehicle is somewhat behind on firmware versions for the Climatronic (currently 2002 - there is a 2401 version) and also one version behind on the DSG DQ381 gearbox (currently 2406 - there is a 2407 version).  They have no problems with updating the firmware to the latest versions, so lets see what is upgraded and what the differences are.

 

So - I will update everyone on the 3rd December when it goes in for a fettle.

 

 

[RB79]

Interesting topic. So there's clearly a lot of software in these modern cars which can get updated over time.

 

Question... Is updation of the various firmware done by explicit request when car goes into service and is it done at extra cost? Or is it done automatically as part of routine service? I would hope the latter but doubt it's the case.

 

If at extra cost, how much extra are you paying just for the updates please (if you don't mind me asking). Also do you get firmware updates for the entertainment / navigation system?

[langers2k]

What source are you using to confirm updates are needed? Few that I'm aware of:

- Flash file name in the latest VAG flash data

- OBDeleven 'suggests' updates

- TPI/TSB from VAG for your VIN

 

Guessing from the flash file name is risky, it might work but unless others have done it successfully without issue, I wouldn't use just the name as a source of truth.

 

I think OBDeleven also guesses from the flash data. The OBDeleven screenshot you shared recently showed the CAN-gateway was running 4366 but suggesting 5366 was newer/available. This is not an upgrade I would suggest as the 4xxx and 5xxx software versions are for different manufactures of CAN-gateways...

 

The TPI/TSB route is by far the best as it's a 'VAG approved' upgrade path. You can check in erwin against your VIN for a small fee

 

48 minutes ago, RB79 said:

Question... Is updation of the various firmware done by explicit request when car goes into service and is it done at extra cost? Or is it done automatically as part of routine service? I would hope the latter but doubt it's the case.

 

Unless it's safety or regulation related, I wouldn't expect updates to be offered or applied automatically. On my car, it looks like the ECU has been updated but the headunit/radio and seat controller haven't been updated despite their being valid TPIs against my VIN.

[MarkyG82]

1 hour ago, RB79 said:

 

Question... Is updation of the various firmware done by explicit request when car goes into service and is it done at extra cost? Or is it done automatically as part of routine service? I would hope the latter but doubt it's the case.

 

 

From what people have said in the past, dealers use the mantra of  'ain't broke, don't fix'.

[PetrolDave]

3 hours ago, MarkyG82 said:

From what people have said in the past, dealers use the mantra of  'ain't broke, don't fix'.

When I KNEW that there was a software update available for both my Amundsen MIB1 and my engine ECU my then Skoda dealer (I've moVed since) not only refused to apply the updates but even had the cheek to tell me there were no updates

[varaderoguy]

6 hours ago, RB79 said:

Interesting topic. So there's clearly a lot of software in these modern cars which can get updated over time.

 

Question... Is updation of the various firmware done by explicit request when car goes into service and is it done at extra cost? Or is it done automatically as part of routine service? I would hope the latter but doubt it's the case.

 

If at extra cost, how much extra are you paying just for the updates please (if you don't mind me asking). Also do you get firmware updates for the entertainment / navigation system?

The updates are done by explicit request. Iam IT person and updates are a normal part of life. They are important because they fix faults and flaws and imperfections in the functionality of a piece of hardware. All modern Skodas are computers on wheels and whether you like it or not, the latest generation of Skodas will have firmware patches applied on the fly as part of their day to day operation. The MK3 Octavias can be treated in the same vane....the modules have updates and there are good reasons why VW have released new firmware versions. It is terribly wasteful to say - hey my car is running sub-optimally but Ill live with it and get a newer car to fix a software fault. Not good. 

 

I will no doubt be charged market rate for the firmware updates and my dealer is interested in process as well because it is good business for them and also keeps customers happy....so Ill be the guinea pig. However, the caviat being that if they break it, they fix it....so hey ho.....their risk too.

 

Admittedly, VW and most car manufacturers don't make it easy to update but this attitude has to change with modern cars becoming connected 24/7.

 

Some of you may not agree with my stance; that's cool. Im not going into this blind; I am just treating my cars as they were designed...to be updated devices.

 

The MK3 FL Octy's do have the ability to remotely update but it is limited functionality (such as patches for the MIB2.5 system) but nothing else unless you visit the dealer. 

 

Taking @PetrolDave
point ; a lot of dealers do not have the experience with software updates....it blackmagic to them. Their master technician knows how to do it, but other techs probably not. Deny all plausibility and hope the customer goes away.

 

I get my details from ODBELEVEN on the firmware updates....and that information generally pretty reliable....so I am happy with that concept.

[wg100]

Following with interest.

[varaderoguy]

Grr - West End Skoda came back....seems they've had a change of heart....

 

We have checked all the firmware updates that you mention and there is none of them that we are able to do.

 There may be a couple that ŠKODA would recommend if there was a fault with anything that is controlled by that ECU, but unless it is recommended by ŠKODA as part of a product enhancement or technical bulletin relating to a complaint we are unable to carry these out.

 As with long coding and forced software updates (for tuning etc.), there is always a chance of causing internal damage to ECU's.

 I hope this explains West End Garage's stance on this matter

 

It all seemed so positive; however, I will now question the source (ie the ODBEleven forums) as well as finding out from Skoda UK what their perspective is. 

[langers2k]

As I mentioned above, I wouldn't trust the OBDeleven 'there is new firmware' message, especially given the CAN-gateway suggested firmware. If it also get a valid TPI then it would be a much more useful thing rather than a firmware version seemingly pulled out of thin air.

 

You should use erwin and grab the TPI/TSB's for your VIN. There are some examples below that apply to my VIN.

 

The first relates to the ECU and had been applied (could be by the dealer or factory?) when I bought the car:

Quote

Technical product information Transaction No.: 2048654/5
Instrument panel indicating start-stop system defect Release date: 07-Feb-2018

Customer statement:
The instrument panel indicates a defect of the start-stop system immediately after the engine start.

Technical background
Deviation of the engine control unit software.

 

Measure
Update of the CU software using ODIS diagnostic tool via diagnostic address 01.

    Original SW version
        5G0906259N 0001, 0002

    New SW version

        5G0906259N 0003

 

The second relates to the headunit and not been applied despite being released almost six months before my purchase. This gave me the extra push to apply the updates offered by Pab given there was a valid reason:

Quote

Technical product information Transaction No.: 2049459/10
MIB Standard II (Amundsen, Bolero) – unit malfunction Release date: 28-Feb-2020

 

Customer statement:
Customer may complain about one of the following phenomena:
• ABT display failures (black screen).
• MIB switching off, restarting – with a connected mobile device with the IOS operating system.
• MIB without sound, or sound cannot be controlled, voice control malfunction.
• MIB sporadically switching off or gets frozen while calculating route or while navigating.
• MIB does not allow the lower menu bar to be automatically hidden in the navigation mode.
• MIB does not allow the activated additional information window to be closed.
• Virtual Škoda Surround not working.
• Radio is playing when customer comes to the locked vehicle.
• Deactivating auxiliary heater pre-selections.
• Changing time indicator.
• The hands-free function is not available; displayed is the indication „Phone not available“ and Bluetooth does not work.

Workshop findings:
• The customer statement can be reproduced.

Technical background
Faulty SW MIB Standard (Amundsen, Bolero) in vehicles manufactured in the period from CW 22/2016 to CW 45/2019.

Production change
Modified MIB control unit Generation II with new SW version introduced since CW 45/2019.

Measure
• If the customer complains about one of the above symptoms, perform the update of SW MIB Standard (Amundsen, Bolero) to the new SW version.
• Updating procedure of the MIB control unit using the application SD Creator – see Service Information No. 2034053.
• To download the SW 367 (to be applied to vehicles manufactured in CW 22/2016 – 22/2017), enter Part No. V00.201.805.01 in the application SD Creator:
• To download the SW 478 (to be applied to vehicles manufactured in CW 23/2017 - 45/2019) enter Part No. 5F5.H5Q.003.58 in the application SD Creator:

 

 

Finally, the only outstanding update I'm aware of is the electric seat controller:

Quote

Technical product information Transaction No.: 2049942/3
Storing seat memory positions not working Release date: 07-Feb-2019

 

Customer statement:
• Storing driver’s seat or front passenger’s seat positions into memory is not working.

Service centre findings:
• Entries „no basic setting“ concerning seat adjusting motors are stored in the event memory of the seat control unit.

Measure
• Online update of the memory seat control unit SW using the diagnostic tool ODIS via the measure code.

• If the fault „Data set invalid“ is logged, check the SW version. It has always to be the latest SW version, i.e. SW 22 or 24.
• In the case of the version SW 22 or 24 with the fault entry „Data set invalid“, carry out only the parametrization of the memory seat control unit using the software configuration (SWK).

 

Even if I reported that my seat had issues, without the 'no basic settings' fault, the dealer still might not apply the update 

 

I've got someone who will hopefully be doing some more remote work with ODIS for me so I'll see if they can update/parameterise the module for me.

 

If you really want the dealer to perform updates, give them the info they need to find and perform the update or even claim to be having the symptoms in the TPI. Most even have an amount of workunits the dealer can claim from Skoda for performing it....

 

 

Don't get me wrong, I fully agree that if there is an update, I'd much rather have it applied at my convenience (service etc) rather than waiting for the problem to crop up and wasting time playing the 'please fix it' game but that's not how the system currently works I'm afraid 

 

On a side note, I like TPI 2051234/5, it's basically about faulty MIB screens with vertical lines amongst other faults. The 'fix' is to replace the screen which explains why there are so many on eBay that are 'new' with a warning about vertical lines

 

I'd be interested to here OBDelevens response to where they source the update info from and if your dealer would be happy to update with a valid TPI against your VIN.