Tiers, Lockdowns & Vaccinations

[gadgetman]

27 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

I really don’t get this comment...

 

We would do it so it’s ok they will?

Except we are not, we are having it licence manufactured all over the world at a low cost.

 

We have not threatened to shut down exports to the EU of it.

 

So sorry, no I don’t see your point. They are acting like bullies. 

Thanks to social media and journalists it's clearer on the issue.

 

Astra zenica are contractually obliged to meet delivery's to every country. 

 

Where the batches for delivery are made are apparently NOT specified in the contracts of any nation. 

 

Therefore the onus is on AZ to honour its commitments. 

 

So the EU are demanding that AZ honour their commitment to them, and taking from other factories to do so isn't anything nasty. 

 

It's simply contractual law, and not big nasty EU. 

 

Let's see if this ever becomes reversed or EU start getting their quota and our factory has issues slowing supply and how you react then 😉

[@Lee]

I've just seen this 

Quote

The EU will ask AstraZeneca to publish the Covid-19 vaccine contract signed by both sides as the dispute deepens.

Officials said today that AstraZeneca's two UK plants making its coronavirus vaccine must share production with the EU under the contract the drugs firm signed with Brussels.

"Are we expecting the UK plants to deliver doses? The answer is yes," one of the EU officials said, briefing journalists on condition of anonymity.

https://www.rte.ie/news/coronavirus/2021/0127/1192269-coronavirus-vaccine/

So, it looks like the onus is on AZ to give clarity. 
'EU citizens' would have included Brits but you know, that thing we did.

 

Quote

The row over AstraZeneca's agreement to supply COVID-19 vaccines to the EU deepened on Wednesday, with the European Commission accusing the pharmaceutical giant of breaching a "binding commitment"

https://www.euronews.com/2021/01/27/covid-19-vaccine-astrazeneca-boss-hits-back-at-eu-criticism-over-supply-delays

Edited 27 January, 2021 by Lee01

[cheezemonkhai]

AZ state the contract uses the words best efforts, which have a specific legal meaning.

 

If it is enforceable , as the he EU claim, then there will be liquidated damages for not hitting the milestones.

 

I guess we will have to see, but if the EU thinks it’s right then rather than briefing they should take AZ to court. 

 

They do need to be careful though as a contract can be walked away from and a refund of any pre-payments made.

 

It would be interesting to see which set of laws the contract is under.

 

 

Edited 28 January, 2021 by cheezemonkhai

[gadgetman]

13 minutes ago, cheezemonkhai said:

They do need to be careful though as a contract can be walked away from and a refund of any pre-payments made.

Walking away from contracts isn't always that easy. And usually only possible if the other party fails in their contractual obligations. Otherwise there will be financial hits and damages due. 

 

So for AZ to walk away, the EU would have to breach its side - ie not pay, withhold payments 

 

The EU could probably break the contract without penalty if AZ fails to meet its obligations - ie not meet delivery quantities and schedules. 

 

So no, you cannot simply walk away from a contract unless there is adequate provision to in the legal bumf. 

[cheezemonkhai]

I have dealt with multi million pound/euro contracts for years.

 

This includes many EU funded contracts. 
 

If the EU position was as they claim, then the contract would have large liquidated damages and the ability for the EU to penalise the companies.

 

The fact that it’s a war of words and misinformation suggests this is the EU trying to blame the bogeyman for their mistakes.

 

To be clear that is not the individual countries of Europe and not those countries that tried to buy the vaccines months earlier. I refer to the EU institutions that insisted countries had to defer to them and now have egg on their face.

 

The Irish are a prime example of where AZ are trying to get them early supplies but the EU said no:

 

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/health/covid19-vaccine-oxford-ireland-brexit-19672792

The countries are trying to work together (on the whole); the bureaucracy that is the EU institution are desperately trying to make sure they don’t get the blame.

[cheezemonkhai]

As a side note, what an idiot the MP is:

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/michael-gove-covid-desmond-swayne-b1793932.html

[@Lee]

 

[@Lee]

A couple of threads and a blog post on the AZ/ EU debacle. The first is by an EU correspondent for the Irish times and the second is by a writer on law and policy who writes for the Financial Times. The blog piece is by the FT writer. 
Irish Times piece  https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354728336329744385.html
FT piece https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1354794099254112259.html
And his blog article https://davidallengreen.com/2021/01/what-can-be-worked-out-about-the-best-efforts-clause-in-the-astrazeneca-vaccine-supply-agreement/

[@Lee]

Branch Covidiots
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/hospital-incursions-by-covid-deniers-putting-lives-at-risk-say-leaders

[@Lee]

'Do you fear that you might be suspended from the Conservative party?'

'That would be thought crime'. 

He's off his rocker  
 

[@Lee]

Quote

I.n the dispute between the vaccine manufacturer Astra-Zeneca and the EU, the fronts eased somewhat on Thursday. As the FAZ learned from EU circles, Astra Zeneca boss Pascal Soriot agreed in a video conference with representatives of the member states on Wednesday evening that the supply contract from both sides should be published. Astra-Zeneca's in-house lawyers are currently working on a proposal as to which sensitive parts of the contract should be blacked out. These proposals should then be coordinated with the EU Commission. The aim is to publish this Friday, it was said in Brussels

https://www.faz.net/aktuell/wirtschaft/unternehmen/astra-zeneca-will-mehr-corona-impfstoff-liefern-17169846.html
Where it says 'cans' it means 'doses'. Dose = can dosen = cans in German and Doses in English translates as Dosen. Lots of context needed for words in German as their meaning can change depending on it 

[Ootohere]

So Nicola Sturgeon MSP has had enough of getting blamed for the slow delivery to the public of the vaccine.

 

She has instructed those officials that can to release the figures of the vaccines they are receiving into Scotland.

 

Michael Gove MP needs to buck up his ideas on the propaganda campaign he has running using what ever dirty tactics he can.

He is an amateur having spent too much time at Westminster and getting away with being a second rate politician that gets given jobs he can not do.

[moley]

Anyone else getting the feeling that the EU's spat with AstraZeneca is a distraction from the real issue. The AZ vaccine still not approved, but being blamed for the slow roll out. Germany won't use it for the over 65's (OK if your 64 & 11 months )  if it's approved. 

 

Not in short supply: Blame for EU’s rusty vaccine rollout

https://apnews.com/article/europe-netherlands-coronavirus-pandemic-coronavirus-vaccine-a6f071584cb44d1419ed666c0e690f6f

Quote

“We are dependent on what the European Commission says we can, and cannot, do. As a result, we are at the bottom of the list, it takes far too long,” Bieleveldt said of the executive arm of the EU, which, perhaps unfairly, has taken the brunt of criticism for a slow rollout in many of its member states. Onerous regulations and paperwork in some countries and poor planning in others have also contributed to the delay, as did a more deliberate authorization process for the shots.

 

[Ootohere]

We know the UK Government hedged its bets, or did each way betting and just gave money out willy nilly to those researching and developing vaccines and poured the public's money into it and pre ordred.

 

The EU which is a group of nations did not do the same.    Eventually the truth will out just how many Billions the UK has Spent to be a World Leader and getting ripped off left right and centre.

 

A member on here got so upset when i posted about the lack of the various age groups of those in the trials.

But then he is close to a Nurse and has been involved in Trading worth millions of Squids.   What do i know, i am just a pleb that reads things, digests, then looks into them and considers what the truth might be.

[shyVRS245]

1 minute ago, e-Roottoot said:

We know the UK Government hedged its bets, or did each way betting and just gave money out willy nilly to those researching and developing vaccines and poured the public's money into it and pre ordred.

 

The EU which is a group of nations did not do the same.    Eventually the truth will out just how many Billions the UK has Spent to be a World Leader and getting ripped off left right and centre.

 

A member on here got so upset when i posted about the lack of the various age groups of those in the trials.

But then he is close to a Nurse and has been involved in Trading worth millions of Squids.   What do i know, i am just a pleb that reads things, digests, then looks into them and considers what the truth might be.

George simple question would you rather be living somewhere in Europe and paying for Health Insurance and wondering how many months you are going to wait for your jag or where you are benefiting from the NHS and the wonderful volunteers helping at the vaccination centres plus the Army being mobilised would make most people appreciate everything is being done to protect the vulnerable members of society?

[cheezemonkhai]

I would say the cost of hedging on vaccines is probably a lot less than the cost of all the healthcare spending required for a few months, never mind the hit from economic shutdown.

[Ootohere]

@shyVRS245I live in Europe now, paid NI & taxes & am left wondering.

 

Boris takes my money and throws it the way of friends and family and never phones, writes or visits me.  

I would shake him by neck.

 

I paid the SNP some money and i get an email like anyone else that gives them money does.

Eventually i will get a vaccine, but personally i am not that bothered if i do.  The world is over populated.

 

 

Edited 28 January, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[gadgetman]

Some good news for those who have to do repeated tests 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55840547

[shyVRS245]

9 minutes ago, e-Roottoot said:

@shyVRS245I live in Europe now, paid NI & taxes & am left wondering.

 

Boris takes my money and throws it the way of friends and family and never phones, writes or visits me.  

I would shake him by neck.

 

I paid the SNP some money and i get an email like anyone else that gives them money does.

Eventually i will get a vaccine, but personally i am not that bothered if i do.  The world is over populated.

 

 

Nice to see her priority is securing your vote in the May Elections rather than getting the vaccinations done first. I really hope Scotland gets Independence and can join the EU and you all live happy ever after without the need to criticise the English for holding you back. That letter could have been written by William Wallace circa 1305AD.

[Ootohere]

There are 24 hours in a day.   What she wants to do in her free time is her business. 

The English have never held Scotland back, that would be just silly.

 

That is the attitude that some English take though.  They think that they are able to.

 Westminster is what holds Scotland back, governments that are elected with the majority of votes from the RoUK but not with the Majority of votes from Scotland.   That is MP's of many Nationalities. 

 

 Gove is Scottish, Blair & Brown & Darling are, there are many Tories, Lib Dems, Labour / Socialists and others that are Scottish and hold Scotland back.

Edited 28 January, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[@Lee]

47 minutes ago, gadgetman said:

Some good news for those who have to do repeated tests 

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-55840547

Probably a damned site easier than getting swabbed up yer jacksie.  
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/27/china-starts-using-anal-swabs-test-covid-high-infection-areas

[@Lee]

2 hours ago, moley said:

Anyone else getting the feeling that the EU's spat with AstraZeneca is a distraction from the real issue. The AZ vaccine still not approved, but being blamed for the slow roll out. Germany won't use it for the over 65's (OK if your 64 & 11 months )  if it's approved. 

So what do you believe the real issue is moley? 
I've said a few times that the UK ordered the Pfizer vaccine before approval yet it doesn't seem to sink in and remember that the UK rushed through the approval with emergency powers. The EU seem to have concentrated on making certain the AZ vaccine is effective and safe before approval. I said it before that this 'ner ner na ner ner' stuff about who vaccinated how many by when isn't helpful. Someone else mentioned wait and see what happens when other countries get the ball rolling.
I think the reluctance at the moment to not give the over sixty - fives the AZ jab is because there hasn't been a large enough study carried out yet in that demography. 
Its due to be approved tomorrow hopefully as I also mentioned a few times.

Edited 28 January, 2021 by Lee01

[shyVRS245]

Saw Gordon Brown on TV earlier today thought he was still milking the UN in some advisory/envoy job but looked like he was speaking from somewhere in Scotland. All those with an axe to grind are suddenly finding a critical voice to use. Should be a school where you can get a Degree in becoming a Professional Critic but it would probably be over subscribed.

[Ootohere]

http://gordonandsarahbrown.com

 

 

 

Edited 28 January, 2021 by e-Roottoot

[@Lee]

Quote

The public aren't flexing the UK's Covid rules – the rules are just too flexible

Stephen Reicher

It suits ministers to point the finger at ordinary people when the problem is their own failure to put proper measures in place

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/jan/28/public-uk-covid-rules-ministers