Fabia wiring diagram? (LOL, LOR)

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

I've downloaded a wiring diagram for my Fabia II but came across two versions - LOL and LOR

as shown in the attached pictures.

 

Does anyone know what the LOL, LOR mean?

 

 

 

 

 

[sepulchrave]

Left or right hand drive probably.

[Ootohere]

Maybe @Wino or @UrbanPanzerknows.

No idea,  are they Left Hand Drive or Right Hand Drive.

[Ootohere]

@JohnnyJohnBoyThey can maybe help with the fault that has you checking a wiring diagram, if you post what it is that you have happening.

[Breezy_Pete]

Yep, as sep says. L0L = LHD, the other the other.

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

Ok...that's grand...many thanks. I can get rid of the LOL one then.

 

I'm trying to get to the bottom an issue with my oil level/temp sensor (G266) where the oil temperature displayed

suddenly jumps about on odd ocassions, normally when I put my foot down a bit. It gives reasonable readings apart from that. 

 

I managed to catch it on the attached video (noisy because windows were open).

 

It gives fault codes 

01 Engine - P159D00 - Oil Level Thermal Sensor Implausible signal
            Intermittent

 

17 Dashboard - B104129 - Oil Level Thermal Sensor Implausible signal
            Intermittent
            
I replaced the sensor when I did an oil change a few days ago, cleared the fault codes but they came back.

 

I am now thinking it is most likely to be a loose/damaged wire/connector somewhere and I was hasty to change the sensor.

 

 

 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

12 hours ago, JohnnyJohnBoy said:

I am now thinking it is most likely to be a loose/damaged wire/connector somewhere and I was hasty to change the sensor

 

Looks like it.

So check the fuse first, not for blown-ness but for connection dirtiness or looseness. Then 3-way connector at  the sensor, then you've got the two engine bay connections at the 14-way connector, pins 11, 12.

Lastly the green 32-way connector onto the dash PCB.  On earlier cars (mk1 era) I would've probably gone there first, but surely they must have sorted out making reliable solder joints there by 2011? 

 

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

Thanks @Wino- that's a much appreciated point in the right directoin.

 

I'll get out the diagrams I've downloaded so far to help.

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

 

 

 

Managed an hour routing about today but no solution as yet...my approach was as follows, guided by Wino's suggestions

 

Checked fuse (SB3) for dirty contacts looseness -- all seems ok

 

I connected to my OBD11 app and went to live data from the enginge ECU to display both oil level and temperature

 

Ignition on, engine off

 

I then wiggled and pulled the following while monitoring the live data on OBD11

 

(I'm not entirely sure this is a valid way to look for a dodgy connection/wire?)

 

---- the fuse SB3

---- the sensor connector

--- the 14 pin connector in the engine bay.

 

I'm still not confident I understand where each wire is going, so will keep at it

I've not checked anything on the dash connector as yet (not idea how to get to it) and 

I've not managed to find the physical earth connections yet either

 

I'll hopefully get more time to take another look tomorrow..

 

 

 

Edited 28 June, 2021 by JohnnyJohnBoy

[UrbanPanzer]

Out of interest, did you fit a genuine part for the sensor, or I hate to say it was it a cheap pattern part ?

 

[Breezy_Pete]

On mk1 the instrument cluster is pretty easy to remove, and then the circuit board pretty easy to remove from the plastic housing. Once you have the board out, you can examine the solder connections of the green connector by lifting the edge of the bezel. 

 

(But..) You may be able to provoke misbehaviour by just waggling the loom connection to this green plug while everything's still connected and engine running, after loosening the cluster enough to get to the connector.  You might even be able to reach up to it from below with everything still in place, not sure. 

 

The sensor earth connects via a splice within the loom where a few earths join up.

 

Edited 29 June, 2021 by Wino

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

26 minutes ago, UrbanPanzer said:

Out of interest, did you fit a genuine part for the sensor, or I hate to say it was it a cheap pattern part ?

 

 

Genuine part purchased from local Skoda dealer - £120 nearly.

 

Edited 29 June, 2021 by JohnnyJohnBoy

[UrbanPanzer]

I would of thought that a dodgy solder joint would give a "non" reading then a reading.....as opposed to a fluctuation in readings ?

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

1 hour ago, Wino said:

On mk1 the instrument cluster is pretty easy to remove, and then the circuit board pretty easy to remove from the plastic housing. Once you have the board out, you can examine the solder connections of the green connector by lifting the edge of the bezel. 

 

(But..) You may be able to provoke misbehaviour by just waggling the loom connection to this green plug while everything's still connected and engine running, after loosening the cluster enough to get to the connector.  You might even be able to reach up to it from below with everything still in place, not sure. 

 

The sensor earth connects via a splice within the loom where a few earths join up.

 

 

Thanks for that @Wino

 

Maybe I've been doing it wrong but I've been trying to provoke the fault with the ignition on but engine off.

Interestingly, OBD11 will give me live data for the oil temp for the cold engine reporting a reasonable figure of 15-16 deg. C. even though the maxidot display wil only show  "---"  until the temp reaches 50 deg. C. I don't know whether I am placing too much trust in the live data I'm getting from OBD11?

 

I manged to get the instrument cluster out pretty easily and wiggled and jiggled the wires and connector going in the back without any success.

I didn't even think about going further and getting inside the housing to the circuit board so maybe  that will be the next step.

 

I took it out for a drive and within a short time was able to get the fault to occur when putting my foot down.

 

One thing I did notice was the wires from the sensor run up  and between the engine block and the supercharger(?) so I'm wondering if it might be something to do with the supercharger doing it's boost thing?

 

 

 

PS: I spent ages trying to figure out where the earth cable went because I didn't understand that it would be joined to other eaths and wrapped up in one of those looms and not easily accessible. 

Edited 29 June, 2021 by JohnnyJohnBoy

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

9 minutes ago, UrbanPanzer said:

I would of thought that a dodgy solder joint would give a "non" reading then a reading.....as opposed to a fluctuation in readings ?

 

Yeah...I'm getting to think that it is not a random loose or dogdy connection but something very specific and consistent that is causing it. But it's probably worth checking out the circuit board connector to be sure.

[UrbanPanzer]

the earth is just connected / spliced in with loads of others into the engine harness,

 

It is "odd" that acceleration causes it..................Im assuming the wiring / plug is not under tension and is potentially "pulled" tighter as the engine twists rearwards when you accelerate hard.

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

13 minutes ago, UrbanPanzer said:

the earth is just connected / spliced in with loads of others into the engine harness,

 

It is "odd" that acceleration causes it..................Im assuming the wiring / plug is not under tension and is potentially "pulled" tighter as the engine twists rearwards when you accelerate hard.

 

I don't think it is. I'll add it to my list of things to double check.

 

I'm thinking I might try to get some live data recorded as it happens, maybe engine rpm, speed, load, oil temp etc to see if it happens just in specific circumstances. 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

I think the sensor will give continuous data whenever ignition is on, but the cluster doesn't display what it reads until it feels like it (>50C). 

The two numbers, temperature and level are sent down that single wire to the cluster (not engine ECU) as a data stream, if I remember right, Level can be seen in VCDS as well as temperature, via Instrument cluster (17) measuring blocks, which might give more/relevant info about the origin of the misreadings.

There may well be some rolling averaging of the numbers to reduce noise in the data, which might explain dodgy numbers if/when the occasional dropout occurs. 

 

If you do scrutinise solder joints and see nothing obvious, reflow the relevant connection anyway, if you have an iron and some thinnish solder; it can be hard to spot cracks sometimes. 

 

Having said all that, the engine bay is a much more extreme environment for wiring, and electrics/'tronics generally, so I wouldn't be surprised if the glitch was something going on in there; but not sure what.

Edited 30 June, 2021 by Wino

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

 

 

12 hours ago, Wino said:

I think the sensor will give continuous data whenever ignition is on, but the cluster doesn't display what it reads until it feels like it (>50C). 

The two numbers, temperature and level are sent down that single wire to the cluster (not engine ECU) as a data stream, if I remember right, Level can be seen in VCDS as well as temperature, via Instrument cluster (17) measuring blocks, which might give more/relevant info about the origin of the misreadings.

 

Yes, there is a nice attachment describing the basic operation of the sensor in another thread from last year (). It does seem that both the oil temp and level are digitally coded into a pulse-width modulated signal sent over the one signal wire.....

 

...which makes the following very odd indeed...

 

I got some live data from OBD11 of a few variables as the anomaly happened and put it on the graph below. However, this is data from the engine control unit (01) rather than the instrument panel (17) as I couldn't  find engine speed as an output option on (17). I assume (01) gets it from (17) via CANBUS or something?

 

Engine rpm scale on the left axis....all others on the right axis

 

Both dropouts in reported oil temp coincide with me putting my foot down - the first drop goes down to a min reading of -35 deg. C , the second drop goes down to about 10 deg. C.....both physically unlikely 

 

....BUT given that both the oil temp and level are coded on the same signal wire it's odd that the oil fill level remains pretty constant - maybe it's being averaged out or doesn't get sampled very often?

 

Could it be the brand new sensor is also dodgy? Unlikely, surely?

 

 

12 hours ago, Wino said:

If you do scrutinise solder joints and see nothing obvious, reflow the relevant connection anyway, if you have an iron and some thinnish solder; it can be hard to spot cracks sometimes. 

 

Ok...I do have an iron but am a bit nervous about destroying something if I try this.

 

 

 

Fabia oil temp readings (1).pdf

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

I forgot to add a link to the other thread I mentioned above so will just attachment it here - might be useful for someone else in the future.

 

 

 

[Breezy_Pete]

Nice graph, will have to think about what it may tell us.

 

RPM signal will be generated within the engine ECU from crank sensor signal, and communicated to the Instruments via CAN, rather than t'other way round, I believe. Not that that helps particularly.

I'll have another look at wiring diagram tomorrow, if I have time. Tempting to think it's a physical thing to do with engine movement and its effect on a loom wire rubbing on something (he says speculating wildly...).

Oil level trace is suspiciously flat, must be some very heavy averaging, especially if the glitch is affecting that too. It would make sense for that to be smoothed loads though, I suppose.

I'll do an oil level log on my way to work tomorrow and see what that looks like on my Polo.

 

 

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

 

 

1 hour ago, Wino said:

Oil level tre is suspiciously flat, must be some very heavy averaging, especially if the glitch is affecting that too. It would make sense for that to be smoothed loads though, I suppose.

 

Ah...I've zoomed in a lot on this in the graph below and it shows quite clearly two flat spots at same time as the oil temp drops.

 

 

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

I've made no progress with this as yet but have been messing about with graphs so thought I'd post another one showing the normed load along with reported oil temp. I've no proper understanding of what normed load is but the dropout in oil temp correlates quite well with it nearing maxium.....

 

 

 

Am a bit stumped now because apart from taking the instrment panel circuit board out of its plastic housing and checking connections in there I can't really think what else to do. I can't understand if it's possble to get a good eyeball on the wires without taking loads of stuff off the engine and unwrapping wiring looms..something I don't really have the confidence to do.

 

Oh..and in the interest of full disclosoure...OBD 11 also gives the following fault codes related to the AC not working. It currently has no refridgerant in it - came like that when I got it 2 months ago - just incase they could be relevant

 

01 - Engine

U102500 - A/C Control Module - Read out DTC

 

08- Air conditioning

00819 - High Pressure sensor - lower limit not reached

 

I'll keep scratching my head and come back if I have a break through

 

[Breezy_Pete]

I guess that'll be engine load, so closely correlated with fast-increasing rpm as per previous graphs (and so also with potential engine reaction movement).

 

I did do a log to compare but it doesn't inform much. Oil level is a bit more dynamic, but it's a very different engine from another decade.

Coolant temp in blue, oil temp in orange, oil level in grey.  Approx 10 minute trip from cold.

 

 

I feel sure the A/C fault isn't relevant, that sensor will generally tell you that there's not enough cool juice to try running the system.

 

I guess wait and see if it gets worse/glitchier?

The cluster wiring may also move about in response to brisk acceleration, but it seems like a stretch of the imagination that that would be the only times you see the glitching if it were a dodgy solder joint.

 

Apart from catching your eye, I can't see it causing any issues.

 

[JohnnyJohnBoy]

@Wino many thanks for all your help with this. 

 

As you say it doesn't seem to be causing any issues ATM so I will just monitor it for now and see if anything changes. 

 

I'll report back if anything else happens with it.