Remapped and now turbo has gone

[Ootohere]

5 years back and there were ones failing remapped or not and some got away lucky and got the car fixed and were not caught out by having had a remap.

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/340575-turbo-failure-golf-r-s3-leon-280

 

[J.R.]

Does anybody take responsability for their actions and "suck it up" these days?

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, J.R. said:

Does anybody take responsability for their actions and "suck it up" these days?

I'm assuming this isn't a dig at me, because I'm in no way not taking responsibility, I'm simply trying to get some ammo to fire back at people who insist that I'm stupid for not removing the map and taking the car back to Skoda. Even firing this argument back, I'm still being told "We'll, it's worth a try, what have you got to lose". For one, I'll lose face and probably feel terrible attempting to walk back into the dealership again if they pick up the modifications.
 

On the flip side of the argument though, manufacturers are quick not to take responsibility as well. Just look at these turbo issues, they've been happening on remapped and stock versions of the EA888 since 2014, the failures have gradually reduced somewhat, but anyone outside of warranty will get turned away for what is in my eyes a fault. Even looking back at our old Mk3 Octavia VRS, we had the common water pump issues 6 month out of warranty and had to fork out the cost to repair ourselves. It's a common fault, but it's just tough. We also had a problem with paint pealing around the spoiler on the boot lid, again, just outside of warranty, Skoda were not interested even though again, plenty of other people were experiencing the same issue. With the IS38 turbo failures, Audi recalled the A3 to have turbo's replaced (at least in the US anyway), but that never happened for VW/Skoda/Seat. They've basically sat back, knowing there was a problem and replaced any that failed under warranty, any that failed outside of warranty, then tough. The fact they released something like 7-8 revisions of the IS38 since 2014 shows they've been making changes to improve reliability.

Then you got the likes of Jaguar, where some customers are needing to have their DPF replaced through being blocked, and they're being told by the dealer that they won't cover it because it's down to driving style. I think they've recently admitted that there is an issue now, but still, manufacturers can't expect customers to take responsibility when they don't themselves, it's got to work both ways.

In the case of the turbo in my case, I'm sure that even with a stock map, it would have went at some point, the map just brought that date forward.

Then don't get me started on tuning companies, who knowing fine well that the IS38 is weak are not informing their customers before undertaking the work. They're still pushing high boost levels and advertising high performance figures to win customers. It is time that they started taking responsibility too, even  if it's just giving the customer all the information they need upfront to make an informed decision. Ideally, tuning companies should be telling customers they'll need to have their turbo balanced before remapping, but they won't because that'll add £150-200 onto the cost of the work + labour, and people will just go elsewhere where it's cheaper.

In terms of my issues, I've accepted I made the choice (without all the information upfront), it's down to me, and I'll pay the price financially.

Edited 22 November, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[newbie69]

41 minutes ago, J.R. said:

Does anybody take responsability for their actions and "suck it up" these days?

Hopefully your question concerns equally owners as well as manufacturers and their faulty design/equipment choices.

What I'm saying is it's a complicated case this one in general with the blown IS38 turbos on these (even stock) engines.  In some cases, remaps surely have provided a get-out-of-jail card to VAG.

Imagine the following scenario: A 2018 car soon to be out of warranty and let's assume with a weak turbo from factory. If it blew up (stock) 1-2 years down the road the full repair cost would be down to the owner despite having done nothing wrong. Now let's also assume that a remap may have brought up the issue of the weak stock turbo much sooner while still under warranty. If that particular owner was able to hide his map and have VAG cover the expenses would it really be him not sucking up/commiting fraud or? I mean not typically but ethically...

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with claiming under warranty, I'd just upgrade and move on, this was a decision/plan I made before even purchasing the car knowing the probability of a turbo weakness and that I would only increase it by tuning it but if some are failing in stock form i understand it raises the question.


 

[TheBinarySheep]

11 minutes ago, newbie69 said:

Hopefully your question concerns equally owners as well as manufacturers and their faulty design/equipment choices.

What I'm saying is it's a complicated case this one in general with the blown IS38 turbos on these (even stock) engines.  In some cases, remaps surely have provided a get-out-of-jail card to VAG.

Imagine the following scenario: A 2018 car soon to be out of warranty and let's assume with a weak turbo from factory. If it blew up (stock) 1-2 years down the road the full repair cost would be down to the owner despite having done nothing wrong. Now let's also assume that a remap may have brought up the issue of the weak stock turbo much sooner while still under warranty. If that particular owner was able to hide his map and have VAG cover the expenses would it really be him not sucking up/commiting fraud or? I mean not typically but ethically...

Personally, I wouldn't even bother with claiming under warranty, I'd just upgrade and move on, this was a decision/plan I made before even purchasing the car knowing the probability of a turbo weakness and that I would only increase it by tuning it but if some are failing in stock form i understand it raises the question.


 

It's would be pointless for me to get the car repaired under warranty anyway, as I'd be paranoid about the OEM turbo. Upgrade seems the easiest way to get that worry out of my mind.

One that that has dawned on my recently, I've been hearing a whine from the turbo at low RPM. When I've researched it, it meant the turbo was on it's way out. I've never had a turbo go before so I just assumed it was something to do with the remap spooling up the turbo early to reduce lag. I'm kicking myself for not looking into it earlier!

Edited 22 November, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[newbie69]

21 minutes ago, TheBinarySheep said:

It's would be pointless for me to get the car repaired under warranty anyway, as I'd be paranoid about the OEM turbo. Upgrade seems the easiest way to get that worry out of my mind.

One that that has dawned on my recently, I've been hearing a whine from the turbo at low RPM. When I've researched it, it meant the turbo was on it's way out. I've never had a turbo go before so I just assumed it was something to do with the remap spooling up the turbo early to reduce lag. I'm kicking myself for not looking into it earlier!

Retrospectively, everybody knows what the signs were, I say don't kick yourself too much.

Check the engine is fine, upgrade the turbo, and be happy again with the car.

[Redboy]

Rather than turbos being weak, even if run as standard, do you have still to look after the turbo any more? By that I mean letting it idle after a long run rather than shutting off immediately?  I used to religiously let both my standard MkII and especially the stage 1 MkIII idle on the drive. I confess I didn’t do that with my Golf and switch off my 272 without idling, the rationale being that I drive slowly onto the estate and reverse slowly back onto the drive, so I hope temps have dropped a bit. 

[Ootohere]

In  the real world even if you are driving everyplace at 90-100 mph you are not roasting the oil or killing the turbo and as it is unless you disable / inhibit stop start the engine stops.

If you are trucking around at 60-70 mph making sporty sounds with a sporty exhaust note you are really just driving a family size passenger car and not straining the engine.

 

If you are tracking the car then that is a rather different story.

[TheBinarySheep]

Not much of an update, but one nonetheless. 

Recovery truck finally came today to collect the car, so now it's with the specialist to see what sort of damage we're looking at. It's hard to believe this is day 9 since the car broke.

[TheBinarySheep]

Another small update.

From initial checks, the engine seems fine. There is a little bit of oil left in the engine which is good, but there's still the chance of bearing damage if the engine has been starved of oil/pressure. They won't know until the new turbo has been installed and the oil system sealed as that's when they can start to turn the engine over.

New turbo has been ordered, waiting for it to come in before booking a technician to fit it, which is looking at the early part of next week.

[shyVRS245]

Which turbo did you go for in the OEM or uprated?

[TheBinarySheep]

I went for the Littco L380X, it seemed daft to got OEM when the Littco is half the price.

[shyVRS245]

Agree might as well upgrade and hopefully future proof.

[newbie69]

So you went for a complete new unit instead of sending yours in for an upgrade?

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

So you went for a complete new unit instead of sending yours in for an upgrade?

 

I think it's the supercore they've ordered.

[newbie69]

15 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

 

I think it's the supercore they've ordered.

Meaning your own old turbo is used as the base, right?

[IJWS15]

On 22/11/2020 at 12:29, J.R. said:

Does anybody take responsability for their actions and "suck it up" these days?

 

If this is aimed at VAG then we are provided with a certain level of warranty when we buy a car (Skoda is 3 years and you can buy more).   

 

Some manufacturers provide more warranty because they have to in order to sell their cars at that price point.  Some cars sell even when they are known to be unreliable (alfas).  Rolls Royce have the reputation for fixing things because "Rolls Royces don't break down" but that is covered in the price you pay for the car.  In the UK we have a reasonable level of protection, not as much as in the US, but if we want more then the price of cars will rise.

 

If it is aimed at the tuner then he should have told the OP that the turbo was "weak" and only gone ahead if you agreed to accept the risk.  He can't argue later that a weak turbo was the cause of the problem.

 

The OP went to a tuner who should have known what he is doing but apparently didn't and should have told the OP the risks but didn't.  OP can't now go back to Skoda but could go after the tuner.

[TheBinarySheep]

1 hour ago, newbie69 said:

Meaning your own old turbo is used as the base, right?

My understanding is that the only part used from my turbo is the exhaust side of the turbo housing, actuator etc. The compressor/core and inlet housing are all supplied.

[TheBinarySheep]

55 minutes ago, IJWS15 said:

 

If this is aimed at VAG then we are provided with a certain level of warranty when we buy a car (Skoda is 3 years and you can buy more).   

 

Some manufacturers provide more warranty because they have to in order to sell their cars at that price point.  Some cars sell even when they are known to be unreliable (alfas).  Rolls Royce have the reputation for fixing things because "Rolls Royces don't break down" but that is covered in the price you pay for the car.  In the UK we have a reasonable level of protection, not as much as in the US, but if we want more then the price of cars will rise.

 

If it is aimed at the tuner then he should have told the OP that the turbo was "weak" and only gone ahead if you agreed to accept the risk.  He can't argue later that a weak turbo was the cause of the problem.

 

The OP went to a tuner who should have known what he is doing but apparently didn't and should have told the OP the risks but didn't.  OP can't now go back to Skoda but could go after the tuner.

The tuner did tell me that the turbo's on these can be a weak point, but that was after the tune had been applied and when I was picking the car up.

I get that tuners are competing with each other, and most customers are choosing their tuner based on the headline power figures. I looked at using one of those Bluefin devices to map the car, but I didn't because their power output was too low. However, if I'd chosen Bluefin maybe the turbo wouldn't have gone. If the tuner had told me before hand that the turbo was weak, then I'd have gone and asked another tuner who would have told me that the turbos are fine, and I'd have got them to remap the car and probably still been in the same situation. There's no consistency across tuners.

Edited 2 December, 2020 by TheBinarySheep

[IJWS15]

22 hours ago, TheBinarySheep said:

The tuner did tell me that the turbo's on these can be a weak point, but that was after the tune had been applied and when I was picking the car up.

I.............................................. If the tuner had told me before hand that the turbo was weak, then I'd have gone and asked another tuner ..........................

 

That is my point, he didn't give you critical information until it was too late and can't rely on it now.

[TheBinarySheep]

Car was penciled in to have the new turbo installed tomorrow, but I've just seen a mechanic driving my car around an industrial estate. I don't know any more info than that, but I'm more hopefully of some good news later today.

[TheBinarySheep]

Spoke with the specialist.

Car seems fine, they're keeping the car overnight so they can do a cold start in the morning and check for oil leaks etc before they hand it back.

[MarkyG82]

So what have they done?

 

New turbo we know about. Have they left the map on? Have they tweaked it to match the new turbo?

[TheBinarySheep]

The map is still on the car.

At the minute, I don't know if they've tweaked the map. I don't know if a tweak it required because the new turbo is based on the OEM IS38 anyway and is a bolt on replacement.
 

They've still go the car, but I'll try and find out more when I collect it. Hopefully later today.

[TheBinarySheep]

Finally have the car back.

I've been told to take it easy for a while. They've tried to get as much oil out of the intake as possible but there's a chance that there's still some in the intercooler so I need to go easy and not force it all through the engine in one go.

The catalytic converter sustained some damage, but they don't believe it's going to impact flow so have left it on the car.

The map is still on the car, and I'm going back to get the car on the rolling road in the new year just to check performance is still good and compare the new turbo to the old one. If it needs any tweaks they'll sort it out then.

Total cost, £1150. While it's a lot of money, I'm over the money it wasn't something more serious.

Edited 9 December, 2020 by TheBinarySheep